LC diversity



C

Cubit

Guest
A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
the other didn't like it.

She offered that she used high fiber bread, I replied that I don't eat any
breads. She told me about her granola and bran she eats. I replied that
all that probably had a lot of fiber, but that I don't eat any kind of
cereal. I commented that I didn't mind cheese and salami for breakfast,
then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg whites
by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.) She explained that
she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have much
(if any) lactose. She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
dairy and hates anything creamy. I didn't tell her that I buy about a
gallon of heavy cream a month. She says that she has only gained 3 pounds
in the last year, but it looks by eye like she has gained about 15 pounds.
The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
being allies in dieting had evaporated. I think she is trying to do a low
fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want trouble.

Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.

She commented that her daughter had a knee problem that prevents her from
taking walks, and explained that is the reason her daughter has gained a lot
of weight. I haven't seen her daughter in about 10 years. About 20 years
ago her daughter and I went on one polite date. I refrained from telling my
parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.

My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell her
to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
already.
 
R

Roger Zoul

Guest
Interesting. I agree much more with you than her, but we still have
disagreements. :)

BTW, am I the only one here who regularly eats sour cream and protein powder
(with liquid splenda)? I don't use a lot of heavy cream, though.


"Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

>
> My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell
> her
> to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
> me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
> already.


What happenned to uncle Cubit, mommy?
 
P

Pat

Guest
She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
: that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg
whites
: by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
: that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.)

I think the word "nasty" in relation to food doesn't any idea that the rest
of us can understand. What, exactly is "nasty"? Is it too salty? too mushy?
too sweet? too stringy?


She explained that
: she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have
much
: (if any) lactose.

It doesn't matter if heavy cream does not have "much" lactose. If a person
is lactose intolerant, that doesn't mean he/she merely dislikes lactose---it
means his/her body cannot process it without pain. My son became lactose
intolerant at age 13 and he was in a lot of pain until we and the doctor
figured it out. "Intolerance" in this regard is not the same as a difference
in opinion.


I refrained from telling my
: parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.

And, have you read the latest medical research saying that lack of exercise
is bad for all parts of your body--your lungs, your muscles, your heart,
etc? Doing no exercise is not something to brag about. It sounds to me as if
you are pretty inflexible (no pun intended).

Pat in TX
 
T

Tom G

Guest
"Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
> advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
> While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
> that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
> the other didn't like it.
>
> She offered that she used high fiber bread, I replied that I don't eat any
> breads. She told me about her granola and bran she eats. I replied that
> all that probably had a lot of fiber, but that I don't eat any kind of
> cereal. I commented that I didn't mind cheese and salami for breakfast,
> then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
> that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg

whites
> by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
> that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.) She explained

that
> she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have

much
> (if any) lactose. She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
> dairy and hates anything creamy. I didn't tell her that I buy about a
> gallon of heavy cream a month. She says that she has only gained 3 pounds
> in the last year, but it looks by eye like she has gained about 15 pounds.
> The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
> being allies in dieting had evaporated. I think she is trying to do a low
> fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
> should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want

trouble.

Yes, it is amazing how 2 people can say they are doing low carb, and eat
so differently. Some of the people that I knew that were eating low carb did
not seem to be doing it quite right. They generally try to do low fat at the
same time as low carb. It is too hard for many people to believe that more
calories should come from fat, after being told all their lives that fat is
bad. As you say, many appear to be trying to eat "healthy carbs" instead of
actually lowering the carb amounts. Still, they are probably eating
healthier than before by removing the sugar and white bread.

>
> Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.
>
> She commented that her daughter had a knee problem that prevents her from
> taking walks, and explained that is the reason her daughter has gained a

lot
> of weight. I haven't seen her daughter in about 10 years. About 20 years
> ago her daughter and I went on one polite date. I refrained from telling

my
> parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.
>
> My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell

her
> to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
> me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
> already.


Maybe she's watched some T.V. shows about Nazis. :eek:) ( I know you've
shaved it off )

It's funny watching a kid come to their own conclusions based on what they
think they know. Her re-action IMO is similar to the way adults view someone
that has changed a great deal. It upsets their universe, and they need time
to adjust their perception of how you are suppose to fit in.

>
>
 
D

Doug Freyburger

Guest
Cubit wrote:
>
> A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
> advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
> While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
> that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
> the other didn't like it.


I think you're confused about the word "like" means based on the
rest of your post.

> then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
> that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg whites
> by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
> that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.)


If she's allergic to egg yolks "like" doesn't come into it in the
least,
and if she's allergic to egg yolks then egg whites are a risky item
that
she is likely to sensibly avoid at all times. Sure, yolk is the best
and
most nutritious part, but that's irrelevant when there's an allergy
involved.

> She explained that
> she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have much
> (if any) lactose.


If she's lactose intolerant then any diary product is out, and issues
of "like" become irrelevant.

Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
you're
lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
thoughts. For years I wondered if I might be mildly lactose
intolerant yet never noticed that wheat products were always involved.
It's far too easy to miss something that's so in the background it is
never not present. If she's done an eliminate-and-challenge test then
she knows for certain otherwise they remain guesses. Doesn't
matter, it's still not a matter of "like" even if she ends up being
incorrect in her assessments once a controlled test is done.

> She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
> dairy and hates anything creamy.


Which may or may not have anything to do with lactose. She
may mean "creamy" to mean anything dairy; she may mean
"creamy" to mean anyhting high fat.

> The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
> being allies in dieting had evaporated.


Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. ;^) Your club membership
is hereby renewed.

> I think she is trying to do a low
> fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
> should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want trouble.


Or ... Maybe she read the book but discarded the bits she did not
believe and/or did not agree with. Tons of folks do that.

> Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.


;^)
 
H

Hannah Gruen

Guest
I agree about the "like", but I know what the OP means. A relative I lunch
with from time to time is "watching her weight" by eschewing bread and
starchy foods, apparently influenced by media low carb diet coverage.
However, she is rather ignorant about nutrition in general and some of the
things she eats, and urges on me or serves me are very inconsistent with
reduced carb eating.

She likes sugary foods and recognizes that they aren't good on a regular
basis, but sees fruit as wholesome... which it is, compared to Twinkies. I
just can't seem to make her understand that fruit is also high in simple
sugars. I've just given up.

Re allergies, Doug, I think your comment is very important. It can be very
difficult for an individual to tell for sure specifically *what* they are
allergic to, particularly with foods that are customarily an ingredient or
served with other foods. Most of us don't have the knowledge or patience to
do the proper "testing" needed to determine allergies. I suspect wheat or
gluten allergy/sensitivity in myself, and possible milk allergy. It's a good
reminder to me, though, that since I've never really eliminated these foods
for any length of time, I could be completely mistaken. (I did have a
reaction to graham crackers during elimination testing as a child, but not
to other wheat products, so who knows?)

HG

"Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> I think you're confused about the word "like" means based on the
> rest of your post.


++++++++

> Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
> you're
> lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
> thoughts.
 
C

Cubit

Guest
"Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
[snip]
> Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
> you're
> lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
> thoughts.

[snip]

For years I had problem that my home made fried or scrambled eggs led to
diarrhea within a few hours. Yet, at restaurants I never had a reaction to
eggs. One day I tried fixing scrambled eggs and then took the prepared
scrambled eggs in a bowl and nuked them in the microwave for about a minute.
I had no adverse reaction to the eggs. It worked every time. Next I tried
setting the gas stove to a higher setting while preparing eggs and again the
adverse reaction was gone. I no longer need to nuke them.

There is only one peculiar twist to the story. I have experimented with
adding raw egg yolks to protein shakes. I had no adverse reaction. So,
this leaves several odd possibilities. I might be reacting to undercooked
eggwhites, or maybe there is something produced at low temperature cooking
that is destroyed by high temperature cooking, or it may be something I just
haven't thought of.

When I was having trouble with the eggs it didn't make any difference
whether I cooked them in olive oil, coconut oil, butter, or heavy cream.
Sometimes I would add cheese to scrambled eggs, but it made no difference
either way.

Hard boiled or hard steamed eggs are always fine.
 
D

Doug Freyburger

Guest
Hannah Gruen wrote:
>
> I agree about the "like", but I know what the OP means. A relative I lunch
> with from time to time is "watching her weight" by eschewing bread and
> starchy foods, apparently influenced by media low carb diet coverage.
> However, she is rather ignorant about nutrition in general and some of the
> things she eats, and urges on me or serves me are very inconsistent with
> reduced carb eating.
>
> She likes sugary foods and recognizes that they aren't good on a regular
> basis, but sees fruit as wholesome... which it is, compared to Twinkies. I
> just can't seem to make her understand that fruit is also high in simple
> sugars. I've just given up.


There are levels of ignorance that are beyond what I can understand.
I simply don't get the "what's a carb" level so I avoid responding to
such questions. How can a person not know what goes into such
and such a type of food? I learned such things watching adults cook
when I was a kid so it's just beyond me that some never learned it.
It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.

> Re allergies, Doug, I think your comment is very important. It can be very
> difficult for an individual to tell for sure specifically *what* they are
> allergic to, particularly with foods that are customarily an ingredient or
> served with other foods. Most of us don't have the knowledge or patience to
> do the proper "testing" needed to determine allergies.


This is the beauty of following the directions for what Atkins actually
is and yet another reason why I am such a huge fan of what Atkins
actually is. The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
you follow the directions. Induction is a list off allowed foods that
aren't tested for (It's a loophole that means many never test for
intolerances to eggs, dairy, veggies and such. Not that I've ever
encountered anyone who has problems with brocolli but the decade
isn't over yet.) Then each few days of OWL you add back in one
specific type of food and observe the response.

Some points about Atkins as an intolerance testing process. It
can be very hard to tell when a symptom goes away, but it's much
easier to notice when it comes back. People had to tell me about
the list of symptoms that went away by the time I finished Induction;
I just knew I felt better. Yet as I added item after item back some
triggered symptoms. Bingo, I had suspects for my problem foods.
Where I once suspected mild lactose intolerance I finally learned
that most of my symptoms had always been caused by wheat
but the trigger that made me suspect lactose is the fact that I
can't digest cheeses made from sheeps milk.

Once I learned the ideas behind the eliminate-and-challange
aspect of the Atkins systems, I looked back at the list of Induction
foods and wondered. Do I have problems with eggs, dairy, any
of the veggies on the list? So one month in my first year I went
without eggs for 2 weeks then added them back. No change at
the point I added them back therefore eggs weren't a problem for
me. I tried 2 weeks without dairy then added back cow-only
dairy without issue, then sheep-only dairy and got indigestion,
then goat-only dairy and discovered that while I love goat cheese
and don't have any health issues with it I get tired of the stuff
very fast. I still have never tried 2 weeks without any cabbage
family veggies like brocolli.

> I suspect wheat or
> gluten allergy/sensitivity in myself, and possible milk allergy. It's a good
> reminder to me, though, that since I've never really eliminated these foods
> for any length of time, I could be completely mistaken. (I did have a
> reaction to graham crackers during elimination testing as a child, but not
> to other wheat products, so who knows?)


Try an elimination some time. I've discovered that it gets quite easy
to avoid wheat with a bit of practice. Two weeks wheat-free then add
some back in, rather like Induction. Then some other month go 2
weeks without dairy then add some back in. There's no shortage of
non-dairy foods out there. Consider that lobster isn't all that bad
without
melted butter ;^)
 
H

Hannah Gruen

Guest
"Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> There are levels of ignorance that are beyond what I can understand.
> I simply don't get the "what's a carb" level so I avoid responding to
> such questions. How can a person not know what goes into such
> and such a type of food? I learned such things watching adults cook
> when I was a kid so it's just beyond me that some never learned it.
> It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.


I have a hard time with this, too. I think you have an engineering
background - mine is in science. I imagine "how stuff works" has always been
an inportant factor for us, but not necessarily for others. I do find myself
amazed when people are so completely clueless about what is in their food.

My little grandson has episodes of obvious hyperactivity, which his parents
are convinced are caused by sugar. Yet they have continued to allow him to
drink a lot of fruit juices and even "health food" sodas. Like if it is in
liquid form, or the sucrose is mixed with fructose, it somehow doesn't
count? LOL. Oh well, he's only 3 and will likely outgrow it.

> The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
> you follow the directions.


Sort of, it does eliminate a lot of potential offenders. But it does still
allow many common allergens, like dairy, eggs, shellfish. I don't think any
vegetables are common allergens, though. A true elimination diet is probably
the way to go if you are really concerned. I was always told that lamb is
the least allergenic meat, so lamb plus a couple vegetables would be a good
place to start, adding in new foods at intervals.

One concern I have with elimination diets is the relatively short interval
between adding new foods, usually around 3 days. I know I've read that it
can take many days, weeks even, to rid the body of certain foods, for those
who suffer from serious sensitivites, such as gluten intolerance. That
should probably be kept in mind when you stop a suspect food - it could
potentially take far longer than 3 days for its effects to go away.

> Some points about Atkins as an intolerance testing process. It
> can be very hard to tell when a symptom goes away, but it's much
> easier to notice when it comes back.


Yes, once you get rid of the symptom - however long that takes - if you are
careful about not adding more than one new thing at a time, it should be
relatively easy to spot offenders.

> Try an elimination some time.


I keep saying I'm going to do this, I really should.

> I've discovered that it gets quite easy
> to avoid wheat with a bit of practice. Two weeks wheat-free then add
> some back in, rather like Induction. Then some other month go 2
> weeks without dairy then add some back in. There's no shortage of
> non-dairy foods out there. Consider that lobster isn't all that bad
> without
> melted butter ;^)


I don't have much trouble avoiding wheat, so long as I stay lc. I'd guess
dairy would really be a struggle for me, as I am really fond of cheese. I
can (and do) use soy milk in coffee. The soy creamer is a decent sub for
cream. But soy cheeses of any kind are unappetizing, to me anyway. But I
might give it a go one of these days, just to see.

HG
 
D

Doug Freyburger

Guest
Hannah Gruen wrote:
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.

>
> I have a hard time with this, too. I think you have an engineering
> background - mine is in science.


Science and engineering - Tune the radio to the same station and
then adjust the volume knob. Quiet is engineering, loud is science.

> My little grandson has episodes of obvious hyperactivity, which his parents
> are convinced are caused by sugar. Yet they have continued to allow him to
> drink a lot of fruit juices and even "health food" sodas. Like if it is in
> liquid form, or the sucrose is mixed with fructose, it somehow doesn't
> count? LOL. Oh well, he's only 3 and will likely outgrow it.


Beyond my kenn.

> > The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
> > you follow the directions.

>
> Sort of, it does eliminate a lot of potential offenders. But it does still
> allow many common allergens, like dairy, eggs, shellfish.


Induction is a good elimination system with a few loopholes. Those
are the loopholes.

> I don't think any
> vegetables are common allergens, though. A true elimination diet is probably
> the way to go if you are really concerned. I was always told that lamb is
> the least allergenic meat, so lamb plus a couple vegetables would be a good
> place to start, adding in new foods at intervals.


The Texas elimination system starts with beef, brocolli and water as
the lowest chance foods. Now that's an extreme system.

> One concern I have with elimination diets is the relatively short interval
> between adding new foods, usually around 3 days. I know I've read that it
> can take many days, weeks even, to rid the body of certain foods, for those
> who suffer from serious sensitivites, such as gluten intolerance. That
> should probably be kept in mind when you stop a suspect food - it could
> potentially take far longer than 3 days for its effects to go away.


Yet another reason why Induction is 14 days. My snoring and
such turned off more than a week after I stopped eating wheat.
This is why a good elimination system will remove foods for at
least a week, and then add them back one at a time, just like
the rules for OWL. It's interesting that since symptoms are slow
to disappear but fast to disappear means removing for two weeks
but re-adding for 3-4 days works fine. So early OWL allows two
food types per week to be tested.

> I'd guess
> dairy would really be a struggle for me, as I am really fond of cheese. I
> can (and do) use soy milk in coffee. The soy creamer is a decent sub for
> cream. But soy cheeses of any kind are unappetizing, to me anyway. But I
> might give it a go one of these days, just to see.


I love cheese, but for the 2 weeks I tried going dairy-free I simply
eliminated dairy without substitutes. There is no shortage of types
or quantities of meat, veggies and such. I figured if I tested out I'd
deal with it then.

When I discovered that I am wheat intolerant I mostly reacted with
attitude rather than substitutes. "Grass is for cows" and such
rather than searching for wheat-free items. Maybe if I'd ended up
dairy intolerant I would have used "Milk is for un-weaned babies"
as the base of my attitude. In the case of wheat, the fact that
most low-carb substitute items use wheat bran instead of wheat
flour means most wheat-free substitutes that I can have are high
carb anyways. All-rye German/Dutch/Danish pumpernickel,
quinoa/rice/corn pasta, corn tortillas. One pizza place has a soy
based wheat-free crust, what most would think of as a substitute.
In the end I paid attention and discovered the infinite variety
available among wheat-free foods; an apporach that should work
for going dairy-free.
 
Roger Zoul wrote:

> BTW, am I the only one here who regularly eats sour cream and protein powder
> (with liquid splenda)? I don't use a lot of heavy cream, though.


This mixture is eaten as what? In place of Heavy Cream? Or as a
breakfast item?

Curious.

Hollywood