Road Cycling · Public discussion

largest drug bust EVER!

Oscar Mannheim · 2003-10-18T16:48:38+00:00

And it's NOT cycling! So I guess these news are kind of good news. "I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this involving the number of athletes involved," anti-doping official Terry Madden, director of the U.S Anti-Doping Agency, told The Associated Press. "What we have uncovered appears to be intentional doping of the worst sort," Madden said during a telephone news conference. He called the case "a conspiracy involving chemists, coaches and certain athletes to defraud their competitors, and the American and world public who pay to attend sporting events." http://espn.go.com/oly/news/2003/1016/1639608.html

Started by Oscar Mannheim · 18 October 2003 · Last activity 24 October 2003 · 16 posts · 4,897 views

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01 / Original postlargest drug bust EVER!Oscar Mannheim · 18 Oct 2003 02 / This pagePosts 1–16Page 1 of 1 · chronological order 03 / Latest replyPost #16Bob Schwartz · 24 Oct 2003

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Original section: Road Cycling
Published: 18 October 2003
Last activity: 24 October 2003
Original author: Oscar Mannheim
Posts: 16
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 4,897
Views / 30 days: 0

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Original post
Oscar Mannheim
Archived post

18 October 2003, 16:48 UTC #1

And it's NOT cycling! So I guess these news are kind of good news.
"I know of no other drug bust that is larger than this involving the number of athletes involved,"
anti-doping official Terry Madden, director of the
U.S Anti-Doping Agency, told The Associated Press.
"What we have uncovered appears to be intentional doping of the worst sort," Madden said during a
telephone news conference. He called the case "a conspiracy involving chemists, coaches and certain
athletes to defraud their competitors, and the American and world public who pay to attend sporting
events." espn.go.com1639608.html

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Swampy
Archived post

18 October 2003, 19:17 UTC #2

In article <[email hidden]>,
Oscar Mannheim said:
And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet

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Oscar Mannheim
Archived post

18 October 2003, 19:17 UTC #3

Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

18 October 2003, 19:17 UTC #4

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Dumbass -
It doesn't seem to be very likely.
The sports for which steroids are very effective are the ones mentioned in the article - events
which success hinges upon explosive power output.
For an endurace sport like road cycling, the state-of-the-art programs deal with blood and oxygen
carrying capacity.

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Ken Papai
Archived post

18 October 2003, 22:17 UTC #5

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Oscar the Grouch Dumbass Mannheim has spoken.

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Lester Long
Archived post

18 October 2003, 22:17 UTC #6

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Dumbass -
It doesn't seem to be very likely.
The sports for which steroids are very effective are the ones mentioned in the article - events
which success hinges upon explosive power output.
For an endurace sport like road cycling, the state-of-the-art programs

deal
Quoted message said:
with blood and oxygen carrying capacity.
Steroids are different from blood-doping. You cyclists are a decade behind powerlifters and
bodybuilders. But you are catching up. 🙂
THG is a designer steroid, and most steroids make a man somewhat more like a woman, and vice versa.
It's far more complicated than that.
Also, I've communicated with Victor in the past, and saying that the athlete in question was a
client of his is like saying that the athlete also filed his taxes with the IRS, or that Nike is
implicated through the acts of Tiger Woods.
Regards, Lester

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

18 October 2003, 23:47 UTC #7

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
> > And it's NOT cycling!
>
> NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Dumbass -
It doesn't seem to be very likely.
The sports for which steroids are very effective are the ones mentioned

in
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the article - events which success hinges upon explosive power output.
For an endurace sport like road cycling, the state-of-the-art programs

deal
Quoted message said:
with blood and oxygen carrying capacity.
Steroids are different from blood-doping. You cyclists are a decade behind powerlifters and
bodybuilders. But you are catching up. 🙂
Dumbass -
That is the point.
Steroids are useful in endurance sports, but not nearly as much as the blood products.

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Oscar Mannheim
Archived post

19 October 2003, 13:47 UTC #8

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:dlikb.820867$uu5.144812@sccrnsc04...
Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
> And it's NOT cycling!
NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Oscar the Grouch Dumbass Mannheim has spoken.
Papai are only sour because this drug bust, the largest EVER, happen in the US and not in Europe.

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Lester Long
Archived post

19 October 2003, 13:47 UTC #9

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> > > And it's NOT cycling!
> >
> > NOT...yet
>
> What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Dumbass -
It doesn't seem to be very likely.
The sports for which steroids are very effective are the ones

mentioned
Quoted message said:
in
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the article - events which success hinges upon explosive power output.
For an endurace sport like road cycling, the state-of-the-art programs

deal
Quoted message said:
with blood and oxygen carrying capacity.
Steroids are different from blood-doping. You cyclists are a decade

behind
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
powerlifters and bodybuilders. But you are catching up. 🙂
Dumbass -
That is the point.
Steroids are useful in endurance sports, but not nearly as much as the

blood
Quoted message said:
products.
I think you are generally right, but blood products have lower detectability, which is why certain
sports favor them. At a certain level it gets more political that physiological.
Regards, Lester

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Clovis Lark
Archived post

19 October 2003, 17:47 UTC #10

Oscar Mannheim said:
"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> skrev i meddelandet news:dlikb.820867$uu5.144812@sccrnsc04...
Quoted message said:

"Oscar Mannheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
> > And it's NOT cycling!
>
> NOT...yet
What do you mean? Armstrong? We can only hope.......and pray
Oscar the Grouch Dumbass Mannheim has spoken.
Quoted message said:
Papai are only sour because this drug bust, the largest EVER, happen in the US and not in Europe.
Kahl-ee-forrrianz are bverrry vorrried dat dhis may eee-fekt the image off der neu gubenorrrr!

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Kurgan Gringion
Archived post

19 October 2003, 18:20 UTC #11

"Lester Long" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>
Steroids are different from blood-doping. You cyclists are a decade

behind
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
powerlifters and bodybuilders. But you are catching up. 🙂
Dumbass -
That is the point.
Steroids are useful in endurance sports, but not nearly as much as the

blood
Quoted message said:
products.
I think you are generally right, but blood products have lower detectability, which is why certain
sports favor them.
Dumbass -
In an endurance sport like cycling, increasing oxygen carrying capacity works better than
anything else.

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Marty
Archived post

20 October 2003, 03:18 UTC #12

Quoted message said:
Kahl-ee-forrrianz are bverrry vorrried dat dhis may eee-fekt the image off der neu gubenorrrr!
From Babel Fish - Arnold to English:
Californians are very worried that this may effect the image of their new swampy.
--
Marty

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Crank Yanker
Archived post

20 October 2003, 15:23 UTC #13

And we have the first names. The winners are Bonds and Giambi from baseball and Romanowski (no this
guy could never be on 'roids) from football.
sportsillustrated.cnn.comindex.html

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Tom Paterson
Archived post

20 October 2003, 16:41 UTC #14

Quoted message said:
From: [email hidden] (Crank Yanker)
Quoted message said:
sportsillustrated.cnn.comindex.html
Quoth Giambi, from above link:
<"I visit BALCO every three to six months. They check my blood to make sure my levels are where they
should be. Maybe I need to eat more broccoli than I normally do. Maybe my zinc and magnesium intakes
need to increase," Bonds said in the magazine. "Victor will call me to make sure I'm taking my
supplements, and my trainer Greg will sit near my locker and stare at me if I don't begin working
out right away. I have these guys pushing me.">
IMHO, inferior to the dog defense.
Will they leave him in the lineup? --TP

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Ken Prager
Archived post

21 October 2003, 02:49 UTC #15

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Tom
Paterson) said:
Quoted message said:
From: [email hidden] (Crank Yanker)
Quoted message said:
sportsillustrated.cnn.comindex.html
Quoth Giambi, from above link:
<"I visit BALCO every three to six months. They check my blood to make sure my levels are where
they should be. Maybe I need to eat more broccoli than I normally do. Maybe my zinc and magnesium
intakes need to increase," Bonds said in the magazine. "Victor will call me to make sure I'm
taking my supplements, and my trainer Greg will sit near my locker and stare at me if I don't
begin working out right away. I have these guys pushing me.">
IMHO, inferior to the dog defense.
Will they leave him in the lineup? --TP
Regarding Bonds, will they put an asterisk next to the single season HR record?
--
Remove _me_ for e-mail address

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Bob Schwartz
Archived post

24 October 2003, 15:45 UTC #16

Oscar Mannheim said:
And it's NOT cycling! So I guess these news are kind of good news.
I could remember discussion of designer steroids here from a long time back. I couldn't google up
the poster I was thinking of, but I did turn up this:
groups.google.comgroups
It dates from 1996 and those of us that remember Oliver Starr's contributions to this forum know
that he was not one to pull stuff like this out of a nether orifice.
Note that this approach to doping is similar to the one employed by Tammy Thomas in that both seek
to avoid detection through the use of a substance that the testers are not looking for.
My conclusion is that the use of designer steroids is much older news than many realize and that it
is highly unlikely that the sports touched by this particular bust accurately represent the extent
of the problem.
Bob Schwartz [email hidden]

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