Is this normal ?

thats when you get your second wind,your body has got used to the fact
that your mine wasnt going to let it stop,The next step you will get to
is what i call LA LA land,
The Alabama Tri-man

http://www.tri-mansworldmailboxofficesupply.com/index.html

Dontwalk said:

It seams when i run or exercise i peak at 45 minutes and then anything after
that my heart rate slows down a bit and everything gets easier and i feal
relaxed.

Is this something normal?

At 40 minutes, or about 4 miles you get full blood flow to your legs.
Before that point it's not optimum flow.

"Russian Bear" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dontwalk said:

It seams when i run or exercise i peak at 45 minutes and then anything
after
that my heart rate slows down a bit and everything gets easier and i feal
relaxed.

Is this something normal?

At 40 minutes, or about 4 miles you get full blood flow to your legs.
Before that point it's not optimum flow.

interesting stuff, thanks for that. Am is still getting the same benefit and
just not feeling like im doing as much or at the point when i start to feel
like this should i up my effort?

KAREN

"CAROL HEIMLICH PILLOWS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

KAREN

???????

At 40 minutes, or about 4 miles you get full blood flow to your legs.
Before that point it's not optimum flow.
~ Russain Bear

If you cycle for 30 min
you get good blood flow.

"Dontwalk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Russian Bear" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:29:22 GMT, "Dontwalk" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

It seams when i run or exercise i peak at 45 minutes and then
anything after
that my heart rate slows down a bit and everything gets easier and i
feal
relaxed.

Is this something normal?

At 40 minutes, or about 4 miles you get full blood flow to your legs.
Before that point it's not optimum flow.

I don't know if it takes a full 4 miles but go nice and easy at first
and let your system(heart and legs) warm up. Some people like to walk a
mile or so before they run. I prefer to run just hair faster than walk
and ever so slowly pick up the pace staying within my aerobic and muscle
comfort zone.

-DF

I dunno that "blood flow" explains what's going on - if had no
circulation in your legs, I'd think you'd have bigger problems than a
mildly elevated heart rate and a touch of awkwardness when running.

That figure of 40 or 45 minutes has been noted before. This post also
offers another theory on what's behind this warmup period:
http://tinyurl.com/bp9fb

Doug Freese said:

"Dontwalk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Russian Bear" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat, 04 Feb 2006 15:29:22 GMT, "Dontwalk" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>It seams when i run or exercise i peak at 45 minutes and then
>anything after
>that my heart rate slows down a bit and everything gets easier and i
>feal
>relaxed.
>
>Is this something normal?

At 40 minutes, or about 4 miles you get full blood flow to your legs.
Before that point it's not optimum flow.

And do you have a medical cite to support this?
Just what is "full blood flow" ? If you have a
pulse plus capillary refill below the femoral,
you have "full blood flow." Less than full
blood flow equals a medical condition otherwise
known as shock...

Quoted message said:

I don't know if it takes a full 4 miles but go nice and easy at first
and let your system(heart and legs) warm up. Some people like to walk a
mile or so before they run. I prefer to run just hair faster than walk
and ever so slowly pick up the pace staying within my aerobic and muscle
comfort zone.

Not sure I'd call it a "warm up" since I warm
up before I begin running (about a miles worth...)
But it does sometimes seem to take a couple of
miles to get into a "groove." Don't know the exact
physiology but I think "comfort zone" is a good
description.

I'd say it's just a normal physiological (conscious
or unconscious) adjustment of one's pace vs. heart
rate. I tend to run faster at first, slow down, then
readjust. Has nothing to do with blood flow, as blood
flow = heart rate (barring arterial obstructions.)

So yeah, I'd say normal...OTOH I'd think going from
1 mile to 8 miles in 6 mos. is a bit too fast.

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure I'd call it a "warm up" since I warm
up before I begin running (about a miles worth...)
But it does sometimes seem to take a couple of
miles to get into a "groove." Don't know the exact
physiology but I think "comfort zone" is a good
description.

If we run every day it's very common for our legs to be a little stiff
and it takes time to loosen up. It's often suggested that one we walk
or slow jog, stretch and then run.

Quoted message said:

I tend to run faster at first, slow down, then
readjust. Has nothing to do with blood flow, as blood
flow = heart rate (barring arterial obstructions.)

The heart is a muscle and also needs time to start working. IMO starting
out fast and then slowing is the wrong way to warm up. At least the most
inefficient.

-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Tom Phillips" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not sure I'd call it a "warm up" since I warm
up before I begin running (about a miles worth...)
But it does sometimes seem to take a couple of
miles to get into a "groove." Don't know the exact
physiology but I think "comfort zone" is a good
description.

If we run every day it's very common for our legs to be a little stiff
and it takes time to loosen up. It's often suggested that one we walk
or slow jog, stretch and then run.

Well, I self massage, then stretch, then jog
before every run. But I'm generally looser
when I run everyday than not. I only get stiff
when I don't run...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I tend to run faster at first, slow down, then
readjust. Has nothing to do with blood flow, as blood
flow = heart rate (barring arterial obstructions.)

The heart is a muscle and also needs time to start working. IMO starting
out fast and then slowing is the wrong way to warm up. At least the most
inefficient.

My heart starts warming up the moment I start
stretching and then jogging. The fact is most
people need more O2 (i.e., breath heavier) the
first mile until their "second wind" stage is
reached. Doesn't seem to matter if one is
running or walking. No matter the "warm up,"
when I start actual aerobic activity my pace,
including breathing pace, plus heart rate seems
to need a bit of time to adjust or reach that
"comfort zone." Ain't no right or wrong about it,
just my bod telling me what to do...

My "fast" start comes _after_ my warm up. I.e.,
1) massage/stretch and 2) the first mile. By
the second mile I usually have found 2nd wind.

"Dontwalk" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Ive been running for about 6 months now, started doing 1 mile 3 times a
week, then built it up to 2 miles 4 times a week and then 4 miles 3 times
a week, did my first 8 mile run last week(took me 1 hour 20 minutes),
fealt great and it was easy!!

It takes about 35-40 minutes for the fat-burning system to fully warm up.
Before that comes on-line, you're burning mostly glycogen.

When you're burning whatever mixture of fat + glycogen is optimal for your
pace, you feel "warmed up". All energy systems are on line. It takes me
anywhere from 30-40 minutes to get that second wind.

Here's a quote from a fitness website, which agrees with what I've read from
various sources over the years:
=================================================================
For the first 20 minutes you exercise in your aerobic zone, you are burning
about 80% carbohydrates and 20% fat.
For the next 20 minutes, you are burning about 50% carbs and 50% fat.

So what happens if you start exercising into the above 40 minute range?

A reversal. You are now burning about 20% carbs and about 80% fat.

================================================================

I love the way everyone has their own pet theory to
advance to explain the OPs feelings. We have no facts
to work with. Starting pace? 45 minute pace?
any hills involved?

I bet that the OP starts out too fast, warms up a bit and
settles into an aerobic pace. The clue is that the HR
slows down (altho how this was measured isn't said).
How likely is it that someone maintaining a given pace
will experience lower heart rate as they continue?
....thehick

"thehick" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I love the way everyone has their own pet theory to
advance to explain the OPs feelings. We have no facts
to work with. Starting pace? 45 minute pace?
any hills involved?

I bet that the OP starts out too fast, warms up a bit and
settles into an aerobic pace. The clue is that the HR
slows down (altho how this was measured isn't said).
How likely is it that someone maintaining a given pace
will experience lower heart rate as they continue?
...thehick

Hi, OP here, the first 1 mile is all downhill, i treid to pace myslf the
same for the whole run, after the first mile its all on the flatt for the
next 6 miles, then the final mile has a couple of gradual hills.There wasnt
really any part of the 8 miles that i ran too fast, i did the exact 8 miles
in 1 hour 27 minutes.
I didnt measure my heart rate (i will use my chest moitor the next time i do
it and record it at every 10 mins maybe) i could just feal that my heart
rate had slowed, i stopped perspiring as much and fealt kinda on a high.

Before i ran the route i drove it in the car to find the exact distance(its
all road running) and made a point of nothing the half way point, i was
about 20 seconds (quicker) when i hit the half way point.

thanks again for the info

Tom Phillips said:

My "fast" start comes _after_ my warm up. I.e.,
1) massage/stretch and 2) the first mile. By
the second mile I usually have found 2nd wind.

Just tacking this on here since it seems the logical subthread, not
necessarily a direct reply to this.

On p. 91 in Martin and Coe, they have a diagram showing V(dot)O2 and
lactate as function of pace where a male elite runner warmed up, then
started running from a stop at increasingly fast paces until he reached
maximum work tolerance. I didn't see a protocol for how the pace was
increased, but the test was on the order of 20 min, so obviously not
what OP was describing, but may be what Doug and Tom are talking about.

Initially, when the runner starts running - even after being warmed up -
it's mostly anaerobic process, until aerobic processes get up to speed.
There's usually a lag between oxygen demands of muscles and the body's
ability to deliver it.

My anecdotal thought is that it takes me maybe 20-30 min to get into the
swing of things for a workout. Part of it is getting the running muscles
clicking on all cylinders (walking for warmup doesn't help this), part
is getting to the part of trail where I want to start "working" (ie.
past dog-walker post holes, past farm vehicle ruts, to single track or
whatever), and part maybe mental.

But when it's subzero F, my hr is usually elevated just from getting the
layers on, some indoor stretching, etc. I'll walk a little, but hr is
still a little messed up for a while. I may need to start a little fast
just to get the internal heaters fired up, then settle into something a
little more realistic. If I loose too much heat to start, I'll never get
my leg muscles warmed up again. (I think I've got a heavier pair of
fleece tights that I wore 3 or 4 years ago when it was cold, but haven't
been able to find them.)

Dot

--
Just wing it, it's an adventure; don't think about strategy.
~Julie Udchachon, in reference to the upcoming Susitna 100 2006

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Dontwalk wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Ive been running for about 6 months now, started doing 1 mile 3 times a
week, then built it up to 2 miles 4 times a week and then 4 miles 3 times a
week, did my first 8 mile run last week(took me 1 hour 20 minutes), fealt
great and it was easy!!

Quoted message said:

It seams when i run or exercise i peak at 45 minutes and then anything after
that my heart rate slows down a bit and everything gets easier and i feal
relaxed.

Quoted message said:

Is this something normal?

I've read and considered lots of responses in this thread; I'll throw in
a point I haven't seen here yet:

ISTM there is a change in the body's oxygen processing somewhere around
the second or third mile; in that range I begin to feel more relaxed, my
pace smooths out, and I begin to feel I could go on for a long time. I
typically have a similar point around seven or eight miles*, with less
physical change but a stronger feeling of being able to continue
smoothly and strongly. Unfortunately, this has always proven not to be
the case somewhere out around 13 - 17 miles. :-)

* A distance I haven't done for a long time now - age marches on.
--
Don Kirkman

Dot said:

Tom Phillips said:

My "fast" start comes _after_ my warm up. I.e.,
1) massage/stretch and 2) the first mile. By
the second mile I usually have found 2nd wind.

Just tacking this on here since it seems the logical subthread, not
necessarily a direct reply to this.

On p. 91 in Martin and Coe, they have a diagram showing V(dot)O2 and
lactate as function of pace where a male elite runner warmed up, then
started running from a stop at increasingly fast paces until he reached
maximum work tolerance. I didn't see a protocol for how the pace was
increased, but the test was on the order of 20 min, so obviously not
what OP was describing, but may be what Doug and Tom are talking about.

Initially, when the runner starts running - even after being warmed up -
it's mostly anaerobic process, until aerobic processes get up to speed.
There's usually a lag between oxygen demands of muscles and the body's
ability to deliver it.

Technical definition accepted 😉

Quoted message said:

My anecdotal thought is that it takes me maybe 20-30 min to get into the
swing of things for a workout. Part of it is getting the running muscles
clicking on all cylinders (walking for warmup doesn't help this), part
is getting to the part of trail where I want to start "working" (ie.
past dog-walker post holes, past farm vehicle ruts, to single track or
whatever), and part maybe mental.

But when it's subzero F, my hr is usually elevated just from getting the
layers on, some indoor stretching, etc. I'll walk a little, but hr is
still a little messed up for a while. I may need to start a little fast
just to get the internal heaters fired up, then settle into something a
little more realistic. If I loose too much heat to start, I'll never get
my leg muscles warmed up again. (I think I've got a heavier pair of
fleece tights that I wore 3 or 4 years ago when it was cold, but haven't
been able to find them.)

Are you talking a single fleece layer? Wouldn't
think you'd need a heavy pair, but would rather
layer. I'd probably use 2 inner layer and a
baggier outer wind shell to help trap air.

Tom Phillips said:

Dot said:

But when it's subzero F, my hr is usually elevated just from getting the
layers on, some indoor stretching, etc. I'll walk a little, but hr is
still a little messed up for a while. I may need to start a little fast
just to get the internal heaters fired up, then settle into something a
little more realistic. If I loose too much heat to start, I'll never get
my leg muscles warmed up again. (I think I've got a heavier pair of
fleece tights that I wore 3 or 4 years ago when it was cold, but haven't
been able to find them.)

Are you talking a single fleece layer? Wouldn't
think you'd need a heavy pair, but would rather
layer. I'd probably use 2 inner layer and a
baggier outer wind shell to help trap air.

I'm using either a Sierra Designs light fleece (<100 weight, but don't
think it's Malden Mills) or Varitherm (thermalite?) (Duofold) under
Sporthill XC pants under windpants. Without the windpants, I was
definitely in negative heat balance in my legs. The AWOL pair of tights
is just a little heavier and bulkier (about same as 100 fleece weight,
and cut looser) and why I avoid them unless needed, which hasn't been
for a few years.

With the wind pants, I'm ok in the legs under this year's conditions
(say -5F for 2 hrs), but having trouble with cold feet at -5 to -10F if
running *in* snow (vs on top packed trail) for say, 1-1.5 hr. The next
time I'm in REI (or other Anchorage stores), I'm going to look at some
of the shoe covers like they use for biking or skiing. My insulated
booties are getting very chewed up at this point. And ultimately, may
consider chemical foot warmers (but I really don't like that approach vs
something passive). FWIW, I view the legs as long pipes that loose heat.
I've been trying to keep legs warm to be sure heat works it's way down
to feet.

IOW, I'm ok for short runs near 0F, but if I were to do a longer run,
say 3-4 hrs or more at -10F (maybe -5F), I'd definitely be in trouble.

Dot

--
Just wing it, it's an adventure; don't think about strategy.
~Julie Udchachon, in reference to the upcoming Susitna 2006