Ksyrium SL rim weight?

[I][quote="gregk"]I'm considering two race wheel options:
1) Mavic Ksyrium SL's
2) Building my own custom hoops- DT RR1.1 rims, Sapim CX-ray spokes, and hubs that I have yet to determine. (Probably do 28 spokes, laced radial front, 1x non drive, 2x drive)[/I] Either would be the clincher version. Does anyone happen to know the weight of the rims on the Ksyriums? I know the DT rim is 415 grams, and I could build a pretty darn light wheel with good hubs, Sapim spokes, and alloy nipples. Consider cost to not be an issue- what would you do?

I haven't any weight information on just the rim of the SSC SL's but the entire wheel is reported to weigh in at about 1575g. I own a set of 2004 model. I also own numerous wheel sets built around the DT R1.1 rim, DT alloy nipples and Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28/32 3X), and all come in lighter. The lightest was built using American Classic hubs (28/28) which weighed 1474g. Others are built around the Zipp 95/220, Record and DT 240s hubs. I like them all. The SSC SL's are definitely a stiffer ride, and you can feel a crosswind more so than on a wheel with typical (round) spokes, or the Sapim spokes for that matter. If you want to know the weight of my other wheels, PM me. I have a gram scale, and the weights are accurate to within .01g if it really matters.

If cost is not an issue, my recommendation is to go custom, with the caveat that you use a qualified and reputable wheel builder. I would not go with radial lacing on the front unless you are light-bodied; but even then, why? You're not gaining anything of value, and the wheel will not be as strong. I've provided a shot of one of my wheel sets on a steel bike.

-Wm.

[quote="need11@46"][I]

gregk said:

I'm considering two race wheel options:
1) Mavic Ksyrium SL's
2) Building my own custom hoops- DT RR1.1 rims, Sapim CX-ray spokes, and hubs that I have yet to determine. (Probably do 28 spokes, laced radial front, 1x non drive, 2x drive)[/I] Either would be the clincher version. Does anyone happen to know the weight of the rims on the Ksyriums? I know the DT rim is 415 grams, and I could build a pretty darn light wheel with good hubs, Sapim spokes, and alloy nipples. Consider cost to not be an issue- what would you do?

I haven't any weight information on just the rim of the SSC SL's but the entire wheel is reported to weigh in at about 1575g. I own a set of 2004 model. I also own numerous wheel sets built around the DT R1.1 rim, DT alloy nipples and Sapim CX-Ray spokes (28/32 3X), and all come in lighter. The lightest was built using American Classic hubs (28/28) which weighed 1474g. Others are built around the Zipp 95/220, Record and DT 240s hubs. I like them all. The SSC SL's are definitely a stiffer ride, and you can feel a crosswind more so than on a wheel with typical (round) spokes, or the Sapim spokes for that matter. If you want to know the weight of my other wheels, PM me. I have a gram scale, and the weights are accurate to within .01g if it really matters.

If cost is not an issue, my recommendation is to go custom, with the caveat that you use a qualified and reputable wheel builder. I would not go with radial lacing on the front unless you are light-bodied; but even then, why? You're not gaining anything of value, and the wheel will not be as strong. I've provided a shot of one of my wheel sets on a steel bike.

-Wm.

AC used to sell the 350's. Too bad they don't anymore and even worse, the quality is poor for the builds.

I built mine using Revolutions back when the AC's were available. Since I used a different lacing for the rear, mine came out at 1280 grams, minus QR's and tape. I use the AC QR's and Michelin tape so total is 1400. Using aluminum nipples required a "wheel press" to unload the spokes as they are being tightened. Its easy to construct from dimensional lumber and uses an adjustable toggle to provide the force to simulate normal road load. It totally eliminates spoke windup and SAVES YOUR FINGERS!

gregk said:

That's impressive that a 3x 28/32 spoke wheelset comes in lighter than the fewer-spoked, high-class Ksyriums. I was kind of leaning towards the custom build, just to be different. I see lots of Ksyriums around here. I have never had a shallow section radial laced wheel, but I assumed that with 28 spokes, I'd be okay. I weigh 175 lbs. With the radial lacing they'll be a bit lighter and stiffer. I've ridden the SL's on a Seven, and as you said, they're quite stiff.

Are there any other lightweight rims that anyone recommends? There are, of course, the good ol' Mavic Open Pro. I am pleased with the set of DT's that are on my 'training' wheels on my road bike (built with DT 2.0/1.8 spokes and brass nipples). Are there any solid rims that crack the 400 gram mark? I know that American Classic has 350 and 300 gram models, but as far as I know, they're not sold as individual rims, only as complete wheels.

I don't believe a radial-laced wheel will be any lighter - same number of spokes and nipples - just a different lacing pattern; a 3X is definitely stronger than a radial-laced wheel. As for the rims, you're correct about the AC rims. I tried w/o success to secure a set, and I had a "contact." I've searched for a sub-400g rim to no avail. The DT R1.1 is the closest you'll find (at least from my research [Velocity Aerohead OC at a claimed 400g...]). Bottom Line: I don't think you'll do much better than the combinations you and I discussed (you just can't go wrong with the R1.1 and Sapim spokes) so I feel you're 3/4's of the way to the answer you seek. Pick your hubs and find a great wheel builder. I have no regrets; none. My wheels may not have the "bling" factor, but I'd stack them up against ANY manufactured wheel set for durability and reliability.

Ksyriums aren't all they're stacked up to be. That's why mine are sitting against my garage wall gathering dust.

Weisse Luft said:

AC used to sell the 350's. Too bad they don't anymore and even worse, the quality is poor for the builds.

I built mine using Revolutions back when the AC's were available. Since I used a different lacing for the rear, mine came out at 1280 grams, minus QR's and tape. I use the AC QR's and Michelin tape so total is 1400. Using aluminum nipples required a "wheel press" to unload the spokes as they are being tightened. Its easy to construct from dimensional lumber and uses an adjustable toggle to provide the force to simulate normal road load. It totally eliminates spoke windup and SAVES YOUR FINGERS!

Interesting about the wheel press. Do you know if anyone sells such a device, or could you post a picture of one?

need11@46 said:

I've searched for a sub-400g rim to no avail. The DT R1.1 is the closest you'll find (at least from my research [Velocity Aerohead OC at a claimed 400g...]). Bottom Line: I don't think you'll do much better than the combinations you and I discussed (you just can't go wrong with the R1.1 and Sapim spokes) so I feel you're 3/4's of the way to the answer you seek.

I'm also on my way to a light wheelset for my events with a lot of climbs. My plan is DT RR1.1 rim + American Classic Hubs + DT revolution spokes 1.8/1.5 + Alu Nipples, targeting the weight of 1400g.

Recently, I found this Alex CROSTINI R3.1 rim, claimed 390g, reported as 370g from this build:
rouesartisanales.comarticle 2164033.htmlOpen ↗

Anyone has experence of Alex CROSTINI R3.1 rim, in term of quality and weight? Any sugguestion on the rim selection(should I go to OP)?

alpha2k said:

Anyone has experence of Alex CROSTINI R3.1 rim, in term of quality and weight? Any sugguestion on the rim selection(should I go to OP)?

How much do you weigh? Lighter guys, like maybe 160lbs or less, can probably get away with using Crostini R3.1 rims front and rear, but heavier guys would probably be better suited to Crostini R3.1 front and R3.2 rear. Troy Watson at Ligero Wheelworks builds a lot with those wheels. In fact, I have a set of those rims laced to White Industries H1 hubs with CX-Ray spokes, 2x front and 3x rear. Total weight for my wheelset is 1380g, and it is a very robust wheelset. I guarantee you that they are more robust than any Ksyrium and much more stiff laterally.

Lighter guys, running R3.1 rims front and back have wheelsets that weigh less than 1350g.

FWIW, I don't think anyone knows where the idea that Ksyriums are stiff came from. First, all wheels display virtually the same in plane (i.e., veritical) stiffness; however, lateral stiffness is a different matter. And it so happens that in every test of lateral stiffness, the Ksyriums finish with the worst of the wheels.

alienator said:

How much do you weigh? Lighter guys, like maybe 160lbs or less, can probably get away with using Crostini R3.1 rims front and rear, but heavier guys would probably be better suited to Crostini R3.1 front and R3.2 rear. Troy Watson at Ligero Wheelworks builds a lot with those wheels. In fact, I have a set of those rims laced to White Industries H1 hubs with CX-Ray spokes, 2x front and 3x rear. Total weight for my wheelset is 1380g, and it is a very robust wheelset. I guarantee you that they are more robust than any Ksyrium and much more stiff laterally.

Lighter guys, running R3.1 rims front and back have wheelsets that weigh less than 1350g.

FWIW, I don't think anyone knows where the idea that Ksyriums are stiff came from. First, all wheels display virtually the same in plane (i.e., veritical) stiffness; however, lateral stiffness is a different matter. And it so happens that in every test of lateral stiffness, the Ksyriums finish with the worst of the wheels.

Thanks alienator. I weight 140lbs.

Another thing i'm not quite sure: should i have the front laced radially or 2x instead? As i understand, radial front will increase the vertical stiffness(and maybe less weight and air resistance) while 2x/3x has less lateral flexibility. So, how should I lace my front climbing wheel?

alpha2k said:

Thanks alienator. I weight 140lbs.

Another thing i'm not quite sure: should i have the front laced radially or 2x instead? As i understand, radial front will increase the vertical stiffness(and maybe less weight and air resistance) while 2x/3x has less lateral flexibility. So, how should I lace my front climbing wheel?

In my mind, laterally stiff wheels are the best climbing wheels....and descending wheels.....especially descending. I'd lace 'em 2x up front.

Again, vertical stiffness doesn't even come into play because the very, very small amount of vertical flex that exists is completely buried in the flex of the tire, which is much greater by an order of magnitude or two (10-100 times, that is).

People claim that some wheels ride "harsh" while others are "compliant," but the fact is that what is being felt is the compliance of the tire. "Harsh" wheels more than likely have overinflated tires.

The difference in ride quality between my Crostine wheelset and my Reynolds Stratus DV tubular wheels is non-existent, and if one of my wheelsets had to be defined as the one with the least vertical compliance, it would be the Stratus DV's: after all the Stratus DV's have a 46mm deep unidirectional, aero CF rim compared to the Crostini's 19.8mm deep rim.

alienator said:

In my mind, laterally stiff wheels are the best climbing wheels....and descending wheels.....especially descending. I'd lace 'em 2x up front.

Again, vertical stiffness doesn't even come into play because the very, very small amount of vertical flex that exists is completely buried in the flex of the tire, which is much greater by an order of magnitude or two (10-100 times, that is).

People claim that some wheels ride "harsh" while others are "compliant," but the fact is that what is being felt is the compliance of the tire. "Harsh" wheels more than likely have overinflated tires.

The difference in ride quality between my Crostine wheelset and my Reynolds Stratus DV tubular wheels is non-existent, and if one of my wheelsets had to be defined as the one with the least vertical compliance, it would be the Stratus DV's: after all the Stratus DV's have a 46mm deep unidirectional, aero CF rim compared to the Crostini's 19.8mm deep rim.

Thanks. Moving on for 2x front....