Jason Donald progression

Bret said:

Did a little research on this ex-runner. Knowing that he's from Winter
Park, I guessed that his early race results would show up at the local
MTB race series and I was right:

2003 - 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):http://tinyurl.com/393lmehttp://tinyurl.com/38tbvm

2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt

2005 March - Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h

2005 April  - Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtqhttp://tinyurl.com/2stqluhttp://tinyurl.com/2ougn9

2005 June - 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage racehttp://tinyurl.com/3dhazbhttp://tinyurl.com/39ansv

2005 July - Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m

2006 - 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium championhttp://tinyurl.com/2ku24ehttp://tinyurl.com/2pejtf

2007 - 2nd Tour of CA prologue

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Bret

Did he have an early start time in all those events, too?

Just askin',
Duped

Bret said:

Did a little research on this ex-runner. Knowing that he's from Winter
Park, I guessed that his early race results would show up at the local
MTB race series and I was right:

2003 - 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):http://tinyurl.com/393lmehttp://tinyurl.com/38tbvm

2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt

2005 March - Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h

2005 April - Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtqhttp://tinyurl.com/2stqluhttp://tinyurl.com/2ougn9

2005 June - 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage racehttp://tinyurl.com/3dhazbhttp://tinyurl.com/39ansv

2005 July - Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m

2006 - 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium championhttp://tinyurl.com/2ku24ehttp://tinyurl.com/2pejtf

2007 - 2nd Tour of CA prologue

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Bret

What you also have is a rider on a team which will be perhaps the most
closely scruitinised in the history of the sport, and voluntarily so.
It's easy to make insinuations but you are conveniently forgetting
this point...

need more sun said:

On Feb 20, 6:52 am, "Bret" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Bret

What you also have is a rider on a team which will be perhaps the most
closely scruitinised in the history of the sport, and voluntarily so.
It's easy to make insinuations but you are conveniently forgetting
this point...

What insinuations? I read Bret's comments and thought, "Interesting --
this guy could go far in this race. But maybe the longer TT will hurt
him."
--
JT
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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On Feb 20, 4:54 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 20 Feb 2007 03:50:06 -0800, "need more sun"

Quoted message said:

Bret said:

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bret

Quoted message said:

What you also have is a rider on a team which will be perhaps the most
closely scruitinised in the history of the sport, and voluntarily so.
It's easy to make insinuations but you are conveniently forgetting
this point...

What insinuations? I read Bret's comments and thought, "Interesting --
this guy could go far in this race. But maybe the longer TT will hurt
him."
--
JT

You're right, I made no insinuation. I think Donald is still
developing and will be somone to watch. The TT was all the more
remarkable considering the lack of experience.

Bret

Bret said:

Did a little research on this ex-runner. Knowing that he's from Winter
Park, I guessed that his early race results would show up at the local
MTB race series and I was right:

2003 - 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):
http://tinyurl.com/393lme
http://tinyurl.com/38tbvm

2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):
http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt

2005 March - Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:
http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h

2005 April - Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:
http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtq
http://tinyurl.com/2stqlu
http://tinyurl.com/2ougn9

2005 June - 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage race
http://tinyurl.com/3dhazb
http://tinyurl.com/39ansv

2005 July - Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:
http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7
http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m

2006 - 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium champion
http://tinyurl.com/2ku24e
http://tinyurl.com/2pejtf

2007 - 2nd Tour of CA prologue

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Thanks for posting his "history," I was wondering about it, and to what
extent he really "came out of nowhere".

Mark J.

need more sun said:

Bret said:

Did a little research on this ex-runner. Knowing that he's from Winter
Park, I guessed that his early race results would show up at the local
MTB race series and I was right:

Quoted message said:

2003 - 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):http://tinyurl.com/393lmehttp://tinyurl.com/38tbvm

Quoted message said:

2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt

Quoted message said:

2005 March - Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h

Quoted message said:

2005 April - Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtqhttp://tinyurl.com/2stqluhttp://tinyurl.com/...

Quoted message said:

2005 June - 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage racehttp://tinyurl.com/3dhazbhttp://tinyurl.com/39ansv

Quoted message said:

2005 July - Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m

Quoted message said:

2006 - 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium championhttp://tinyurl.com/2ku24ehttp://tinyurl.com/2pejtf

Quoted message said:

2007 - 2nd Tour of CA prologue

Quoted message said:

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Quoted message said:

Bret

What you also have is a rider on a team which will be perhaps the most
closely scruitinised in the history of the sport, and voluntarily so.
It's easy to make insinuations but you are conveniently forgetting
this point...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you knew Bret, you'd know he wasn't insinuating anything, he was
bragging about the guy. Lot's of folks here in CO are quite proud of
his accomplishments and are really pulling for him.

Frankly, I think it's great he's with Vaughter's team this year, but I
bet he won't be with them for too many seasons. The guy's a true
physical talent who apparently knows what it's like to win.

Unless he chooses otherwise, I see him in Europe within a year or two.

Scott

need more sun said:

Bret said:

Did a little research on this ex-runner. Knowing that he's from Winter
Park, I guessed that his early race results would show up at the local
MTB race series and I was right:

Quoted message said:

2003 - 1st and 2nd at two races in the Winter Park MTB series (Expert
19-24):http://tinyurl.com/393lmehttp://tinyurl.com/38tbvm

Quoted message said:

2004 2nd at one race in the Winter Park MTB series (Pro Men):http://tinyurl.com/2mz2vt

Quoted message said:

2005 March - Wins the first two Cat 4 (ACA entry level) training
races:http://tinyurl.com/2j7m5h

Quoted message said:

2005 April - Wins all three Cat 3 races that he enters then disapears
until June:http://tinyurl.com/2wlqtqhttp://tinyurl.com/2stqluhttp://tinyurl.com/...

Quoted message said:

2005 June - 6th in his first P,1,2 criterium. then no worse that 4th
in three stages of first P,1,2 stage racehttp://tinyurl.com/3dhazbhttp://tinyurl.com/39ansv

Quoted message said:

2005 July - Wins first P,1,2 hill climb and then 5th at Mt Evans:http://tinyurl.com/2mukn7http://tinyurl.com/2stj4m

Quoted message said:

2006 - 1st Tour of Gila stage, Colorado state criterium championhttp://tinyurl.com/2ku24ehttp://tinyurl.com/2pejtf

Quoted message said:

2007 - 2nd Tour of CA prologue

Quoted message said:

So what we have here is a climber who has been winning criteriums at
every level since he started and has very little time trial
experience. This could get very interesting.

Quoted message said:

Bret

What you also have is a rider on a team which will be perhaps the most
closely scruitinised in the history of the sport, and voluntarily so.
It's easy to make insinuations but you are conveniently forgetting
this point...

Ok, my bad! I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion re what you were
saying.. I was cheering for Jason, pity he didn't get the stage win..

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

What insinuations? I read Bret's comments and thought, "Interesting --
this guy could go far in this race. But maybe the longer TT will hurt
him."
--
JT

You're right, I made no insinuation. I think Donald is still
developing and will be somone to watch. The TT was all the more
remarkable considering the lack of experience.

So, I was wondering, could his relative inexperience be
an issue? How many big stage races has he done? Of course
he doesn't have to defend the jersey or expectations, so
that takes some pressure off.

This reinforces the idea that there is likely a lot of
talent out there that isn't even on bicycles.

Also, Ben Jacques-Maynes had a good ride and is a fairly
experienced quality rider. Maybe not up to Levi in a
longer TT, but it's February and we'll see.

Ben

On Feb 20, 8:18 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

What insinuations? I read Bret's comments and thought, "Interesting --
this guy could go far in this race. But maybe the longer TT will hurt
him."
--
JT

Quoted message said:

You're right, I made no insinuation. I think Donald is still
developing and will be somone to watch. The TT was all the more
remarkable considering the lack of experience.

So, I was wondering, could his relative inexperience be
an issue? How many big stage races has he done? Of course
he doesn't have to defend the jersey or expectations, so
that takes some pressure off.

This reinforces the idea that there is likely a lot of
talent out there that isn't even on bicycles.

Also, Ben Jacques-Maynes had a good ride and is a fairly
experienced quality rider. Maybe not up to Levi in a
longer TT, but it's February and we'll see.

Ben

I don't think he has too much stage race experience, but he's under
the close tutelage of a guy who has lot's, plus from very early on in
his athletic career he's shown that he is a winner. He may not win
the ToC (this year) but he's no fluke and he will go far in the
sport. From looking at his results as a runner AND his pretty darned
incredible results in his very short cycling career, you can only
surmise that he's got some serious talent.

Scott

On Feb 20, 8:18 pm, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

What insinuations? I read Bret's comments and thought, "Interesting --
this guy could go far in this race. But maybe the longer TT will hurt
him."
--
JT

Quoted message said:

You're right, I made no insinuation. I think Donald is still
developing and will be somone to watch. The TT was all the more
remarkable considering the lack of experience.

So, I was wondering, could his relative inexperience be
an issue? How many big stage races has he done? Of course
he doesn't have to defend the jersey or expectations, so
that takes some pressure off.

This reinforces the idea that there is likely a lot of
talent out there that isn't even on bicycles.

Also, Ben Jacques-Maynes had a good ride and is a fairly
experienced quality rider. Maybe not up to Levi in a
longer TT, but it's February and we'll see.

Ben

Sure his inexperience could hurt but he's also probably got some room
to improve. This reminds me of Ned Overand doing the Coor's Classic in
1983. He was a 26 year old newbie with a running background if I
recall correctly.

Bret

On 20 Feb 2007 21:15:16 -0800, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't think he has too much stage race experience, but he's under
the close tutelage of a guy who has lot's, plus from very early on in
his athletic career he's shown that he is a winner. He may not win
the ToC (this year) but he's no fluke and he will go far in the
sport. From looking at his results as a runner AND his pretty darned
incredible results in his very short cycling career, you can only
surmise that he's got some serious talent.

A question is, can he handle a bike and stay out of the wind well?
--
JT
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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On Feb 21, 4:05 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On 20 Feb 2007 21:15:16 -0800, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't think he has too much stage race experience, but he's under
the close tutelage of a guy who has lot's, plus from very early on in
his athletic career he's shown that he is a winner. He may not win
the ToC (this year) but he's no fluke and he will go far in the
sport. From looking at his results as a runner AND his pretty darned
incredible results in his very short cycling career, you can only
surmise that he's got some serious talent.

A question is, can he handle a bike and stay out of the wind well?
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visithttp://www.jt10000.com
****************************

Those are great questions. He has a background as mountainbiker and
he's shown that he can win Pro/1/2 crits in CO. As for staying out of
the wind, that's hard to say. Most of his road race wins have come
after solo efforts. He wasn't sitting in, then. I bet he can learn.

Scott

On 21 Feb 2007 05:06:20 -0800, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

He has a background as mountainbiker and
he's shown that he can win Pro/1/2 crits in CO.

Better than Danielson it seems, then.

--
JT
****************************
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Visit http://www.jt10000.com
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"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 21 Feb 2007 05:06:20 -0800, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

He has a background as mountainbiker and
he's shown that he can win Pro/1/2 crits in CO.

Better than Danielson it seems, then.

Danielson is going to have to have his revelation. We've already seen by his
results in Europe that he has the physical capacity to win in big races, he
just doesn't have the dedication and drive to do so. And I think that
probably comes from the fear that riders like he always have - can I hold on
to the end.

Another perfect example of someone that's physically superior but just
doesn't have the kill instinct quite strong enough is George Hincapie. I
think that George could have won a lot more classics if he hadn't been too
concerned with trying to prove to others that he was worthy of riding with
them.

"Bret" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sure his inexperience could hurt but he's also probably got some room
to improve. This reminds me of Ned Overend doing the Coor's Classic in
1983. He was a 26 year old newbie with a running background if I
recall correctly.

Ned, at 50, just got a second in the Mt. Washington hill climb or some such?
Deadly Nedly is decidedly a man to be reckoned with. What could he have
accomplished if there was a school training system for bicycle racers?

fwiw....i read somewhere that one of his early coaches said he's
unusual for a runner convert 'cuz he actually can handle a bike.

On Feb 21, 6:05 am, John Forrest Tomlinson <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

A question is, can he handle a bike and stay out of the wind well?
--
JT

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich' cyclintom@yahoo. com said:

"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 21 Feb 2007 05:06:20 -0800, "Scott" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

He has a background as mountainbiker and
he's shown that he can win Pro/1/2 crits in CO.

Better than Danielson it seems, then.

Danielson is going to have to have his revelation. We've already seen by his
results in Europe that he has the physical capacity to win in big races, he
just doesn't have the dedication and drive to do so. And I think that
probably comes from the fear that riders like he always have - can I hold on
to the end.

Another perfect example of someone that's physically superior but just
doesn't have the kill instinct quite strong enough is George Hincapie. I
think that George could have won a lot more classics if he hadn't been too
concerned with trying to prove to others that he was worthy of riding with
them.

Sounds like what Hincapie is missing is the "wheelsucker" instinct.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

"Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sounds like what Hincapie is missing is the "wheelsucker" instinct.

Well, only the remarkably gifted can win off the front.