Lance's offroad diversion and helping riders

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Adam Bender, Jul 26, 2004.

  1. Adam Bender

    Adam Bender Guest

    I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last year's
    TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course (a sharp
    turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going through the whole
    course by doing something like this?
    Also, I've seen a lot of footage of people in cars helping riders while
    they're racing. Some aren't even pedaling, such as a guy who had his foot
    in a car window for the team doctor to examine. Is there some sort of
    policy for this, about how much a car can pull you along during the
    course?

    Thanks,

    Adam
     
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  2. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Adam Bender wrote:
    :: I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last
    :: year's TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course
    :: (a sharp turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going
    :: through the whole course by doing something like this?

    Do you really think this made a bit of difference on a course that is likely
    100+ miles long? Also, he nearly crashed by going off course like that. No
    bike rider in his/her right mind would do that on purpose.

    :: Also, I've seen a lot of footage of people in cars helping riders
    :: while they're racing. Some aren't even pedaling, such as a guy who
    :: had his foot in a car window for the team doctor to examine. Is
    :: there some sort of policy for this, about how much a car can pull
    :: you along during the course?
    ::
    :: Thanks,
    ::
    :: Adam
     
  3. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "Adam Bender" <[email protected]> wrote

    > Also, I've seen a lot of footage of people in cars helping riders while
    > they're racing. Some aren't even pedaling, such as a guy who had his foot
    > in a car window for the team doctor to examine. Is there some sort of
    > policy for this, about how much a car can pull you along during the
    > course?
    >


    Rules for the Tour
    http://www.letour.fr/2004/us/reglement.html

    If you look closely when the team car hands out a waterbottle or food,
    you'll see him give the rider a little pull along.

    Pete
     
  4. Adam Bender

    Adam Bender Guest

    On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Roger Zoul wrote:

    > Adam Bender wrote:
    > :: I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last
    > :: year's TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course
    > :: (a sharp turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going
    > :: through the whole course by doing something like this?
    >
    > Do you really think this made a bit of difference on a course that is likely
    > 100+ miles long? Also, he nearly crashed by going off course like that. No
    > bike rider in his/her right mind would do that on purpose.
    >


    No I don't think it made any difference, but then again I'm not the person
    who writes or enforces Tour rules, so my opinion doesn't count. I wanted
    to know what an "official" view of it was. And he did it to avoid a
    crash, so maybe it was the less riskier of the two choices. I had heard
    he'd also been training with some cyclocross, which could have helped him,
    but overall I think it's just another small example of why LA is the
    greatest athlete of all time.

    Adam
     
  5. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:07:11 -0400 (EDT), Adam Bender
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last year's
    >TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course (a sharp
    >turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going through the whole
    >course by doing something like this?


    I don't know the official ruling, but the gist of it was that the
    off-course riding was not deliberate and was in response to another
    rider's problems so Armstrong wouldn't be penalized.
     
  6. S o r n i

    S o r n i Guest

    Dan Daniel wrote:
    > On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:07:11 -0400 (EDT), Adam Bender
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >> I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last
    >> year's TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course
    >> (a sharp turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going
    >> through the whole course by doing something like this?

    >
    > I don't know the official ruling, but the gist of it was that the
    > off-course riding was not deliberate and was in response to another
    > rider's problems so Armstrong wouldn't be penalized.


    Exactly right. Also, he did NOT gain any time advantage over the other
    riders, who actually more or less WAITED for him to emerge from the field
    and resume riding.

    Bill "not like he cut a corner to gain on rivals" S.
     
  7. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Adam Bender wrote:
    :: On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Roger Zoul wrote:
    ::
    ::: Adam Bender wrote:
    ::::: I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last
    ::::: year's TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the
    ::::: course (a sharp turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not
    ::::: going through the whole course by doing something like this?
    :::
    ::: Do you really think this made a bit of difference on a course that
    ::: is likely 100+ miles long? Also, he nearly crashed by going off
    ::: course like that. No bike rider in his/her right mind would do
    ::: that on purpose.
    :::
    ::
    :: No I don't think it made any difference, but then again I'm not the
    :: person who writes or enforces Tour rules, so my opinion doesn't
    :: count. I wanted to know what an "official" view of it was. And he
    :: did it to avoid a crash, so maybe it was the less riskier of the two
    :: choices. I had heard he'd also been training with some cyclocross,
    :: which could have helped him, but overall I think it's just another
    :: small example of why LA is the greatest athlete of all time.

    Yes, from the look of it he had no choice but to go off the course. I had
    not heard it has been into cyclocross, though. Do you think he has future
    plans along those lines? I do wonder where LA rates on the greatest athlete
    scale. He seems pretty amazing to me...but then, so do all those bicyclist
    at the TdF level.
     
  8. Adam Bender

    Adam Bender Guest

    Subject: Re: Lance's offroad diversion and helping riders


    On Mon, 26 Jul 2004, Roger Zoul wrote:

    > Yes, from the look of it he had no choice but to go off the course. I
    > had not heard it has been into cyclocross, though. Do you think he has
    > future plans along those lines?


    I had read that in a cycling mag over the winter, from someone who had
    done cyclocross training with LA, mostly to add variety to his training.
    He made the comment that it must have helped him not kill himself when he
    did this. :) The gist seemed to be that he did this only sparingly and
    for training only, though who's to say?

    > I do wonder where LA rates on the greatest athlete
    > scale. He seems pretty amazing to me...but then, so do all those
    > bicyclist at the TdF level.


    Yes, they are all amazing - and even more amazing is that one of them won
    6 years in a row. He is the epitome of ridiculously great. He's the best
    among a groupg of athletes that are better than almost every other
    athlete. Granted it's hard to make a comparison with some other greats
    like Joe Montana and Bae Ruth... but then, a Superbowl's only 60 minutes,
    isn't it? ;)

    Adam
     
  9. dave

    dave Guest

    On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 11:07:11 -0400, Adam Bender wrote:

    >
    > I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last year's
    > TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course (a sharp
    > turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going through the whole
    > course by doing something like this?


    I believe the official ruling at the time was that "he had gained no
    competitive advantage" therefore no penalty was assessed.


    -=Dave=-
     
  10. byron27

    byron27 New Member

    Joined:
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    What he did was pure reaction and anyone who spends a lot of time on a bike would do similar.
     
  11. Adam Bender wrote:
    > I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last year's
    > TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course (a sharp
    > turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going through the whole
    > course by doing something like this?


    He lost both time and position in the process. He and Beloki were
    trying to chase down Vinokourov who was well ahead when Beloki
    crashed. Vino got further ahead during the incident and a few guys
    that were behind him (including Ullrich) passed him before he could
    get back on the bike and start moving again. Many forms of racing,
    not just bicycles, will not penalize you further for going off
    course if you lose time and position by doing so. Moreover, he did
    it to avoid colliding with Beloki. It would be wrong to penalize
    him for that.
     
  12. Neil Cherry

    Neil Cherry Guest

    On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:08:27 +1000, byron27 wrote:
    >
    > Adam Bender Wrote:
    >> I had heard he'd also been training with some cyclocross, which could
    >> have helped him, but overall I think it's just another small example of
    >> why LA is the greatest athlete of all time.


    > What he did was pure reaction and anyone who spends a lot of time on a
    > bike would do similar.


    I'm not sure how true that is (the "anyone who spends a lot of
    time..." part) because I've riden with a bunch of folks who have the
    years and a few who were racers and they can not handle off road on a
    road bike.

    Others who have spent time on mtn bikes (and off road) and ride road
    bikes have much better handling skills. They handle 'going off road'
    much better. This is especially true when an accident occurs and the
    ride would have gone down.

    --
    Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry [email protected]
    http://home.comcast.net/~ncherry/ (Text only)
    http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge)
    http://hcs.sourceforge.net/ (HCS II)
     
  13. From: [email protected] (Pete)
    "Adam Bender"

    >Rules for the Tour
    >http://www.letour.fr/2004/us/reglement.html


    >If you look closely when the team car
    >hands out a waterbottle or food, you'll
    >see him give the rider a little pull along.


    >Pete


    I like:

    "Article 19: RAILROAD crossing
    It is forbidden for riders to cross railroad crossings when the barrier
    is down.
    Any riders not complying with this requirement are disqualified from the
    race by the commissaires."

    ...or the train! LOL

    - -

    "May you have the wind at your back.
    And a really low gear for the hills!"

    Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

    Chris'Z Corner
    http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  14. On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 23:37:56 -0700, Bill Davidson wrote:

    > Adam Bender wrote:
    >> I finally saw the full clip of Lance's offroad scramble in last year's
    >> TdF a while ago. It looks like he cut out some of the course (a sharp
    >> turn); could there possibly be a penalty for not going through the whole
    >> course by doing something like this?

    >
    > He lost both time and position in the process. He and Beloki were
    > trying to chase down Vinokourov who was well ahead when Beloki
    > crashed. Vino got further ahead during the incident and a few guys
    > that were behind him (including Ullrich) passed him before he could
    > get back on the bike and start moving again. Many forms of racing,
    > not just bicycles, will not penalize you further for going off
    > course if you lose time and position by doing so. Moreover, he did
    > it to avoid colliding with Beloki. It would be wrong to penalize
    > him for that.


    This raises a question I've wanted to ask for awhile:

    Beloki crashed when his rear tire separated from the wheel at
    50ish miles per hour.

    Given how light and how good clinchers are these days, why do top
    riders still bother with the mess (and the risk) of tubulars?

    --
    Chris BeHanna
    Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.)
    [email protected]
    I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs.
     
  15. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    Chris BeHanna <[email protected]> wrote:

    > This raises a question I've wanted to ask for awhile:
    >
    > Beloki crashed when his rear tire separated from the wheel at
    > 50ish miles per hour.


    This has been discussed to death. The tire peeling off the rim was
    the result of the bike getting sideways on a slick patch of tar, and
    wasn't the cause of the accident in any way. Watch the tape and it's
    obvious - he lost the rear end of the bike, the rear tire peeled off
    the rim when it regained traction (albeit sideways), vaulting the rear
    end of the bike up and over the opposite direction.

    Ugly crash, but the problem was simply too much speed and too little
    traction (something Lance - who was right behind Beloki - confirms).

    Mark Hickey
    Habanero Cycles
    http://www.habcycles.com
    Home of the $695 ti frame
     
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