Is my therapist whacked?

In article said:

About a year ago I ran 20 miles and the next day I went
for a fast 60 miles on the bike. I shouldn't have. I got a
pain behind my left knee on the upper half of the knee. I
took a week off and then went to see the Physical
Therapist. He said I was over pronating and made me some
orthotics. I took some months off from running and rode
some easy miles on the bike. Last December I started to
run again. I kept getting a real tight muscle on the
outside of my right shin that usually loosened up after a
couple of miles. A few weeks ago after a half mile, I took
my shoes off and ran in the grass for two miles and the
pain went away almost immediately. Furthermore, After an
easy 5k I took off my shoes and got my feet wet and ran
about 100 feet on the concrete to look at the pattern that
my wet feet would make. I saw no collapse of the arch (
mine are high ) that I would expect from being over
pronated. Is my logic good? Has my therapist misdiagnosed
my condition?

You're not going to run the same way barefoot on concrete as
you do in shoes. In particular, your heel will probably not
even contact the ground, so your footprints aren't going to
tell you whether or not your arch collapsed.

I'd suggest you ask your therapist about your shin problems.
Could be a problem with your orthotics or footwear. Or any
number of other things.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Has my therapist misdiagnosed my condition?

Maybe get a second opinion.

Gleshna - Multi-Thousandaire

DA LAKES: Da Lake Tube:
greatlakesurfing.compoint.jpgOpen ↗ Da
new Lake Movie: unsalted.tvunsalted.tvOpen ↗ Da Bears ???????

BryanRL said:

About a year ago I ran 20 miles and the next day I went
for a fast 60 miles on the bike. I shouldn't have. I got a
pain behind my left knee on the upper half of the knee. I
took a week off and then went to see the Physical
Therapist. He said I was over pronating and made me some
orthotics. I took some months off from running and rode
some easy miles on the bike. Last December I started to
run again. I kept getting a real tight muscle on the
outside of my right shin that usually loosened up after a
couple of miles. A few weeks ago after a half mile, I took
my shoes off and ran in the grass for two miles and the
pain went away almost immediately. Furthermore, After an
easy 5k I took off my shoes and got my feet wet and ran
about 100 feet on the concrete to look at the pattern that
my wet feet would make. I saw no collapse of the arch (
mine are high ) that I would expect from being over
pronated. Is my logic good? Has my therapist misdiagnosed
my condition?

Not necessarily. "Tight muscle on outside of shin" could be
just that - maybe needs loosening or stretching or perhaps
strengthening. All your barefoot running is after warming up
with shoes on. Also, your overpronation may be later in the
gait cycle. If your arch is really high, it may not flatten
enough to show in a wet foot print while running. Otherwise,
you would constantly feel the arch in a shoe. There's
probably some flattening to be sure.

FWIW, I have high arches and severely overpronate - both PT
and computer analysis show it - although both analyzed it
while I was walking, which is more heel oriented than I run.
The roll is more when my toes are almost starting to push
off. More traditional overpronation more often associated
with flat feet, I believe, occurs more at the heel. I needed
shoes with torsional control, not the control found in some
heels. I use orthotics made my a previous podiatrist who
didn't look at my gait (at least not that I remember) -
they're only 3/4 length rather than the full length that my
present PT things would be more suitable. However, he
decided not to change them to see if the exercises he gave
me for foot/ankle strengthening worked. I still have some
residual issues that I'm not completely convinced are
resolved, but I haven't had the problems recently that I
used to have - *but* I have to stay on top of my exercises
and stretching.

I generally don't run barefoot most years (Alaska has
minimal season for barefoot running most years and I'm in
field a lot of that time), but do some drills barefoot in my
lawn. I started these when I was having some AT problems
reoccur about 2 yr ago. They strengthened my foot and helped
convince me that part of my problem was the *shoes*. My PT
suggested switching to Brooks Adrenaline for roads /
Trespass for trails. I used Trespass for trails but
continued to use my old shoes for around the office and
continued to have some foot problems when standing on
concrete. This spring I finally got some Adrenalines - just
for around the office. I don't know if it's coincidence or
not, but some of the remaining pain has cleared up since.

So based on my experience, I'm inclined to blame shoes.

So, no, I don't think there's enough in your comments to
suggest your therapist misdiagnosed your condition. It's
possible. But not based on your comments and my minimal
experience. I'm not a doctor, etc.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

A jogger asking if his logic is good. That's funny.

"BryanRL" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

About a year ago I ran 20 miles and the next day I went
for a fast 60 miles on the bike. I shouldn't have. I got a
pain behind my left knee

Your knee pain is not typical for cycling and could be
related to bike fit or technique. Using too high a gear for
your level of fitness could cause knee pain. Another
technique issues is movement of the knee side-to-side rather
than up-and-down.

The fit issues that could cause knee pain include saddle
position, cleat position (assuming you are using "clipless"
pedals), and crank length. You should consider a
professional bike fitting. Perhaps your PT is qualified to
fit you; if not, he/she should be able to point you in the
right direction.

Quoted message said:

on the upper half of the knee. I took a week off and then
went to see the Physical Therapist. He said I was over
pronating and made me some orthotics. I took some months
off from running and rode some easy miles on the bike.
Last December I started to run again. I kept getting a
real tight muscle on the outside of my right shin that
usually loosened up after a couple of miles.

Are you sure this is related to your knee trouble? I will
defer to the more knowledgable runners on this issue.

Matthew