Latest Research on Saddles



alienator

Well-Known Member
Jun 10, 2004
12,596
310
0
chero said:
“Do you have something objective to say, or can you only muster a pathetic, low, weak-minded, cowardly response?”

Ouch! Alienator, here is what seems to me to be inappropriate and potentially harmful in your post:

“And in what I can only say must be some exception to the overwhelming evidence (or so the marketeers want you to believe), my tackle works fine: no numbness; no failure to mobilize. Imagine that. Hmmm. I guess it just goes to show that saddles are a personal thing and that wild claims (like those by the hack designing the E3 saddle) are a bunch of ****. Everyone doesn't need what the E3, drooped nose, or cutout folks tell you that you need. People just need to find a saddle that works for them.”

You seemed to be saying that since you can ride a long time, that ED from riding is a doubtful proposition. That is sometimes called an “n of one experiment”, and frowned upon by most scientists. You later seem to be changing that to a complaint that people are contending that everyone is affected by bicycle-induced ED, but I haven’t gotten that impression from posts in this thread. The thrust of the commentary is that some people experience numbness, and if neglected, some go on to ED.

I am a person who experienced genital numbness, and then ED, after a few years of commuting 100 miles per week. Changing to the E3 solved my problem. I have no stake in this product, I just ride a bike to work. I got a new bike, and its (different) saddle also was great, no numbness, (making your point that it is not only the E3 that can be a solution, but other saddles as well).

So, if you want to be skeptical about the blood-flow evidence behind the E3, that is fair enough, I don’t find it definitive either (though I think it is a reasonable way to start looking at the problem). But where I think you do others a disservice is to imply that bicycling does not cause ED, or that it is so rare as to be inconsequential, and not worth trying to prevent.

And you also say: “If this were such a prominent issue, we would to see the problem in larger numbers. We'd expect to have seen it in the past.”

As a physician, I am aware of many examples of things (even common things) having been overlooked for a long time. In fact, in medicine there is a saying “You can’t see what you don’t know.” There are many examples, but perhaps the most dramatic is the fact that Helicobacter pylori is the cause of duodenal ulcers. This was missed on pathological sections for about 100 years, but once described, we can all see it now (Marshall and Warren just won the Nobel prize for seeing what they didn't didn’t know in advance).

So, if you don’t get numbness, that is great, and more power to you! And, I agree with you that this is probably the large majority of cyclists. But, those who do get numbness should do something to fix it. Dial in the seat position, stand up more, experiment with other saddles. Don’t ignore it.

Chero

Well, my example of myself was not an "n of one experiment" because I was just citing my own experience. The fact, however, that there hasn't been a statistically large number of cyclists is compelling: it suggests that the alleged problem is overstated. For the E3 and that "researcher's" specious methods, I'd say the problem wasn't even a concern: it was an excuse to pocket some dosh.

If you read my posts, you'll see that I emphasize fit and finding a comfy saddle. The vast majority of people can get a good bike fit and get a saddle that works, without resorting to something scientifically dodgy.

Scientifically dodgy? Yup, because the E3 hawkers make their point with measurement magnitudes w/out putting those magnitudes in the proper context. Big number? So what? What's the definition of an inadequate number? What's the lower limit to an acceptible number? Is there a time dependency?

Last, if you'd like to discuss my diabetes, then do so in a PM, Hack, rather than doing so in public. Bringing that up publically and in the context you used makes any objective view of yours about look pretty smarmy.
 

Meek One

New Member
May 5, 2004
629
0
0
So, I guess no one knows what the E5's riders weight limit is. :(

Now back to Scientist vs Physician Round 3...
 

RapDaddyo

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
5,088
82
48
79
Meek One said:
So, I guess no one knows what the E5's riders weight limit is. :(

Now back to Scientist vs Physician Round 3...
Well, let's see. On one side we have a physician, who should know a little something about how blood gets to the vital regions of the body, who has personally experienced the problem at issue and who has personal experience with the product at issue. On the other side, we have a very smart scientist, with unknown (to me, at least) credentials in medicine or physiology, who has never (to my knowledge) either experienced the problem at issue or used the product at issue. Let me see, tough choice there. It's a close call, but I think I'll take physician with specific experience and more relevant background.
 

Meek One

New Member
May 5, 2004
629
0
0
RapDaddyo said:
Well, let's see. On one side we have a physician, who should know a little something about how blood gets to the vital regions of the body, who has personally experienced the problem at issue and who has personal experience with the product at issue. On the other side, we have a very smart scientist, with unknown (to me, at least) credentials in medicine or physiology, who has never (to my knowledge) either experienced the problem at issue or used the product at issue. Let me see, tough choice there. It's a close call, but I think I'll take physician with specific experience and more relevant background.

So, the judge rules a TKO in the 3rd. :D
 

DanP

New Member
Oct 5, 2003
104
0
0
typ993 said:
Has anyone tried one of these on a bike on a trainer? I find that is my ultimate test of saddle comfort. If I can get through an hour on a trainer without pain, then that is a good saddle. The Flite gel failed this test miserably, but I am currently using an Avocet O2 Air40 Racing saddle to pretty good effect (though could still use some improvement). On the road, I find the Avocet to be an excellent saddle because I tend to move around more than when I am on the trainer.

I think I might pick up one of the E3's from Performance and put it to the test. : ) . I'll post results here in a couple of weeks...

Actually I use the E3 only on a trainer (dedicated a bike to it), and so far so good. My trainer sessions are only under 2 hrs but I get the feeling it would continue being fine for longer.
 

Rocket^

New Member
Jul 30, 2005
85
0
0
I have used six different saddles since I began riding. The E3 causes me the least amount of numbness out of any I have tried. When I do experience numbness, it is so little, the problem can be rectified with 20 seconds out of the saddle. The majority of my training since I have owned this saddle has been indoors on the trainer (6 days per week). Regardless of the numbers validity, this is the best saddle I have had so far. I would recommend it to anyone who is experiencing any problems with going numb.


Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with the maker of E3. This review is my opinion and is based on cosumer experience, not scientific evaluation. Mileage may vary. :D
 

wnowak06

New Member
Jun 27, 2005
59
0
0
Have they done any studies with pro riders? Thousands of pros spend many, many hours in the saddle, riding in the drops on the nose of the seat. It seems to me if this were as big of a problem as some of you say it is, pro cyclists would be in more trouble, no?

Also, for those of you who experience numbness, do you have a good pair of cycling shorts with padding to protect that area? They help.
 

RapDaddyo

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2005
5,088
82
48
79
wnowak06 said:
Also, for those of you who experience numbness, do you have a good pair of cycling shorts with padding to protect that area? They help.
Actually, I think more padding and gel or cushioned saddles could worsen the problem. The issue is restriction of blood flow and I'm not sure that is alleviated with padding. For example, my saddle has almost no padding and I think that is actually one of the reasons I don't experience numbness.
 

Similar threads