Lance - more upper-body?

[Larry Chapman]

Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
it negatively affected his climbing.

-- LSC

 

[psycholist]

"Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
> of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
> cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
> not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
> started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
> it negatively affected his climbing.
>
> -- LSC
>
>

I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so many
years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some sort
of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the most
massive lungs on the planet.

Tomorrow we'll begin to find out if it'll affect his climbing.

Bob C.

 

[Andy Coggan]

"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
> > of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
> > cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
> > not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
> > started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
> > it negatively affected his climbing.
> >
> > -- LSC
> >
> >
>
> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
many
> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
sort
> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the most
> massive lungs on the planet.

Training (except perhaps for swimming) does not increase vital capacity, and
having a large vital capacity does not confer any advantage in aerobic
sports. From this we can conclude that Armstrong's lungs are probably no
larger than those of any other 32 year old of comparable build.

Andy Coggan

 

[Bob in CT]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:13:54 GMT, Andy Coggan <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
>> > of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
>> > cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
>> > not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
>> > started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
>> > it negatively affected his climbing.
>> >
>> > -- LSC
>> >
>> >
>>
>> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
> many
>> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
> sort
>> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the
>> most
>> massive lungs on the planet.
>
> Training (except perhaps for swimming) does not increase vital capacity,
> and
> having a large vital capacity does not confer any advantage in aerobic
> sports. From this we can conclude that Armstrong's lungs are probably no
> larger than those of any other 32 year old of comparable build.
>
> Andy Coggan
>
>

And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks almost
freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume much larger
than average? Lance seems to be the same to me -- genetically gifted with
large lung volume.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

 

[Andy Coggan]

"Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 19:13:54 GMT, Andy Coggan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> "Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >> > Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
> >> > of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
> >> > cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
> >> > not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
> >> > started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body,
and
> >> > it negatively affected his climbing.
> >> >
> >> > -- LSC
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
> > many
> >> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
> > sort
> >> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the
> >> most
> >> massive lungs on the planet.
> >
> > Training (except perhaps for swimming) does not increase vital capacity,
> > and
> > having a large vital capacity does not confer any advantage in aerobic
> > sports. From this we can conclude that Armstrong's lungs are probably no
> > larger than those of any other 32 year old of comparable build.
> >
> > Andy Coggan
> >
> >
>
> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks almost
> freakish to me.

Tons - especially when you consider that Armstrong looks "freakish" only
when he tries to bend over some handlebars.

> Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume much larger
> than average?

I don't know, but Indurain was a big guy, so you'd expect him to have a lung
volume of 7 L or more.

> Lance seems to be the same to me -- genetically gifted with
> large lung volume.

It's a "gift" only if you play a woodwind instrument - but for a cyclist,
it's practically meaningless.

Andy Coggan

 

[gym gravity]

Bob in CT wrote:

>
> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume
> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
> genetically gifted with large lung volume.
>

Mikel Astarloza - 7.98 litres (highest measured at pre race checks...2004)

Marco Milesi - 7.74 litres (2003)

Giuseppe Guerini - 8.69litres (2002 maybe he took up smoking since?)


Average respiratory capacity 2004,2003,2002 : 5.74,5.67,6.62
respectively (maybe everyone took up smoking since?)

 

[Larry Chapman]

Lance's documented "genetic advantage" is a super-high
lactic-acid threshold.

-- LSC


"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
> > of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
> > cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
> > not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
> > started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
> > it negatively affected his climbing.
> >
> > -- LSC
> >
> >
>
> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
many
> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
sort
> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the most
> massive lungs on the planet.
>
> Tomorrow we'll begin to find out if it'll affect his climbing.
>
> Bob C.
>
>
>

 

[Bob in CT]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:58:51 -0400, gym gravity <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Bob in CT wrote:
>
>>
>> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
>> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume
>> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
>> genetically gifted with large lung volume.
>>
>
> Mikel Astarloza - 7.98 litres (highest measured at pre race
> checks...2004)
>
> Marco Milesi - 7.74 litres (2003)
>
> Giuseppe Guerini - 8.69litres (2002 maybe he took up smoking since?)
>
>
> Average respiratory capacity 2004,2003,2002 : 5.74,5.67,6.62
> respectively (maybe everyone took up smoking since?)

A one liter (or litre) is a pretty good advantage. Of course, you still
need a high tolerance for pain, great VO2 max, good power-to-weight ratio,
great recuperation, etc.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

 

[Andy Coggan]

"Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:58:51 -0400, gym gravity <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Bob in CT wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
> >> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume
> >> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
> >> genetically gifted with large lung volume.
> >>
> >
> > Mikel Astarloza - 7.98 litres (highest measured at pre race
> > checks...2004)
> >
> > Marco Milesi - 7.74 litres (2003)
> >
> > Giuseppe Guerini - 8.69litres (2002 maybe he took up smoking since?)
> >
> >
> > Average respiratory capacity 2004,2003,2002 : 5.74,5.67,6.62
> > respectively (maybe everyone took up smoking since?)
>
> A one liter (or litre) is a pretty good advantage.

Like I said, it might be an advantage if you play a woodwind instrument for
a living. Otherwise, it doesn't mean much.

Andy ("my VC is 5.7 L/min, but you don't see me riding the TdF") Coggan

 

[Bob in CT]

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:16:22 GMT, Andy Coggan <[email protected]>
wrote:

> "Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:58:51 -0400, gym gravity
>> <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Bob in CT wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
>> >> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume
>> >> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
>> >> genetically gifted with large lung volume.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Mikel Astarloza - 7.98 litres (highest measured at pre race
>> > checks...2004)
>> >
>> > Marco Milesi - 7.74 litres (2003)
>> >
>> > Giuseppe Guerini - 8.69litres (2002 maybe he took up smoking since?)
>> >
>> >
>> > Average respiratory capacity 2004,2003,2002 : 5.74,5.67,6.62
>> > respectively (maybe everyone took up smoking since?)
>>
>> A one liter (or litre) is a pretty good advantage.
>
> Like I said, it might be an advantage if you play a woodwind instrument
> for
> a living. Otherwise, it doesn't mean much.
>
> Andy ("my VC is 5.7 L/min, but you don't see me riding the TdF") Coggan
>
>

With all due respect, I disagree. A larger lung capacity means that you
can bring in more oxygen. If you can bring in more O2, then you can also
process it (hopefully). One liter is a large amount.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

 

[Dan Connelly]

Bob in CT wrote:
>
> With all due respect, I disagree. A larger lung capacity means that you
> can bring in more oxygen. If you can bring in more O2, then you can
> also process it (hopefully). One liter is a large amount.
>

In cycling, unlike woodwinds, you can breath more rapidly to get more O2.

Dan

 

[Andy Coggan]

"Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]...
> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:16:22 GMT, Andy Coggan <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > "Bob in CT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news[email protected]...
> >> On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 15:58:51 -0400, gym gravity
> >> <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bob in CT wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
> >> >> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung
volume
> >> >> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
> >> >> genetically gifted with large lung volume.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Mikel Astarloza - 7.98 litres (highest measured at pre race
> >> > checks...2004)
> >> >
> >> > Marco Milesi - 7.74 litres (2003)
> >> >
> >> > Giuseppe Guerini - 8.69litres (2002 maybe he took up smoking since?)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Average respiratory capacity 2004,2003,2002 : 5.74,5.67,6.62
> >> > respectively (maybe everyone took up smoking since?)
> >>
> >> A one liter (or litre) is a pretty good advantage.
> >
> > Like I said, it might be an advantage if you play a woodwind instrument
> > for
> > a living. Otherwise, it doesn't mean much.
> >
> > Andy ("my VC is 5.7 L/min, but you don't see me riding the TdF") Coggan
> >
> >
>
> With all due respect, I disagree. A larger lung capacity means that you
> can bring in more oxygen.

Not necessarily - total ventilation is the product of both inspired volume
and breathing frequency, so having a larger lung capacity doesn't
automatically translate into a higher MVV (maximal voluntary ventilation).
Furthermore, very few individuals ever approach their MVV during exercise
anyway.

> If you can bring in more O2, then you can also
> process it (hopefully).

Hoping doesn't make it so. Elite athletes with very high VO2max values
sometimes do have problems maintaining 100% saturation of arterial blood
with O2 during intense exercise, but even in those who do not, it isn't due
to having lungs that are too small.

Andy Coggan

 

[Tom Kunich]

"Larry Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has anyone else noticed that Lance seems to have re-gained some
> of his upper-body muscle mass that he lost during his bout with
> cancer? I'm only judging this off some brief TV looks. This might
> not bode well for his climbing ability. I remember when Greg Lemond
> started skate-skiing in the off season and put on some upper body, and
> it negatively affected his climbing.

I noted that several months ago and it illicited not a single response if
memory serves.

 

[Tom Kunich]

"psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
many
> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
sort
> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the most
> massive lungs on the planet.

I'm not all that sure of that. When I went in to have the chest x-ray for my
gas poisoning there was a hullabaloo about them having to use two photos for
me and they'd never had to do that before. Since it was at the Cal Medical
Center in San Francisco I'm sure that they had a pretty large pool of
previous customers.

Mind you, having very large lungs is not the same thing as having a large
VO2max and I suspect mine is rather average to say the least.

 

[AMG]

>> >> And how many 32 year olds of comparable build are there? He looks
>> >> almost freakish to me. Didn't Indurain supposedly have a lung volume
>> >> much larger than average? Lance seems to be the same to me --
>> >> genetically gifted with large lung volume.

According to Michael Specter's profile of LA in the New Yorker (July 15,
2002, "The Long Ride," see http://www.michaelspecter.com/ny/index.html,
fourth pdf down), Lance's heart is "almost a third larger than that of an
average man." This would probably enhance the transport of oxygen to the
muscles, the better to produce power at the wheels. LA's resting heart
rate was given as 32 bpm. Any slower, and he would be a corpse. (Can you
be eliminated from the tour for that reason?)

Other than that, the article is a nice read, IMHO.

AMG

 

[Carl Sundquist]

"AMG" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
>
> LA's resting heart
> rate was given as 32 bpm. Any slower, and he would be a corpse.

Sez who?

Mine was 30 at one point. I remember Jimmy Carter's was claimed to be 29
when he was president and running for exercise.

 

[Howard Kveck]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "AMG" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> >
> > LA's resting heart
> > rate was given as 32 bpm. Any slower, and he would be a corpse.
>
> Sez who?
>
> Mine was 30 at one point. I remember Jimmy Carter's was claimed to be 29
> when he was president and running for exercise.

I recall seeing Indurain's listed as being between 26 and 28. Does RHR
really have anything to do with performance on the bike?

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

 

[David Miller]

Ah...the respiratory system is complicated....

You can breathe as much oxygen as you want, but if the pump (the heart) is
not working efficiently, or there are not enough "box cars" (hemoglobin in
RBCs) to deliver the oxygen all is for naught. Furthermore, there are
mitochondrial abnomalities (maternally inherited) that lower the anaerobic
threshold...I am not aware of any mitochondrial abnormalities that "raise"
the threshold...but just becasue they are not known does not mean they do
not exist.

To say that LA succeeds because he has big lungs is like saying pam
anderson succeeds because she has...well...big lungs. It's the entire
package.

dem

> "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I noticed it and commented on it last year. You gotta figure that, so
> many
>> years out from his cancer, his body would have to be moving toward some
> sort
>> of equilibrium. Regardless, that large upper body houses some of the
>> most
>> massive lungs on the planet.
>
> I'm not all that sure of that. When I went in to have the chest x-ray
> for my
> gas poisoning there was a hullabaloo about them having to use two photos
> for
> me and they'd never had to do that before. Since it was at the Cal
> Medical
> Center in San Francisco I'm sure that they had a pretty large pool of
> previous customers.
>
> Mind you, having very large lungs is not the same thing as having a large
> VO2max and I suspect mine is rather average to say the least.
>
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

 

[Jim Flom]

"Tom Kunich" wrote...
>
> Mind you, having very large lungs is not the same thing as having a large
> VO2max

.... nor is it the same as having very large breasts.

> and I suspect mine is rather average to say the least.

Your, um, what now...?

 

[lewdvig]

"Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "AMG" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> > >
> > > LA's resting heart
> > > rate was given as 32 bpm. Any slower, and he would be a corpse.
> >
> > Sez who?
> >
> > Mine was 30 at one point. I remember Jimmy Carter's was claimed to be 29
> > when he was president and running for exercise.
>
> I recall seeing Indurain's listed as being between 26 and 28. Does RHR
> really have anything to do with performance on the bike?

Nope. Mine is 45 and I suck.