L6 - 1min, 90secs, 2mins or what?

My quick non-expert opinion would suggest your answer lies in the events you're training for. What is the duration of the anaerobic efforts in your races? Your efforts during your training should be at least as long as those expected during your races...my $0.02Can worth...

tonyzackery said:

My quick non-expert opinion would suggest your answer lies in the events you're training for. What is the duration of the anaerobic efforts in your races? Your efforts during your training should be at least as long as those expected during your races...my $0.02Can worth...

Yeah, in fact, if you're not sure, maybe you want to spread the efforts around to a variety of durations.

grahamspringett said:

Would I be better to go for 60 seconds so I can keep my average power up, or do I gain benefit from the extra 30secs with an inevitably drooping output?

My understanding of interval training is that the power should be even across the time frame. A drop-off in power within the interval is a no no and requires an adjustment to the power level so it's sustainable.

Exactly that's my understanding. There's a given Wattage for 1min, a Wattage for 90secs and one for 2 min's. And obviously the 2min Wattage will be lower than the 1min Wattage. Main focus is to have an almost flat power curve.
I also believe it's a wise thing to not only go for the 1 min or 2mins or so but to change between the various interval lenghts. This should IMHO create best results.
And do not forget about resting inbetween. Rests shouldn't be too long. A ratio of 1:1 is sufficient for L6 (although my body tells me something different each time I'm doing L6's)
But also for me, this is just my $0,02.

Cheers,
bigwillie013

bigwillie013 said:

Exactly that's my understanding. There's a given Wattage for 1min, a Wattage for 90secs and one for 2 min's. And obviously the 2min Wattage will be lower than the 1min Wattage. Main focus is to have an almost flat power curve.
I also believe it's a wise thing to not only go for the 1 min or 2mins or so but to change between the various interval lenghts. This should IMHO create best results.
And do not forget about resting inbetween. Rests shouldn't be too long. A ratio of 1:1 is sufficient for L6 (although my body tells me something different each time I'm doing L6's)
But also for me, this is just my $0,02.

Cheers,
bigwillie013

If you do L6 or predominately an-aerobic intervals right you should need a 1:2 1:2 or 1:3 rest ratio. It depends how long your interval was in the first place. the shorter the interval the longer the rest:ratio. Otherwise they just become aerobic intervals with a steep decline in power curve.

OP, it's more important that you do the intervals rather than how you do the intervals. I haven't seen research which indicates that there's a clear-cut best way to do them, so the how becomes largely a matter of individual taste.

NJK said:

If you do L6 or predominately an-aerobic intervals right you should need a 1:2 1:2 or 1:3 rest ratio. ......the shorter the interval the longer the rest:ratio.

It typically takes more than a couple minutes to completely deplete the anaerobic energy sources, so complete recoveries are not necessary between intervals. Some folks prefer to dig the hole progressively over several intervals (in surge-recover-surge-recover race fashion), and there's nothing to indicate that they aren't doing things right.

I find that I'm pooped after about 6 intervals of 1' on / 1' off, or can go for about 9 intervals if I do sets of 3 reps of 1' on / 1' off and then take a 3min rest between sets. The workout ends when the interval avg power drops by ~20% from the first one (which is still WAY above pVO2max ==> still plenty of anaerobic contribution). I tailor the rests based upon how much training load I want for that workout.

bigwillie013 said:

Main focus is to have an almost flat power curve.

I have news for you - you will never achieve a flat power curve no matter how much you try. It is OK to try though. 🙂

frenchyge said:

OP, it's more important that you do the intervals rather than how you do the intervals. I haven't seen research which indicates that there's a clear-cut best way to do them, so the how becomes largely a matter of individual taste.

It typically takes more than a couple minutes to completely deplete the anaerobic energy sources, so complete recoveries are not necessary between intervals. Some folks prefer to dig the hole progressively over several intervals (in surge-recover-surge-recover race fashion), and there's nothing to indicate that they aren't doing things right.

I find that I'm pooped after about 6 intervals of 1' on / 1' off, or can go for about 9 intervals if I do sets of 3 reps of 1' on / 1' off and then take a 3min rest between sets. The workout ends when the interval avg power drops by ~20% from the first one (which is still WAY above pVO2max ==> still plenty of anaerobic contribution). I tailor the rests based upon how much training load I want for that workout.

It depends how hard you set off as a full out sprint at the start will deplete CP stores and require alot more than 1:1 rest/ratio for recovery. Having done quite a few wingate tests with various recoveries the % drop off is very different, which is better as you say maybe open to debate. But from a measuring workload point of view i would rather have a longer recovery.

OP: How long does it take you to get dropped? Do your intervals a bit longer than this 😉

NJK said:

It depends how hard you set off as a full out sprint at the start will deplete CP stores and require alot more than 1:1 rest/ratio for recovery. Having done quite a few wingate tests with various recoveries the % drop off is very different, which is better as you say maybe open to debate.

Yeah, I think it depends on whether higher output or greater oxygen debt produces the desired results. I'm not sure we really know the answer there.

NJK said:

But from a measuring workload point of view i would rather have a longer recovery.

Agree. If I'm wanting to do more reps then interspersing some extra rest is the way to go. I typically shoot my anaerobic load quickly on a nearby hill and then spend the rest of the workout on some sweet-spot aerobic goodness. 🙂

sogood said:

My understanding of interval training is that the power should be even across the time frame. A drop-off in power within the interval is a no no and requires an adjustment to the power level so it's sustainable.

I've bumped my 1' power from 670W to 821W (20W/kg) in nine months with a variable power on these intervals. I hit them all-out from the start, and let the power die while I keep RPE at 10. The average power is significantly higher than with a steady effort.

I'm not claiming that this is a better method than steady intervals for training, but it works. This is also excellent training for race technique, since three of my wins this year have been attacking 0.75-1km. I have to launch all-out to get a gap, then just maintain to the finish. Everyone is going 5mph faster than me, but 10 meters back at the line.

waterrockets said:

I've bumped my 1' power from 670W to 821W (20W/kg) ...

Are you sure you didn't mis-type that 20? Or do you really weigh 41 kg? 😉 I believe that the best of the best kilo riders do around 11.5 W/kg. I'm prepared to believe that you can do 10W/kg. 🙂

1min w 1 min rests?!! :eek: What are you guys on?!
I recently did 10 1 min intervals @ 150-160% FTP with 3 min rests (total of 40 min). I was light-headed as I spun home. With a 20 min warmup and a shorter cool-down my IF was at least .94 (I can't recall exactly) for the day.

waterrockets said:

I've bumped my 1' power from 670W to 821W (20W/kg) in nine months with a variable power on these intervals. I hit them all-out from the start, and let the power die while I keep RPE at 10. The average power is significantly higher than with a steady effort.

I'm not claiming that this is a better method than steady intervals for training, but it works. This is also excellent training for race technique, since three of my wins this year have been attacking 0.75-1km. I have to launch all-out to get a gap, then just maintain to the finish. Everyone is going 5mph faster than me, but 10 meters back at the line.

Thats a big improvement what is your peak 5s power when doing these, how often over the nine mths did you do these intervals and how many in a set

This is why l love this forum and hope it continues to stay affloat there is always someone who has tried something a bit different and found that it works for them not only in there trainging files but in races where it really counts.

I'm currently tuning up with some L6 work in the final stages of preparation for World Masters Track Championships here in Sydney in October, so probably targeting the same event as grahamspringett.

After some research, and consultation with world renowned exercise physiologist, I've been riding my L6 intervals in the old "go hard, puke, go home" method.

There's some evidence to suggest that time in zone may have less influence on adaptation to anaerobic work capacity than the magnitude of that exposure.

In other words, riding each rep in an all out manner from the get go, and then hanging on for dear life, while expecting and accepting a significant decay in power over the length of the rep may provide a stronger response.

I recall reading some time ago (can't remember exactly where) that higher hydrogen ion concentration was the stimulus for greater adaptation to the buffering mechanisms in this particular study.

So if you're going to induce significant improvements in muscle buffering, etc., you need to REALLY stress the system.

I've been riding reps of 60sec, 90sec and 2min with some "pacing" for the 2min reps, just to survive them.

Have also experimented with sequences of 30sec all out, 30sec recovery for as many times as I can and still get and keep power above 150% FTP. On a good day I can last 5 or maybe 6 sequences for a set.

As a previous poster mentioned, riding this L6 stuff virtually all out does show higher average power for a given time frame than iso power, but it gets a lot uglier to complete.

But as has been said many times on this and other forums, it depends what sort of event you're targeting. I think a road racer might be better served hitting multiple 135%+ FTP reps on short recoveries than the way I'm doing mine while preparing for a specific track race. I might add too, I'm taking long recoveries by normal L6 training standards, up to 8min between 2min reps, specifically so I can try to hit and hold a higher average power for the 2min rep duration.

I do feel like this approach is working for me, but I'll know more in a couple of weeks.

As with most of our training, there's really no best way to do this stuff, so a mix of the 60sec to 2min duration work, with some ridden in an iso power manner, and others in the all out way, should pretty well cover all bases.

If you want a bit of a giggle, you might like to check out a blog I've created to chronicle my journey towards the Pursuit at World Masters.

Mike Lawson

mikelawsonscyclingblog.blogspot.commikelawsonscyclingblog.blogspot.comOpen ↗

Nice work Mike.
🙂

Piotr said:

Are you sure you didn't mis-type that 20? Or do you really weigh 41 kg? 😉 I believe that the best of the best kilo riders do around 11.5 W/kg. I'm prepared to believe that you can do 10W/kg. 🙂

:eek: Yeah, sorry, my 5" power is 20W/kg, 1' is 10. Whew. :o

bubsy said:

Thats a big improvement what is your peak 5s power when doing these, how often over the nine mths did you do these intervals and how many in a set

This is why l love this forum and hope it continues to stay affloat there is always someone who has tried something a bit different and found that it works for them not only in there trainging files but in races where it really counts.

My best 5s power during one of these intervals has been around 1500W. That's compared to a tested 5s power of 1651W. For some reason, I just can't seem to crank at a full 100% for the launch. No matter what mental games I play on myself, my brain just holds me back a bit when I know I'm going for a minute. Ideally, I'd see my MMP history graph at it's highest for all points from 1-60 seconds from a 1m test. I think that's true for anything past 10s...

This season, I did two rounds of 1m intervals, one about 2/3 of the way to each of my two peaks. I'd do them about once/week for 4-6 weeks. I've seen a lot of 1m improvement just from my FTP development. I do get a nice spike at the top of the peak though. My last test at 821W was actually botched, as I let up two early and had two samples at 0W at the end -- it was tracking for 834W 😠

I used to do 1m intervals every week during the race season. Once I got a power meter, I realized that my FTP was really weak compared to 5s and 1m power, so I stopped training them at all for about 4 months. They both still went up significantly when I tested them -- just from SST all that time. FTP really does rule, but the specificity seems to put the finishing touch on there.

BTW, I never train sprints any more. Once I learned to do the 1m intervals all-out from the beginning, the was no longer any benefit to sprint workouts. It's covered in the intervals. The only sprints I do are for 5s tests and racing. So, I can substitute FTP work in for that sprint workout, even when working on specific race stuff.

waterrockets said:

I've bumped my 1' power from 670W to 821W (20W/kg) in nine months with a variable power on these intervals.

You weigh 41kgs (90lbs)? 🙄