Lance in trance?

As we've seen in recent years any impressive athletic performance is unfortunately suspect. However one must look at an athlete with a measure of perspective. For example, Marion Jones set virtually every sprint record as a high school student and has been improving steadily ever since - there was no huge jump in improvement that would indicate a performance enhancing advantage. Tim Montgomery, on the other hand, improved his performance quickly - I believe he uses. On the other hand, Lance was world champion and a Tour stage winner before his cancer and now he's twenty pounds lighter with the same strength as before. Also, it's safe to say that there's not another athlete in the world who is as meticulous in his training as Lance: the attention to technique, nutrition, preparation, 100% focus on the Tour, etc. Also, there is no athlete in the world that has been tested for drugs more than Armstrong. While this may be a bit naive, I do believe that Lance, being a cancer survivor and inspiration to the cancer community, realizes what a blow it would be to all those suffering from cancer if he were to be found guilty of using drugs. So many people gain inspiration in their daily fight against cancer - it would be devasting to them. I don't think Armstrong as a cancer survivor would do that to them.

Proof?

I don't think any sentence starting with "I heard rumours....." constitutes anything resembling proof. And the man was right when he said "Extraordinary accusations should require extraordinary proof".

So far NO ONE has come up with anything other than rumours, speculation, gossip, innuendo and unadulterated [censored].

The French among others have been trying desperately to "prove" that Lance is doped up....because they can't STAND the idea of a hated American winning "their" race...esp. one from Texas where the hated pres Bush is also from (get the picture yet?)

What made Lance succeed five and soon to be six times in a row? Not drugs....but the will to win. And that IMO came from the fact that he has met death and survived. Having survived a near certain death sentence, and fueled by endorphins, is an all or nothing combination.

HellonWheels said:

The French among others have been trying desperately to "prove" that Lance is doped up....because they can't STAND the idea of a hated American winning "their" race...esp. one from Texas where the hated pres Bush is also from (get the picture yet?)

.

I think you're being a little unfair here...so far some of Lance's major accusers have NOT been French. They have been IRISH and AMERICAN....

And somehow, I just think maybe that the French nation might have sufficient sophistication to figure out that sometimes non-French people compete in the Tour de France.

talking about marion jones, you're definitely not informed: after playing college basketball for several year, she went back to track and field in 1997, with a stunning 10.76 on 100m and 21.76 over 200m. Not a bad performance considering the lack of specific preparation. The next year was even better (with more specific training) with 10.65, 21.62. But from then on, her times went worse every single year.

The reason? I hope everybody knows that steroids are pretty commonly accepted in (college) basketball in the US. Esp. in the 90ies the US was very liberal on the use of doping in any sports.

Brunswick_kate said:

Proof?

I don't think any sentence starting with "I heard rumours....." constitutes anything resembling proof. And the man was right when he said "Extraordinary accusations should require extraordinary proof".

So far NO ONE has come up with anything other than rumours, speculation, gossip, innuendo and unadulterated [censored].

I heard HIS doctor telling me about some stuff that he had to provide. I'm sorry I didn't ask for a written proof, his doping schemes or a taped confession from Lance himself.

I don't care about writing a book, I just have my own opinion about some performances in the TdF.

13001 said:

I heard HIS doctor telling me about some stuff that he had to provide. I'm sorry I didn't ask for a written proof, his doping schemes or a taped confession from Lance himself.

I don't care about writing a book, I just have my own opinion about some performances in the TdF.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. And "his doctor", if he was flapping his lips about the "some stuff he provided" is first and foremost in violation of professional ethics...real doctors actually have this thing called patient confidentiality and violating it is an excellent way to get your licence yanked. Most of them, the ones who actually graduated from medical school, know this. The ones who don't know it rather lack something in the credibility department.

13001 said:

The reason? I hope everybody knows that steroids are pretty commonly accepted in (college) basketball in the US. Esp. in the 90ies the US was very liberal on the use of doping in any sports.

What in the hell are you talking about? Steroids are pretty commonly accepted in (college) basketball in the US? Accepted by who? The cheats who perpetuate this fraud upon us? (Hello Major League Baseball). I would wager the vast majority of people who follow sports, who are avid supporters of their teams and sports heros do not accept this behavior, rather they are repulsed by it. While doping surely is going on, to make the blanket statement that taking steroids is a commonly accepted practice, I would offer perhaps it is you that is uninformed.

13001 said:

Lance is a great athlete. Very professional, smart and 200% devoted to cycling, and surrounded by professional. The question remains if he's 'natural' or enhanced by drugs.

If you look at performances in endurance sports, like running and cycling, you can notice an incredible boost in performance, by subtop and top. In both running and cylcing. The top 10 performers have improved between 2 and 5 % over only 15 years time, which is more than can be explained by better training, nutrition, tactics etc. Only endurance-boosting drugs can explain this. With this I don't think it's fair to accuse every single top or subtop (endurance) athlete.

Lance's feels his 'proof' of pureness lays in the fact that he's had numerous controls, but has never been positive. However, the in-competition controls have seldom proved to be efficient. Team doctors and labs know exactly what to do to dope their athletes without testing positive. Numerous cases confirm this: Festina in the 1998 Tour dF, and the recent Balco affair in the USA where world class athletes like Chaimbers, Edwards, White and others confessed using designer drugs. No one has been caught for this drug during last year's World Championship.

I've heard rumors about Lance Armstrong using synthetic hemoglobine to enhance his VO2max. A doctor who used to be in the Tour confirmed me this rumor. I don't say it's true, but i also don't see any reason why he would be more 'catholic than the pope himself'...

You ask yourself why in the last 15 years has improvement occurred? Remember that it has been for the last 15 years that hypoxic tents, which improve red blood cell count and high altitude adaptability, have been in increasingly common use among elite endurance athletes. In fact, the manufacturers will claim that the entire amount you point to--2% to 5%--can be explained by hypoxic sleeping environments. Yes, they make that much difference, according to the manufacturers. I don't know how you come up with the 2 to 5%, but it seems to be entirely in line with the improvement you would expect from this new technology, which is entirely legal and permitted. It is not considered doping, but the results are much like EPO without the dangerous risks of heart failure.

It seems that if you are going to make a case for doping, you would need a bigger spread than 2 to 5%.

gntlmn said:

You ask yourself why in the last 15 years has improvement occurred? Remember that it has been for the last 15 years that hypoxic tents, which improve red blood cell count and high altitude adaptability, have been in increasingly common use among elite endurance athletes. In fact, the manufacturers will claim that the entire amount you point to--2% to 5%--can be explained by hypoxic sleeping environments. Yes, they make that much difference, according to the manufacturers. I don't know how you come up with the 2 to 5%, but it seems to be entirely in line with the improvement you would expect from this new technology, which is entirely legal and permitted. It is not considered doping, but the results are much like EPO without the dangerous risks of heart failure.

It seems that if you are going to make a case for doping, you would need a bigger spread than 2 to 5%.

Exactly. This has all been discussed time and time again. Is he or isnt he. Its always LA who pops up when a drugs in cycling discussion is taking place. There are many other successful cyclists, but they never seem to be suspected of taking drugs! Bearing in mind that Lance pretty much dedicates his training schedule to one race - the TDF - I think its reasonable to assume he is clean, using legal methods and just very focussed saving himself, mainly for the tour.

In my opinion the tour is 70% mental, 20% physical and 10% luck you dont crash out!

Kindly explain the role of the team and why there are many former team Postal riders in the peleton.

If Lance was using banned methods, he would have to keep a tight lip all around the peleton.

If there were someone using banned methods, I would look at the newer riders who are excelling. And look at Lance in the off-season.

13001 said:

I heard HIS doctor telling me about some stuff that he had to provide. I'm sorry I didn't ask for a written proof, his doping schemes or a taped confession from Lance himself.

I don't care about writing a book, I just have my own opinion about some performances in the TdF.

Listen to yourself. "I heard his doctor telling me about some stuff that he had to provide....". The beginning of your sentence implies you overheard something and the latter part implies it was you he was talking to.

I can smell something.....

what is it....

Could it be.....

Surely not....

oh yes......

Its [censored]!!!

Weisse Luft said:

Kindly explain the role of the team and why there are many former team Postal riders in the peleton.

If Lance was using banned methods, he would have to keep a tight lip all around the peleton.

If there were someone using banned methods, I would look at the newer riders who are excelling. And look at Lance in the off-season.

They do look at Lance during the off season. He is subject to rules requiring him to submit to random drug testing which can happen any time of day, even in the wee hours of the morning, 365 days a year. He has to report every travel move he makes to cycling authorities so that they can reach him if he is drawn for a random drug test. He has always tested clean.

13001 said:

I heard HIS doctor telling me about some stuff that he had to provide. I'm sorry I didn't ask for a written proof, his doping schemes or a taped confession from Lance himself.

I don't care about writing a book, I just have my own opinion about some performances in the TdF.

So, do you base your "opinions" on fact or fiction? 😕

I have been a fan of Lance since after his leaving Subaru-Montgomery to join Motorola where lance really began to experience victory. Most notably the Tour duPont. Think about it people, his body had evolved a particular way due to the nature of his training. Correct me if I am wrong (and I'm not) at one point swimming and running were a brief part of LA's training regiment. He never really actually had a fondness for either ,however. Trainers did not possess the vast knowledge about the healthiest and best ways to train as they do today. Bam!!!!!! All of sudden Lance is stricken with cancer. Forget aboiut fighting your way up a Mt. on Sub 20lb. piece of metal. Now your really fighting. FOR YOUR LIFE. Cancer eats away your very person. Physically and mentally. It deprives you of all faculties and dignity. You learn what it is like to finally know what it means to be mortal. Lance fights, and survives rebuilding his body utilizing the latest technologies (and I am not referring to doping enhancements) to rebuild himself (damn this is starting to sound a lot like the 6million dollar man). Do you think the 1980's USA Hockey team was doping when they did the unimagineable, the unthinkable and beat the Russians? Did you suspect they were doping? If you are old enough to rememer, probably not. Why would you suspect otherwise of Lance on such an unimagineable, unthinkable feat (Greg Lemond)-SIX TDF VICTORIES.

1. I don't see how performance-enhancing drugs could help a hockey team beat another one...but I don't really know about hockey and this is a moot point.

2. The reason that some people believe Lance is doping is precisely because of his stunning recovery from cancer.

keydates said:

1. I don't see how performance-enhancing drugs could help a hockey team beat another one...but I don't really know about hockey and this is a moot point.

his 2. The reason that some people believe Lance is doping is precisely because of stunning recovery from cancer.

The Russians training regiment was all about stamina & endurance. They could outlast anyone and they always attacked never waited to defend. The Americans had to train harder than the Russians. They had to be better prepared than the Russians. When it came down to it the Americans were better prepared for their task than anyone else due to training not drugs. So too is Lance. That was my point.

pobserver03 said:

So, do you base your "opinions" on fact or fiction? 😕

Whatever you say, pal. I'm a coach myself, and i do understand the abc of physiology and methodology. I've also done endurance sports myself at an international subtop level. I do know a lot of top athletes and coaches and their methodologies.

BTW, what do you think - do they give these cyclists extra iron supplies shots every week or not?

steve007 said:

In my opinion the tour is 70% mental, 20% physical and 10% luck you dont crash out!

Nice thinking, pal. Better call the hospital when you ever start thinking about doing some sports. Or a shrink...