Lane seeding

Micheal Artindale said:

I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
should be used for fastest to slowest?

Does it realy matter what lane you are in?

Nowadays, I think it makes no difference in terms of turbulence, given the improvements in laneline
and gutter technology. The outer lanes should have lanelines on both sides. What is important is to
be able to see the other swimmers, so being in the middle is better from that point of view.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.

are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.

as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these days
combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.

case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are really
equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside, lane, you'sa
might have some trouble.

Steve

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
should be used for fastest to slowest?

Does it realy matter what lane you are in?

diablo left this mess on Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:08:26 -0600 for The Way to clean
up:

Quoted message said:

are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.

as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these days
combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.

case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are really
equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside, lane,
you'sa might have some trouble.

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than
sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

On 22 Feb 2004 15:00:32 -0800, de Valois <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

diablo left this mess on Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:08:26 -0600 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.

as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these
days combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.

case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are
really equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside,
lane, you'sa might have some trouble.

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other
than sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

The incentive is to get into the finals.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... [...]

Quoted message said:

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other
than sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e., do
only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort. Their
penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.

From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8 swims
away with the race.

- Al

I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back at
night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1aa3e1f9719a8150989745@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... [...]

Quoted message said:

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology.

What's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the incentive in swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real

physical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than sighting other swimmers)? You

*ought* to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e., do
only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort. Their
penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.

From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8
swims away with the race.

- Al

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back
at night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top finishers
getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system - particularly
at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals. Certainly not a
strategy for the feint of heart, though :-)

- Al

sucks to be seeded first in the psyche sheet, then swim yourself into the consolation
final...seen it happen once or twice. saw a guy seeded first in the 100 by over a second end up
in the banana heat...

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1aa40a8431d1ece2989747@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of

swimming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just enough to get back at night - and those that do that are probably

fast

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4 lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top
finishers getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system -
particularly at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals.
Certainly not a strategy for the feint of heart, though :-)

- Al

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:MPG.1aa40a8431d1ece2989747@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of

swimming

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

just enough to get back at night - and those that do that are probably

fast

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4 lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top
finishers getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system -
particularly at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals.
Certainly not a strategy for the feint of heart, though :-)

- Al

Then there are multiple heats, so many people really get to swim in lanes 3 and 4. Just very few get
to swim in the lane 4 in a final heat of the event.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

sucks to be seeded first in the psyche sheet, then swim yourself into the consolation
final...seen it happen once or twice. saw a guy seeded first in the 100 by over a second end up
in the banana heat...

Yeah, that's a pretty gnarly outcome. What also sucks is to be one of those early heat, lane 8 guys
that breaks the world record in prelims at olympic trials, then doesn't make the team in finals
(although the world record remains intact.) (Kurt Krumpholtz, 1972 - I flew back on the same plane
as him to Santa Clara following the trials in Chicago... a flight full of bay area swimmers that
didn't make the team... man, that was quiet!)

- Al

depends if the heat is "circle seeded" or not

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
should be used for fastest to slowest?

Does it realy matter what lane you are in?

Mike Edey said:

Nope - the lane order still holds, it's just that everybody from one heat won't nec be seeded
faster then everybody from another. Whithin each heat the lane order is unchanged.

Masters meets in Adelaide just order all the entires by entry time, slowest to fastest, and then
deal them out eight at a time, slowest to fastest, men and women in the same event. I like that way
because then you usually get to race against people who are about your speed but a little faster.
But that's masters.

martin

Quoted message said:

--Mike

tbone said:

depends if the heat is "circle seeded" or not

"Micheal Artindale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8
that should be used for fastest to slowest?

Does it realy matter what lane you are in?

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.

In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
you already know whose on the bubble.

Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.

diablo left this mess on Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:39:41 -0600 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back
at night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

"Al" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MPG.1aa3e1f9719a8150989745@mayonews...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... [...]

Quoted message said:

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology.

What's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the incentive in swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real

physical

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than sighting other swimmers)? You

*ought* to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e.,
do only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort.
Their penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.

From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8
swims away with the race.

- Al

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
you already know whose on the bubble.

Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.

I tended to find myself, for whatever reason, in the final heat lots of times towards the middle
(although almost never in the middle at a big meet :-)... so in terms of seeding I wasn't usually so
far out of the money that I couldn't take advantage of mistakes/bad swims on the part of higher
seeded people in earlier heats. And if I happened to have a handle on how fast the guy in lane 4 was
likely to swim, I could sometimes get away with gambling on a 80 - 90% effort to have a little
something left over for finals - particularly if I was in a position to drag off of lane 4.

This was usually 200 fly for me - but the 100 was too much of a thrash for me to take chances
like that.

- Al

Al left this mess on Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:20:13 -0600 for The Way to clean up:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
you already know whose on the bubble.

Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.

I tended to find myself, for whatever reason, in the final heat lots of times towards the middle
(although almost never in the middle at a big meet :-)... so in terms of seeding I wasn't usually
so far out of the money that I couldn't take advantage of mistakes/bad swims on the part of higher
seeded people in earlier heats. And if I happened to have a handle on how fast the guy in lane 4
was likely to swim, I could sometimes get away with gambling on a 80 - 90% effort to have a little
something left over for finals - particularly if I was in a position to drag off of lane 4.

This was usually 200 fly for me - but the 100 was too much of a thrash for me to take chances
like that.

I suspect this strategy works better (and might even be more effective) for longer races, true.

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif