Kerry has *two* Serottas!

Pbwalther said:

I agree Curtis. Except you missed Harry Truman, who was
not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination and had a
fine reputation for financial rectitude.

His haberdasherie failed though IIRC.

Surely he had some cash in the bank by the time he started
running for public office; the Senate for certain. Didn't he
make his money as a lawyer? His first elected position was
as a judge.

Quoted message said:

In facts, I don't think any of our recent presidents was
really wealthy enough to afford the presidential campaign
without raising money from conventional sources. You do
see people running for the senate who seem to have no
political competency but they do have boat loads of cash.
Interestingly enough, many of these cash rich people do
not win the election so maybe american voters are not as
stupid as they sometimes seem.

Sour grapes promoting the image of the common voter as a
dunce whenever "the correct" candidate doesn't get elected.

Quoted message said:

I can think of one president who might have been a bit of
an exception and that was John F. Kennedy, whose father
reputedly said that he (Kennedy's father) did not want to
buy a landslide.

But allegedly did buy "enough" votes for a win (in the
Senate as well as Prez). Again, possibly nothing more than
sour grapes from a losing side.

SMH

Mark Hickey said:

Pat said:

Quoted message said:

>He's just as rich, if not richer, than Bush,

Bush has nowhere NEAR the kind of money in the Heinz-
Kerry estate. Not even remotely close. Still, watch Bush
get singled out as the "rich one"... heh.

Let's admit that a person HAS to be wealthy in order to
run for office and get over the fascination with other
people's riches, shall we?

I have no problem with that - just finding it kinda funny
that those who want to denounce Bush as "rich" are going
to have to deal with lots of cognitive dissonance if they
plan to vote for Kerry.

Not to mention bike riding activities being common to both.

Kerry is a great guy for riding a bike; Bush is inept
because he crashed on one.

I think it's great both a riding, and whichever one makes it
to the White House in 2005, may their interest in the
activity continue!

SMH

Mark Hickey <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Gooserider said:

private planes----and tries to pass himself off as an
envrionmentalist? He's just as rich, if not richer,
than Bush,

Bush has nowhere NEAR the kind of money in the Heinz-Kerry
estate. Not even remotely close. Still, watch Bush get
singled out as the "rich one"... heh.

Mark Hickey

Not only that but Kerry was born with a silver spoon in his
mouth. Of course, he became much richer when he married the
Heinz fortune.

Yet he somehow managed to spend time doing combat duty in
Vietnam. Isn't there some ultra-right-wing conspiracy theory
to cover that?

And what was Bush doing during that time?

Tom "Ultra-conservative thought is an oxymoron"

"Thomas Reynolds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yet he somehow managed to spend time doing combat duty in
Vietnam. Isn't there some ultra-right-wing conspiracy
theory to cover that?

And what was Bush doing during that time?

Flying high performance fighter jets. Not a 'cake' job.
In fact, one of the most difficult jobs you can do in
the military.

Pete

FloridaBent said:

No, Harry Truman was not a lawyer. He never went to
college. In those days, being elected "judge" in Missouri
involved being the chief administrator of the county. It
was not a legal position, in the sense of holding court
and passing sentence.

OK, thanks for the biography update.

But surely, he wasn't a poor fellow, by the standards of the
time, when he went on to the Senate.

I think trashing someone politically for having money is
rather mindless. I can't think of anyone really "poor"
making it to the Senate or Presidency.

Representatives might have been on the poor side at one
time, but I think a middle class (financially) Rep is
probably rather rare now days too.

SMH

Thomas Reynolds said:

Not only that but Kerry was born with a silver spoon in
his mouth. Of course, he became much richer when he
married the Heinz fortune.

Yet he somehow managed to spend time doing combat duty in
Vietnam. Isn't there some ultra-right-wing conspiracy
theory to cover that?

Well, some of the grunt types in Nam might wonder how he
managed to do "a tour" of duty there in only 4 months (most
spent about 13). Some will question his "wounds" in not
losing any duty time as their result. Pretty good way to get
wounded if you have a choice.

Quoted message said:

And what was Bush doing during that time?

Bush volunteered for "Palace Alert" in an F-102. The dagger
wasn't especially useful in Vietnam as it turned out, but
some were sent and a couple even managed to get shot down.

For a supposed dummy, he'd have to be pretty clever to have
anticipated all that at the time.

Now I don't fault either of the fellows on their military
service. Only the hard-core politico types criticize either
for what appears to me to be honorable service.

SMH

Stephen Harding said:

Some will question his "wounds" in not losing any duty
time as their result. Pretty good way to get wounded if
you have a choice.

??

My impression was that you seldom have a choice.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Stephen Harding said:

I think it's great both a [are] riding, and whichever one
makes it to the White House in 2005, may their interest in
the activity continue!

Text of a "political ad" Seen on The Tonight Show:
------------------------------------------------------------
-
"May 5, 2004: John Kerry falls while riding his bicycle.

May 22, 2004: George W. Bush falls while riding his bicycle.

Vote for Lance Armstrong! He _knows_ how to ride a bicycle!"

------------------------------------------------------------
--

I liked it!

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Pete said:

"Thomas Reynolds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Yet he somehow managed to spend time doing combat duty in
Vietnam. Isn't there some ultra-right-wing conspiracy
theory to cover that?

And what was Bush doing during that time?

Flying high performance fighter jets. Not a 'cake' job. In
fact, one of the most difficult jobs you can do in the
military.

Hmm. Another of the "most difficult jobs" is getting shot at
while on patrol in enemy-infested jungles.

Honestly, I think if you gave most guys the choice - fly a
jet in the US (with time off for political work), or face
enemy fire in a sodden jungle - I think most guys would take
a crack at flying that "difficult" jet.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Frank Krygowski said:

Text of a "political ad" Seen on The Tonight Show:
-----------------------------------------------------------
--
"May 5, 2004: John Kerry falls while riding his bicycle.

May 22, 2004: George W. Bush falls while riding his
bicycle.

Vote for Lance Armstrong! He _knows_ how to ride a
bicycle!"

-----------------------------------------------------
---------

I liked it!

Me too. See there IS a middle ground.

Mark (either way a Texan is president) Hickey ;-) Habanero
Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Hmm. Another of the "most difficult jobs" is getting shot
at while on patrol in enemy-infested jungles.

Honestly, I think if you gave most guys the choice - fly a
jet in the US (with time off for political work), or face
enemy fire in a sodden jungle - I think most guys would
take a crack at flying that "difficult" jet.

Sure. And not all can.

But flying a particular jet is not a "I want this one" type
of deal. Military needs at the time, and skills demonstrated
through UPT determine who flys what. And most pilots fight
like hell to get the hot jets. Only the better ones do.

Usually, you go where your unit goes (or does not go).
And a lot of Reserve and ANG units ended up flying over
that same jungle. Lots of different jets were used in
Nam, incl the F-102 for a time, and Bush even volunteered
for PALACE ALERT. Evidently, he did not have enough hours
to be selected.

Not everyone in the military at the time went to Nam. Not
even most. Not even everyone who was drafted.

Pete

Quoted message said:

Not everyone in the military at the time went to Nam. Not
even most. Not even everyone who was drafted.

I thank God I was too young for that war and too old for
the next one.

I'm gussing I was lucky.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY
MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------ __________306.350.357.38-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]__________

Pete said:

Bush even volunteered for PALACE ALERT.

Not in writing, AFAIK, and the programme was shut down a
week after Bush got out of training. On top of this, Bush
ticked the "do not volunteer" box regarding overseas duty
when he signed up.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗
SupercalafragilisticBorussiaMoenchengladbach

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete said:

Bush even volunteered for PALACE ALERT.

Not in writing, AFAIK, and the programme was shut down a
week after Bush got out of training.

So it's his fault that the program was closed?

Quoted message said:

On top of this, Bush ticked the "do not volunteer" box
regarding overseas duty when he signed up.

An awful lot of people do that. And it makes little
difference when your MOS/AFSC is needed. "The needs of the
military..." You don't always get to choose your war, or how
you participate in it.

Pilots, especially fighter pilots, are even more
specialized. You go where your platform and/or squadron
is needed.

For instance: During Gulf War I, virtually ALL of the
fighter units in Europe went and flew. All except one. For
whatever reason, the 86th Fighter Wing sent no jets or
pilots. I'm not privy to the decision of USAFE command at
the time as to why the 86th from Ramstein did not go.

10 years from now, would you hold it against one of those
F-16 pilots if he were in a political race against an ex-
Marine commander that did fight on the ground in Iraq?
"OMG....a major war, people fighting and dying, and this guy
flew nice safe missions over Oktoberfest! What a wimp! This
other guy was on the ground getting shot at with his
troops!" I wouldn't.

Listen...most of these guys *could* have gotten out of it
but chose not to. Almost all of our recent presidents and
pres. wannabes have done some sort of military service. By
choice. And I respect them for that service. Reagan, Carter,
Bush I, Bush II, McCain, Kerry, Gore, Rangel...

Look into Kerry's heralded Purple Hearts. Especially the
third one (the one that got him out of Vietnam early).

Pete USAF, Ret.

Pete said:

"Keith Willoughby" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete said:

Bush even volunteered for PALACE ALERT.

Not in writing, AFAIK, and the programme was shut down a
week after Bush got out of training.

So it's his fault that the program was closed?

It makes the "he volunteered for it" claim a little hollow.
Nothing to do with him, everything to do with you.

--
Keith Willoughby flat222.orgkeithOpen ↗ ". . . if it
prosper, none dare call it treason"

Pete said:

Not everyone in the military at the time went to Nam. Not
even most. Not even everyone who was drafted.

And everyone that thought Clinton's transparent plot to
avoid military duty altogether wasn't an issue think that
GB's limited duty to be one. And those that thought the
reverse have changed their minds as well.

I expect politicians to be hypocrits - it comes from making
promises in public. Its the transparent hypocrisy exhibited
by the faithful followers on both sides that makes me wonder
if everyone has racheted up their own gag reflexes to keep
on keeping on.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Stephen Harding said:

I think trashing someone politically for having money is
rather mindless. I can't think of anyone really "poor"
making it to the Senate or Presidency.

I would guess that there are relatively few experience
progressions that would make one qualified to be president
and still be relatively poor. Even a military career in the
U.S. as an officer will leave you better than poor. Maybe a
small state governor, but doubt it.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

In article <[email hidden]>, curtis@md-
bicycling.org says...

Quoted message said:

Stephen Harding said:

I think trashing someone politically for having money is
rather mindless. I can't think of anyone really "poor"
making it to the Senate or Presidency.

I would guess that there are relatively few experience
progressions that would make one qualified to be president
and still be relatively poor. Even a military career in
the U.S. as an officer will leave you better than poor.
Maybe a small state governor, but doubt it.

That's a good point, though most (not all) of them are more
than just "better than poor". If Colin Powell runs, he would
probably be the least wealthy candidate in quite a while.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in
the newsgroups if possible).

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mark Hickey said:

Frank Krygowski said:

Text of a "political ad" Seen on The Tonight Show:
------------------------------------------------------
-------
"May 5, 2004: John Kerry falls while riding his bicycle.

May 22, 2004: George W. Bush falls while riding his
bicycle.

Vote for Lance Armstrong! He _knows_ how to ride a
bicycle!"

-------------------------------------------------------
-------

I liked it!

Me too. See there IS a middle ground.

Mark (either way a Texan is president) Hickey ;-) Habanero
Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Me three!

Lance "fell" in last years tour and got up and won the
stage.

Can you imagine Cheryl Crow as first lady?

and all the fat cats riding Madone's around DC??

HAND and a safe memorial day

--
"Freedom Is a Light for Which Many Have Died in Darkness"

- Tomb of the unknown - American Revolution

H. M. Leary said:

Mark Hickey said:

Frank Krygowski <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I liked it!

Me too. See there IS a middle ground.

Me three!

Lance "fell" in last years tour and got up and won
the stage.

Can you imagine Cheryl Crow as first lady?

and all the fat cats riding Madone's around DC??

Oooooh, I just realized that we can't have Lance running for
president. Whichever party he doesn't choose to affiliate
himself with will start bashing him for alleged drug use
(after all, he DID use steroids during his cancer
treatment), and his riding Shimano would be an even hotter
issue than it is now. All the other party would have to
switch to Campy post haste (not really sure what the MTBers
would do). Every move in the TdF would be lambasted by the
other side mercilessly, and if he wins it would only be by
"abusing his team", or maybe he'd be denigrated for being
too nationalistic by taking the glory away from the
international community. ;-)

Quoted message said:

HAND and a safe memorial day

Thanks - I will. I'll be traveling and won't be keeping up
with the newsgroups. That means there's almost a week where
political nonsense will go unchallenged (by me anyway). ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of
the $695 ti frame