kool stop for campagnolo

Jim Higson said:

On his page here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#campagnolo

Sheldon Brown says the "campi 2000" pads fit all campag brakes from 2000 and
later, but on the back of the packet, Kool Stop only list Chorus, Record,
and Athena.

Anyone know if these work with recent Mirage?

Mirage (at least the 2006 ones on my wife's bike) have one-piece brake
shoes. They are molded with the mounting bolt as one unit. Chorus,
Record, etc have a metal carrier that the rubber shoe slides into.
Seems like these Kool Stop will not work unless you also get some
carriers (or whatever they are called).

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Jim Higson said:

On his page here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#campagnolo

Sheldon Brown says the "campi 2000" pads fit all campag brakes from 2000
and later, but on the back of the packet, Kool Stop only list Chorus,
Record, and Athena.

Anyone know if these work with recent Mirage?

Mirage (at least the 2006 ones on my wife's bike) have one-piece brake
shoes. They are molded with the mounting bolt as one unit. Chorus,
Record, etc have a metal carrier that the rubber shoe slides into.
Seems like these Kool Stop will not work unless you also get some
carriers (or whatever they are called).

I've just taken a look and I think this is the case (not having any higher
up the range campag equipment, I didn't have anything to compare
the "slidability" of the pads with and presumed I just had to pull them out
*really* hard!) BTW, I think my brakes are somewhere between 2003 and 2005
models.

Funny thing is, here in the UK I can get a new pair of 2005 Mirage brakes on
ebay for £19.20 (inc delivery)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Campagnolo-Mirage-Brake-Calipers-Black-2005-Model-NEW_W0QQitemZ170052233013QQihZ007QQcategoryZ27949QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

But, the official Campagnolo pads are going for about £18.99 (again with
delivery), like here:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?main=ProductDetail.aspx&ProdID=5360009236&referid=Frogoog

In other words, it is only 21p (about 40 cents!) more expensive to buy whole
new brakes than just the pads - If I had Veloce it would actually be
cheaper!

Madness!

--
Jim

Jim Higson said:

Quoted message said:

Jim Higson said:

On his page here:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#campagnolo

Sheldon Brown says the "campi 2000" pads fit all campag brakes from 2000
and later, but on the back of the packet, Kool Stop only list Chorus,
Record, and Athena.

Anyone know if these work with recent Mirage?

Mirage (at least the 2006 ones on my wife's bike) have one-piece brake
shoes. They are molded with the mounting bolt as one unit. Chorus,
Record, etc have a metal carrier that the rubber shoe slides into.
Seems like these Kool Stop will not work unless you also get some
carriers (or whatever they are called).

Just had a proper look and my kind are definitely like you describe -
thanks.

Anyone have an opinion on if Kool Stop Salmon are better than the standard
campag black pads by enough to be worth getting a special Kool Stop pad
holder, presuming both options cost about the same?

"Jim Higson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Higson said:

Quoted message said:

Jim Higson wrote:
> On his page here:
>
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html#campagnolo
>
> Sheldon Brown says the "campi 2000" pads fit all campag brakes from

2000

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> and later, but on the back of the packet, Kool Stop only list Chorus,
> Record, and Athena.
>
> Anyone know if these work with recent Mirage?
>

Mirage (at least the 2006 ones on my wife's bike) have one-piece brake
shoes. They are molded with the mounting bolt as one unit. Chorus,
Record, etc have a metal carrier that the rubber shoe slides into.
Seems like these Kool Stop will not work unless you also get some
carriers (or whatever they are called).

Just had a proper look and my kind are definitely like you describe -
thanks.

Anyone have an opinion on if Kool Stop Salmon are better than the standard
campag black pads by enough to be worth getting a special Kool Stop pad
holder, presuming both options cost about the same?

I picked up a set of brakes at Interbike while we were talking with a frame
maker we are considering using for one of our new bike lines. The pads were
specific for carbon rims so I replaced them with a set of the salmon Kool
Stops. The stopping power is quite good, even surprising. The brakes
themselves are nothing really special or out of the ordinary. I just liked
the carbon finish effect (LoL). I do not know anything yet about wear,
durability, particle retention, wet conditions, etc., but they sure seem to
work well.

The Kool Stop stuff we get from our wholesaler is the complete set, shoes,
mixed material pads and an extra set of the salmons pads. Probably retails
for $20, or something close, I suppose... Check with your LBS to be sure.

One of my wife's bikes has 8 speed DA brakes and I replaced the shoes with
the Kool Stops and they work uneventfully well. I think Kool Stop makes a
Campy style complete shoe setup as well.

Bruce

Bruce Gilbert said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone have an opinion on if Kool Stop Salmon are better than the
standard campag black pads by enough to be worth getting a special Kool
Stop pad holder, presuming both options cost about the same?

I picked up a set of brakes at Interbike while we were talking with a
frame maker we are considering using for one of our new bike lines. The
pads were specific for carbon rims so I replaced them with a set of the
salmon Kool Stops. The stopping power is quite good, even surprising.

Would you say it is much better than normal pads (standard Campagnolo
particularly)?

Quoted message said:

The brakes themselves are nothing really special or out of the ordinary. I
just liked
the carbon finish effect (LoL). I do not know anything yet about wear,
durability, particle retention, wet conditions, etc., but they sure seem
to work well.

The Kool Stop stuff we get from our wholesaler is the complete set, shoes,
mixed material pads and an extra set of the salmons pads. Probably retails
for $20, or something close, I suppose... Check with your LBS to be sure.

I will try the next time I pass, but the last time I was in they told me
they don't stock much "campagnolia", so I don't hold too much hope.

Quoted message said:

One of my wife's bikes has 8 speed DA brakes and I replaced the shoes with
the Kool Stops and they work uneventfully well. I think Kool Stop makes a
Campy style complete shoe setup as well.

Ah, yes. Their website has a picture of the holders about 3/5 of the way
down this page:

http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index.php

They look pretty good, but I can't find them on sale anywhere in the UK. I
can get them sent from the USA (here has them for $16.95)

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=KSHDD&ref=pd

With delivery to the UK two pairs would be $52.88, or about £27.61.

As previously mentioned, I can get a new set of 2005 Mirage brakes for
£19.20, with Campag's standard black pads included. I don't mind the extra
cost and inconvenience of international ordering so long as the Kool Stops
really are a superior product.

BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be good
and the pads durable!

Jim Higson said:

Anyone have an opinion on if Kool Stop Salmon are better than the
standard campag black pads by enough to be worth getting a special
Kool Stop pad holder, presuming both options cost about the same?

That's what I did and it's been worthwhile. Braking is good, adjustment is
excellent, pad changing is dead easy, and the pads rarely pick up bits of
grit and metal - unlike Campag's and most others.

I don't know if "Campi" models fit Mirage, but the "Dura" holders fit once
the caliper slots have been filed slightly wider.

~PB

"Jim Higson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bruce Gilbert said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone have an opinion on if Kool Stop Salmon are better than the
standard campag black pads by enough to be worth getting a special Kool
Stop pad holder, presuming both options cost about the same?

I picked up a set of brakes at Interbike while we were talking with a
frame maker we are considering using for one of our new bike lines. The
pads were specific for carbon rims so I replaced them with a set of the
salmon Kool Stops. The stopping power is quite good, even surprising.

Would you say it is much better than normal pads (standard Campagnolo
particularly)?

Quoted message said:

The brakes themselves are nothing really special or out of the ordinary.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just liked
the carbon finish effect (LoL). I do not know anything yet about wear,
durability, particle retention, wet conditions, etc., but they sure seem
to work well.

The Kool Stop stuff we get from our wholesaler is the complete set,

shoes,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mixed material pads and an extra set of the salmons pads. Probably

retails

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for $20, or something close, I suppose... Check with your LBS to be

sure.

Quoted message said:

I will try the next time I pass, but the last time I was in they told me
they don't stock much "campagnolia", so I don't hold too much hope.

Quoted message said:

One of my wife's bikes has 8 speed DA brakes and I replaced the shoes

with

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the Kool Stops and they work uneventfully well. I think Kool Stop makes

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Campy style complete shoe setup as well.

Ah, yes. Their website has a picture of the holders about 3/5 of the way
down this page:

http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index.php

They look pretty good, but I can't find them on sale anywhere in the UK. I
can get them sent from the USA (here has them for $16.95)

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=KSHDD&ref=pd

With delivery to the UK two pairs would be $52.88, or about £27.61.

As previously mentioned, I can get a new set of 2005 Mirage brakes for
£19.20, with Campag's standard black pads included. I don't mind the extra
cost and inconvenience of international ordering so long as the Kool Stops
really are a superior product.

BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be good
and the pads durable!

I think the salmons may have a better grip than the black Dura Ace pads
which are on most of my bikes. I put the new brakes on an old Colnago bike
that I built up from parts as something to ride from the warehouse during
lunch. As I said, I don't believe the "carbon" brakes are anything special,
but there sure is a positive grab when I hit the brakes. I could change them
out to plain Dura Ace pads and go for a ride next week, just to see...

RETAIL MARKETING STATEMENT: The carbon brakes actually make you ride faster
and stop more quickly because of the special carbon fiber and epoxy blend.
Salmon Kool Stop pads are like Viagra for your calipers. They help you
squeeze every bit of performance from your bike and even improve climbing!
Be sure to email Kool Stop to inquire about other flavors besides the
salmon.

Bruce

Pete Biggs said:

I don't know if "Campi" models fit Mirage, but the "Dura" holders fit once
the caliper slots have been filed slightly wider.

The slots in the Mirage breaks are (from holding a ruler against them) 6.5mm
wide. Is there a standard therad used for brake shoes?

--
Jim

Jim Higson said:

Pete Biggs said:

I don't know if "Campi" models fit Mirage, but the "Dura" holders
fit once the caliper slots have been filed slightly wider.

The slots in the Mirage breaks are (from holding a ruler against
them) 6.5mm wide. Is there a standard therad used for brake shoes?

Mirage blocks and most basic blocks just have a bolt sticking through the
slot with a nut entirely on the outside, so the width of the slot isn't so
critical. But Kool Stop Dura holders have a special nut to fit through the
slot to reach the short bolt. They fit most brakes but Mirage's* slots are
slightly too narrow. We're only talking about a fraction of a millimetre,
if I remember rightly.

* The Mirage brakes I have are several years old. I'm assuming the slots of
the latest models are the same. If not, you have no filing to do.
Otherwise, don't let this little job put you off.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Higson said:

Pete Biggs said:

I don't know if "Campi" models fit Mirage, but the "Dura" holders
fit once the caliper slots have been filed slightly wider.

The slots in the Mirage breaks are (from holding a ruler against
them) 6.5mm wide. Is there a standard therad used for brake shoes?

Mirage blocks and most basic blocks just have a bolt sticking through the
slot with a nut entirely on the outside, so the width of the slot isn't so
critical. But Kool Stop Dura holders have a special nut to fit through
the
slot to reach the short bolt. They fit most brakes but Mirage's* slots
are
slightly too narrow. We're only talking about a fraction of a
millimetre, if I remember rightly.

* The Mirage brakes I have are several years old. I'm assuming the slots
of
the latest models are the same. If not, you have no filing to do.
Otherwise, don't let this little job put you off.

Kool Stop say their "Campi 2000" is for 10 speed groups, and Mirage is 10
speed these days - so maybe they officialy support it. Or maybe they mean
groups that were 10 speed in 2000 - in which case they wouldn't?

Eitherway, I'm fed up of worrying about it. I'll just order a pair of
holders and file the brakes down a bit if they don't quite fit. If they
don't look anywhere near fitting, I can always sell the holders on ebay.

Cheers.

--
Jim

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Higson said:

BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be good
and the pads durable!

Do you ride in wet conditions? `Durable' pads cause
non-durable wheel rims. The orange Kool-Stop pads are
worth having. How do you like the pads you are
replacing. Any untoward rim wear?

--
Michael Press

Michael Press said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Jim Higson said:

BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be good
and the pads durable!

Do you ride in wet conditions?

Little but at the moment - just got in from a downpour!

Quoted message said:

`Durable' pads cause
non-durable wheel rims. The orange Kool-Stop pads are
worth having. How do you like the pads you are
replacing. Any untoward rim wear?

The standard Campag pads I have seem OK. In the rain though they sometimes
take a while to kick in, but I don't have much to compare with, other than
the V-brakes on my mountain bike, which isn't really a fair comparison.

I've ordered the Kool Stop, by the way. The cost of ordering from the states
isn't so great that it isn't worth finding out.

--
Jim

Jim Higson said:

Michael Press said:

Jim Higson said:

BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be good
and the pads durable!

Do you ride in wet conditions?

Little but at the moment - just got in from a downpour!

Quoted message said:

`Durable' pads cause
non-durable wheel rims. The orange Kool-Stop pads are
worth having. How do you like the pads you are
replacing. Any untoward rim wear?

The standard Campag pads I have seem OK. In the rain though they sometimes
take a while to kick in, but I don't have much to compare with, other than
the V-brakes on my mountain bike, which isn't really a fair comparison.

I've ordered the Kool Stop, by the way. The cost of ordering from the states
isn't so great that it isn't worth finding out.

Would you elaborate on why it isn't a fair comparison between the pads
by Campy and those on your mountain bike?

Despite having a different mechanism between your hand and the pads,
either system works the same way from the pads' perspective. Assuming,
of course, that it has been set up properly, any good brake can stop
hard enough to cause pitchover or skidding. Some do need more hand
strength.

--
Ted Bennett

Jim Higson wrote:

I scribbled:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mirage blocks and most basic blocks just have a bolt sticking
through the slot with a nut entirely on the outside,

Just for the record, I'm mistaken there because most modern blocks just have
bolts rather than nuts & bolts - but it's irrelevant.

/snip

Quoted message said:

Kool Stop say their "Campi 2000" is for 10 speed groups, and Mirage
is 10 speed these days - so maybe they officialy support it. Or maybe
they mean groups that were 10 speed in 2000 - in which case they
wouldn't?

I would guess the latter.

Quoted message said:

Eitherway, I'm fed up of worrying about it. I'll just order a pair of
holders and file the brakes down a bit if they don't quite fit. If
they don't look anywhere near fitting, I can always sell the holders
on ebay.

That's the spirit! Enjoy your brakes when you get it all sorted.

~PB

Ted Bennett said:

Jim Higson said:

Michael Press said:

Jim Higson <[email hidden]> wrote:

> BTW, I live in a land of 12-25% gradients, so I like my brakes to be
> good and the pads durable!

Do you ride in wet conditions?

Little but at the moment - just got in from a downpour!

Quoted message said:

`Durable' pads cause
non-durable wheel rims. The orange Kool-Stop pads are
worth having. How do you like the pads you are
replacing. Any untoward rim wear?

The standard Campag pads I have seem OK. In the rain though they
sometimes take a while to kick in, but I don't have much to compare with,
other than the V-brakes on my mountain bike, which isn't really a fair
comparison.

I've ordered the Kool Stop, by the way. The cost of ordering from the
states isn't so great that it isn't worth finding out.

Would you elaborate on why it isn't a fair comparison between the pads
by Campy and those on your mountain bike?

A few differences came to mind that I imagine *might* make a difference:

* Direct pull cantilevers vs side-pull dual-pivot, so different mechanical
advantage
* Smaller wheels rotate faster at the same speed
* Mountain bike wheels lock up easier (on the road) due to having less grip
* V-brake Pads are larger
* My left hand is very weak after a rock climbing accident!
* Road bike rims are new and "machined", MTB aren't (or have worn off).
* MTB is heavier

I don't know how many of these things really affect braking power, but I
couldn't say with any confidence that a comparison between pads is fair
with so many potential differences.

Quoted message said:

Despite having a different mechanism between your hand and the pads,
either system works the same way from the pads' perspective.

I hadn't looked at it that way. Interesting.

Quoted message said:

Assuming,
of course, that it has been set up properly, any good brake can stop
hard enough to cause pitchover or skidding. Some do need more hand
strength.

So, would you say all reasonably designed pads are equally good?
In the rain my current brakes can stop me very hard, easily enough to cause
skidding, but only after a few rotations of the rim have wiped the water
off. I'd imagine that's somewhere the Kool Stop could be better.

--
Jim