Lawyer lips

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear
to be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done
it on this type of fork without

mishaps.

Quoted message said:

Grind away. But if you have a disc brake on the front, take care. As someone (his name slips my
mind..) has pointed out, the wheel can be ejected by the forces involved in stopping the rotation of
the wheel, which could cause a crash. It may be a small chance, but it does exist.

Cheers,

Scott..

Zog The Undeniable said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear
to be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done
it on this type of fork without mishaps.

Thousands of people have filed them down without problems. The only caveat *MAY* be if you have disc
brakes, as there's an argument that front wheels are prone to ejection issues w/discs.

Bill "a few extra twirls of the QR lever don't bother me" S.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear to
be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done it on
this type of fork without mishaps.

Assuming you can learn to use a QR properly, yes they can be safely filed down. I've done this on
bikes in the past. If you have a front disk brake, you may want to leave them on.
-----------
Alex

I've a friend who filed them down,

but...

one day he woke up to a strange barking noise in his garage.

he smelt fish and went in...

there were two large marine mammals on each fork blade.....

his lips were sealed....

Quoted message said:

Grind away. But if you have a disc brake on the front, take care. As someone (his name slips my
mind..) has pointed out, the wheel can be

ejected

Quoted message said:

by the forces involved in stopping the rotation of the wheel, which could cause a crash. It may be
a small chance, but it does exist.

I think the key words here are: "It may be a small chance, but it does exist."

I do NOT want to start THAT debate again.

I've ground off all the tabs I can get to. I've used a combo of a bench grinder and Dremel tool to
get rid of mine. Take it slow and easy and it'll be fine.

Mike

Quoted message said:

Cheers,

Scott..

Ah yes, lawyer [censored] (as they call them). I have ground all my road forks and my friends forks with a
high-speed 400 grit flexi-sanding disc on my drill press. It grinds it down so smooth you never knew
the [censored] existed. Grinding them makes for quicker training breakdowns. I've never had a problem.

Go for it!

~ AB ~

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear
to be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done
it on this type of fork without

mishaps.

Quoted message said:

-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- newsfeeds.comnewsfeeds.comOpen ↗ - The #1
Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

S o r n i said:

Zog The Undeniable said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear
to be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done
it on this type of fork without mishaps.

Thousands of people have filed them down without problems. The only caveat *MAY* be if you have
disc brakes, as there's an argument that front wheels are prone to ejection issues w/discs.

Bill "a few extra twirls of the QR lever don't bother me" S.

Disk brakes spitting out your front wheel is an argument for ditching the QR altogether and getting
a solid axle with some nice big M9x1 tracknuts on the ends, or better yet a 20mm through axle fork.
With or without lips, the disk brake is loading a QR in a way it wasn't designed to resist. If the
only thing holding your wheel in place is the lawyer lip, you're already potentially about to crash.

Any news on solutions from manufacturers? I saw one show bike with the front disk caliper in front
of the fork. A bolt through front hub at an XC compatible weight would be another way to go, or
forward facing dropouts. All need new designs of fork, but the forward facing dropout is compatible
with current hubs and brakes.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary

AB said:

Ah yes, lawyer [censored] (as they call them). I have ground all my road forks and my friends forks with
a high-speed 400 grit flexi-sanding disc on my drill press. It grinds it down so smooth you never
knew the [censored] existed. Grinding them makes for quicker training breakdowns. I've never had a
problem.

Thanks for the replies. No, I won't be using discs - this is a 1993 frame! It will have V-brakes to
replace the dubious Force 40 cantilever setup it came with - amazingly I sold these on eBay for
almost as much as a full V-brake set, so there are some nostalgia freaks out there.

"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:RTXMb.5632$XD5.3908@fed1read06...

Quoted message said:

I think the key words here are: "It may be a small chance, but it does exist."

I do NOT want to start THAT debate again.

Heehee...yeah, I thought there might be some trouble! But, like I say, grind away. There's more
that'll kill ya than no lawyer tabs.

Cheers,

Scott..

"S. Anderson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Grind away. But if you have a disc brake on the front, take care. As someone (his name slips my
mind..) has pointed out, the wheel can be

ejected

Quoted message said:

by the forces involved in stopping the rotation of the wheel, which could cause a crash. It may be
a small chance, but it does exist.

Mr. James Annan is the person who pointed out the wheel ejection problem. Sorry, I honestly couldn't
recall at the time of the first post.

Cheers,

Scott..

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 18:19:35 +0000, Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My Cannondale Pepperoni fork has two round "bumps" on each dropout to defeat the QR in case J.
Random Biker forgets to tighten it. As I am fed up of adjusting the QR every time I remove the
wheel, and the forks are going for a respray anyway, can these be safely filed down? They appear to
be either bonded or pressed into the main dropout - I'd be interested if anyone else has done it on
this type of fork without mishaps.

My memory might be wrong here, but I think some Cannondale aluminum forks of that era had tiny allen
bolts for lawyer tabs.

The ones I'm thinking of were painted over along with the rest of the fork, so may look like bumps,
but it would be pretty easy to remove them neatly if you found you could simply unscrew them.

Kinky Cowboy said:

Disk brakes spitting out your front wheel is an argument for ditching the QR altogether and
getting a solid axle with some nice big M9x1 tracknuts on the ends, or better yet a 20mm through
axle fork. With or without lips, the disk brake is loading a QR in a way it wasn't designed to
resist. If the only thing holding your wheel in place is the lawyer lip, you're already
potentially about to crash.

Any news on solutions from manufacturers? I saw one show bike with the front disk caliper in front
of the fork. A bolt through front hub at an XC compatible weight would be another way to go, or
forward facing dropouts. All need new designs of fork, but the forward facing dropout is
compatible with current hubs and brakes.

Another solution is to get rid of the fork altogether and use a monoblade strut instead. The axle
can be securely bolted (or otherwise attached) to the strut, since the tire may be removed with the
wheel still mounted.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities

Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee said:

I've a friend who filed them down,

but...

one day he woke up to a strange barking noise in his garage.

he smelt fish and went in...

there were two large marine mammals on each fork blade.....

his lips were sealed....

OK, I really liked that! (But judging from the groans, it was too sophisticated for my wife.) ;-)

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

Disk brakes spitting out your front wheel is an argument for ditching the QR altogether and
getting a solid axle with some nice big M9x1 tracknuts on the ends, or better yet a 20mm through
axle fork. With or without lips, the disk brake is loading a QR in a way it wasn't designed to
resist. If the only thing holding your wheel in place is the lawyer lip, you're already
potentially about to crash.

Any news on solutions from manufacturers? I saw one show bike with the front disk caliper in
front of the fork. A bolt through front hub at an XC compatible weight would be another way to
go, or forward facing dropouts. All need new designs of fork, but the forward facing dropout is
compatible with current hubs and brakes.

Since Marzocchi already has the QR20 "quick-release" through-axle design available, and there are
aftermarket 20mm hubs to fit it, it would seem that such a solution will easily become dominant as
soon as the bike makers become convinced of the need to solve this problem.

Quoted message said:

Another solution is to get rid of the fork altogether and use a monoblade strut instead. The axle
can be securely bolted (or otherwise attached) to the strut, since the tire may be removed with
the wheel still mounted.

A "solution" which--I'm sure you know--Cannondale will happily sell you as a feature of its
Lefty forks.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

frkrygow said:

Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee said:

I've a friend who filed them down,

but...

one day he woke up to a strange barking noise in his garage.

he smelt fish and went in...

there were two large marine mammals on each fork blade.....

his lips were sealed....

OK, I really liked that! (But judging from the groans, it was too sophisticated for my wife.) ;-)

I still don't get it.

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:34:11 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Kinky Cowboy said:

Disk brakes spitting out your front wheel is an argument for ditching the QR altogether and
getting a solid axle with some nice big M9x1 tracknuts on the ends, or better yet a 20mm
through axle fork. With or without lips, the disk brake is loading a QR in a way it wasn't
designed to resist. If the only thing holding your wheel in place is the lawyer lip, you're
already potentially about to crash.

Any news on solutions from manufacturers? I saw one show bike with the front disk caliper in
front of the fork. A bolt through front hub at an XC compatible weight would be another way to
go, or forward facing dropouts. All need new designs of fork, but the forward facing dropout is
compatible with current hubs and brakes.

Since Marzocchi already has the QR20 "quick-release" through-axle design available, and there are
aftermarket 20mm hubs to fit it, it would seem that such a solution will easily become dominant as
soon as the bike makers become convinced of the need to solve this problem.

Quoted message said:

Another solution is to get rid of the fork altogether and use a monoblade strut instead. The axle
can be securely bolted (or otherwise attached) to the strut, since the tire may be removed with
the wheel still mounted.

A "solution" which--I'm sure you know--Cannondale will happily sell you as a feature of its
Lefty forks.

Some kind of bolt through arrangement seems like the best candidate for most markets, but I can't
see QR20 being the choice of either budget bikes or weight weenie XC racers. Too many parts for the
former and too heavy for the latter, and neither market is obviously crying out for the stiffness
benefit of a clamped 20mm axle.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary

Jay Hill said:

frkrygow said:

Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee said:

I've a friend who filed them down,

but...

one day he woke up to a strange barking noise in his garage.

he smelt fish and went in...

there were two large marine mammals on each fork blade.....

his lips were sealed....

Quoted message said:

I still don't get it.

Spoiler below!!! 😉

scroll down

His lips (lawyer lips) were sealed (seal = large marine mammal, fishy smell, barking noise)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kinky Cowboy said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman

Quoted message said:

Kinky Cowboy wrote:

[solutions to wheel ejection issues with disc brakes and open fork dropouts]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since Marzocchi already has the QR20 "quick-release" through-axle design available, and there are
aftermarket 20mm hubs to fit it, it would seem that such a solution will easily become dominant
as soon as the bike makers become convinced of the need to solve this problem.

Quoted message said:

Another solution is to get rid of the fork altogether and use a monoblade strut instead. The
axle can be securely bolted (or otherwise attached) to the strut, since the tire may be removed
with the wheel still mounted.

A "solution" which--I'm sure you know--Cannondale will happily sell you as a feature of its
Lefty forks.

Some kind of bolt through arrangement seems like the best candidate for most markets, but I can't
see QR20 being the choice of either budget bikes or weight weenie XC racers. Too many parts for
the former and too heavy for the latter, and neither market is obviously crying out for the
stiffness benefit of a clamped 20mm axle.

Budget bikes can use front-opening dropouts. XC weight weenies use V-brakes, because they're still
lighter than discs.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] sfu.ca~rcousineOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 18:47:22 -0800, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Kinky Cowboy

Quoted message said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Sherman <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> Kinky Cowboy wrote:

[solutions to wheel ejection issues with disc brakes and open fork dropouts]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Since Marzocchi already has the QR20 "quick-release" through-axle design available, and there
are aftermarket 20mm hubs to fit it, it would seem that such a solution will easily become
dominant as soon as the bike makers become convinced of the need to solve this problem.

> Another solution is to get rid of the fork altogether and use a monoblade strut instead. The
> axle can be securely bolted (or otherwise attached) to the strut, since the tire may be
> removed with the wheel still mounted.

A "solution" which--I'm sure you know--Cannondale will happily sell you as a feature of its
Lefty forks.

Some kind of bolt through arrangement seems like the best candidate for most markets, but I can't
see QR20 being the choice of either budget bikes or weight weenie XC racers. Too many parts for
the former and too heavy for the latter, and neither market is obviously crying out for the
stiffness benefit of a clamped 20mm axle.

Budget bikes can use front-opening dropouts. XC weight weenies use V-brakes, because they're still
lighter than discs.

If racers were obsessed by weight over function, they wouldn't have suspension either. Discs are
worth the small weight penalty, so there need to be XC race style forks with disc-safe dropouts.
Maybe 2005 SIDs will have forward facing dropouts, maybe 2005 XTR will have a 9mm through bolt (not
clamped axle) fixing for the front hub, like a slimmed down version of the Saint rear hub. This
would allow "dropouts" with no exit slot, just a circular hole for the bolt to pass through, while
remaining compatible with current forks.

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts Your milage may vary