LC diversity

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Cubit, Nov 26, 2005.

  1. Cubit

    Cubit Guest

    A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
    advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
    While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
    that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
    the other didn't like it.

    She offered that she used high fiber bread, I replied that I don't eat any
    breads. She told me about her granola and bran she eats. I replied that
    all that probably had a lot of fiber, but that I don't eat any kind of
    cereal. I commented that I didn't mind cheese and salami for breakfast,
    then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
    that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg whites
    by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
    that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.) She explained that
    she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have much
    (if any) lactose. She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
    dairy and hates anything creamy. I didn't tell her that I buy about a
    gallon of heavy cream a month. She says that she has only gained 3 pounds
    in the last year, but it looks by eye like she has gained about 15 pounds.
    The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
    being allies in dieting had evaporated. I think she is trying to do a low
    fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
    should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want trouble.

    Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.

    She commented that her daughter had a knee problem that prevents her from
    taking walks, and explained that is the reason her daughter has gained a lot
    of weight. I haven't seen her daughter in about 10 years. About 20 years
    ago her daughter and I went on one polite date. I refrained from telling my
    parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.

    My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell her
    to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
    me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
    already.
     
    Tags:


  2. Roger Zoul

    Roger Zoul Guest

    Interesting. I agree much more with you than her, but we still have
    disagreements. :)

    BTW, am I the only one here who regularly eats sour cream and protein powder
    (with liquid splenda)? I don't use a lot of heavy cream, though.


    "Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    >
    > My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell
    > her
    > to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
    > me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
    > already.


    What happenned to uncle Cubit, mommy?
     
  3. Pat

    Pat Guest

    She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
    : that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg
    whites
    : by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
    : that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.)

    I think the word "nasty" in relation to food doesn't any idea that the rest
    of us can understand. What, exactly is "nasty"? Is it too salty? too mushy?
    too sweet? too stringy?


    She explained that
    : she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have
    much
    : (if any) lactose.

    It doesn't matter if heavy cream does not have "much" lactose. If a person
    is lactose intolerant, that doesn't mean he/she merely dislikes lactose---it
    means his/her body cannot process it without pain. My son became lactose
    intolerant at age 13 and he was in a lot of pain until we and the doctor
    figured it out. "Intolerance" in this regard is not the same as a difference
    in opinion.


    I refrained from telling my
    : parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.

    And, have you read the latest medical research saying that lack of exercise
    is bad for all parts of your body--your lungs, your muscles, your heart,
    etc? Doing no exercise is not something to brag about. It sounds to me as if
    you are pretty inflexible (no pun intended).

    Pat in TX
     
  4. Tom G

    Tom G Guest

    "Cubit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
    > advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
    > While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
    > that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
    > the other didn't like it.
    >
    > She offered that she used high fiber bread, I replied that I don't eat any
    > breads. She told me about her granola and bran she eats. I replied that
    > all that probably had a lot of fiber, but that I don't eat any kind of
    > cereal. I commented that I didn't mind cheese and salami for breakfast,
    > then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
    > that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg

    whites
    > by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
    > that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.) She explained

    that
    > she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have

    much
    > (if any) lactose. She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
    > dairy and hates anything creamy. I didn't tell her that I buy about a
    > gallon of heavy cream a month. She says that she has only gained 3 pounds
    > in the last year, but it looks by eye like she has gained about 15 pounds.
    > The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
    > being allies in dieting had evaporated. I think she is trying to do a low
    > fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
    > should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want

    trouble.

    Yes, it is amazing how 2 people can say they are doing low carb, and eat
    so differently. Some of the people that I knew that were eating low carb did
    not seem to be doing it quite right. They generally try to do low fat at the
    same time as low carb. It is too hard for many people to believe that more
    calories should come from fat, after being told all their lives that fat is
    bad. As you say, many appear to be trying to eat "healthy carbs" instead of
    actually lowering the carb amounts. Still, they are probably eating
    healthier than before by removing the sugar and white bread.

    >
    > Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.
    >
    > She commented that her daughter had a knee problem that prevents her from
    > taking walks, and explained that is the reason her daughter has gained a

    lot
    > of weight. I haven't seen her daughter in about 10 years. About 20 years
    > ago her daughter and I went on one polite date. I refrained from telling

    my
    > parents' friend that I do no exercise, as such.
    >
    > My 2.25 year old niece was there. She gets very upset when people tell

    her
    > to say hi to me. Given my change in appearance, she doesn't believe I am
    > me, and thus she gets upset. She is very bright and using sentences
    > already.


    Maybe she's watched some T.V. shows about Nazis. :eek:) ( I know you've
    shaved it off )

    It's funny watching a kid come to their own conclusions based on what they
    think they know. Her re-action IMO is similar to the way adults view someone
    that has changed a great deal. It upsets their universe, and they need time
    to adjust their perception of how you are suppose to fit in.

    >
    >
     
  5. Cubit wrote:
    >
    > A friend of my parents, who is one of the few people I know in person that
    > advocates Atkins, discussed some of her specifics with me on Thanksgiving.
    > While I didn't talk about my unusual high fat approach, it was surprising
    > that we eat very differently. Every time one of us volunteered something,
    > the other didn't like it.


    I think you're confused about the word "like" means based on the
    rest of your post.

    > then added that eggs are good. She said she is allergic to egg yolks, but
    > that she sometimes cooks egg whites. I replied that I had tried egg whites
    > by themselves and thought they tasted nasty. (I was polite and didn't say
    > that the yolk was the best and most nutritious part.)


    If she's allergic to egg yolks "like" doesn't come into it in the
    least,
    and if she's allergic to egg yolks then egg whites are a risky item
    that
    she is likely to sensibly avoid at all times. Sure, yolk is the best
    and
    most nutritious part, but that's irrelevant when there's an allergy
    involved.

    > She explained that
    > she is lactose intolerant. I suggested that heavy cream does not have much
    > (if any) lactose.


    If she's lactose intolerant then any diary product is out, and issues
    of "like" become irrelevant.

    Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
    you're
    lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
    thoughts. For years I wondered if I might be mildly lactose
    intolerant yet never noticed that wheat products were always involved.
    It's far too easy to miss something that's so in the background it is
    never not present. If she's done an eliminate-and-challenge test then
    she knows for certain otherwise they remain guesses. Doesn't
    matter, it's still not a matter of "like" even if she ends up being
    incorrect in her assessments once a controlled test is done.

    > She seemed horrified and said that she was raised on a
    > dairy and hates anything creamy.


    Which may or may not have anything to do with lactose. She
    may mean "creamy" to mean anything dairy; she may mean
    "creamy" to mean anyhting high fat.

    > The conversation stopped abruptly as we both realized our former sense of
    > being allies in dieting had evaporated.


    Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt. ;^) Your club membership
    is hereby renewed.

    > I think she is trying to do a low
    > fat, anti-sugar, and good carb vs. bad carb approach to LC. I suppose I
    > should have asked if she actually read the book, but I didn't want trouble.


    Or ... Maybe she read the book but discarded the bits she did not
    believe and/or did not agree with. Tons of folks do that.

    > Her husband was listening and grinning from ear to ear.


    ;^)
     
  6. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    I agree about the "like", but I know what the OP means. A relative I lunch
    with from time to time is "watching her weight" by eschewing bread and
    starchy foods, apparently influenced by media low carb diet coverage.
    However, she is rather ignorant about nutrition in general and some of the
    things she eats, and urges on me or serves me are very inconsistent with
    reduced carb eating.

    She likes sugary foods and recognizes that they aren't good on a regular
    basis, but sees fruit as wholesome... which it is, compared to Twinkies. I
    just can't seem to make her understand that fruit is also high in simple
    sugars. I've just given up.

    Re allergies, Doug, I think your comment is very important. It can be very
    difficult for an individual to tell for sure specifically *what* they are
    allergic to, particularly with foods that are customarily an ingredient or
    served with other foods. Most of us don't have the knowledge or patience to
    do the proper "testing" needed to determine allergies. I suspect wheat or
    gluten allergy/sensitivity in myself, and possible milk allergy. It's a good
    reminder to me, though, that since I've never really eliminated these foods
    for any length of time, I could be completely mistaken. (I did have a
    reaction to graham crackers during elimination testing as a child, but not
    to other wheat products, so who knows?)

    HG

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > I think you're confused about the word "like" means based on the
    > rest of your post.


    ++++++++

    > Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
    > you're
    > lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
    > thoughts.
     
  7. Cubit

    Cubit Guest

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    [snip]
    > Note well, *thinking* you're allergic to egg yolks and *thinking*
    > you're
    > lactose intolerant don't automatically mean you're *correct* in those
    > thoughts.

    [snip]

    For years I had problem that my home made fried or scrambled eggs led to
    diarrhea within a few hours. Yet, at restaurants I never had a reaction to
    eggs. One day I tried fixing scrambled eggs and then took the prepared
    scrambled eggs in a bowl and nuked them in the microwave for about a minute.
    I had no adverse reaction to the eggs. It worked every time. Next I tried
    setting the gas stove to a higher setting while preparing eggs and again the
    adverse reaction was gone. I no longer need to nuke them.

    There is only one peculiar twist to the story. I have experimented with
    adding raw egg yolks to protein shakes. I had no adverse reaction. So,
    this leaves several odd possibilities. I might be reacting to undercooked
    eggwhites, or maybe there is something produced at low temperature cooking
    that is destroyed by high temperature cooking, or it may be something I just
    haven't thought of.

    When I was having trouble with the eggs it didn't make any difference
    whether I cooked them in olive oil, coconut oil, butter, or heavy cream.
    Sometimes I would add cheese to scrambled eggs, but it made no difference
    either way.

    Hard boiled or hard steamed eggs are always fine.
     
  8. Hannah Gruen wrote:
    >
    > I agree about the "like", but I know what the OP means. A relative I lunch
    > with from time to time is "watching her weight" by eschewing bread and
    > starchy foods, apparently influenced by media low carb diet coverage.
    > However, she is rather ignorant about nutrition in general and some of the
    > things she eats, and urges on me or serves me are very inconsistent with
    > reduced carb eating.
    >
    > She likes sugary foods and recognizes that they aren't good on a regular
    > basis, but sees fruit as wholesome... which it is, compared to Twinkies. I
    > just can't seem to make her understand that fruit is also high in simple
    > sugars. I've just given up.


    There are levels of ignorance that are beyond what I can understand.
    I simply don't get the "what's a carb" level so I avoid responding to
    such questions. How can a person not know what goes into such
    and such a type of food? I learned such things watching adults cook
    when I was a kid so it's just beyond me that some never learned it.
    It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.

    > Re allergies, Doug, I think your comment is very important. It can be very
    > difficult for an individual to tell for sure specifically *what* they are
    > allergic to, particularly with foods that are customarily an ingredient or
    > served with other foods. Most of us don't have the knowledge or patience to
    > do the proper "testing" needed to determine allergies.


    This is the beauty of following the directions for what Atkins actually
    is and yet another reason why I am such a huge fan of what Atkins
    actually is. The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
    you follow the directions. Induction is a list off allowed foods that
    aren't tested for (It's a loophole that means many never test for
    intolerances to eggs, dairy, veggies and such. Not that I've ever
    encountered anyone who has problems with brocolli but the decade
    isn't over yet.) Then each few days of OWL you add back in one
    specific type of food and observe the response.

    Some points about Atkins as an intolerance testing process. It
    can be very hard to tell when a symptom goes away, but it's much
    easier to notice when it comes back. People had to tell me about
    the list of symptoms that went away by the time I finished Induction;
    I just knew I felt better. Yet as I added item after item back some
    triggered symptoms. Bingo, I had suspects for my problem foods.
    Where I once suspected mild lactose intolerance I finally learned
    that most of my symptoms had always been caused by wheat
    but the trigger that made me suspect lactose is the fact that I
    can't digest cheeses made from sheeps milk.

    Once I learned the ideas behind the eliminate-and-challange
    aspect of the Atkins systems, I looked back at the list of Induction
    foods and wondered. Do I have problems with eggs, dairy, any
    of the veggies on the list? So one month in my first year I went
    without eggs for 2 weeks then added them back. No change at
    the point I added them back therefore eggs weren't a problem for
    me. I tried 2 weeks without dairy then added back cow-only
    dairy without issue, then sheep-only dairy and got indigestion,
    then goat-only dairy and discovered that while I love goat cheese
    and don't have any health issues with it I get tired of the stuff
    very fast. I still have never tried 2 weeks without any cabbage
    family veggies like brocolli.

    > I suspect wheat or
    > gluten allergy/sensitivity in myself, and possible milk allergy. It's a good
    > reminder to me, though, that since I've never really eliminated these foods
    > for any length of time, I could be completely mistaken. (I did have a
    > reaction to graham crackers during elimination testing as a child, but not
    > to other wheat products, so who knows?)


    Try an elimination some time. I've discovered that it gets quite easy
    to avoid wheat with a bit of practice. Two weeks wheat-free then add
    some back in, rather like Induction. Then some other month go 2
    weeks without dairy then add some back in. There's no shortage of
    non-dairy foods out there. Consider that lobster isn't all that bad
    without
    melted butter ;^)
     
  9. Hannah Gruen

    Hannah Gruen Guest

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]

    > There are levels of ignorance that are beyond what I can understand.
    > I simply don't get the "what's a carb" level so I avoid responding to
    > such questions. How can a person not know what goes into such
    > and such a type of food? I learned such things watching adults cook
    > when I was a kid so it's just beyond me that some never learned it.
    > It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.


    I have a hard time with this, too. I think you have an engineering
    background - mine is in science. I imagine "how stuff works" has always been
    an inportant factor for us, but not necessarily for others. I do find myself
    amazed when people are so completely clueless about what is in their food.

    My little grandson has episodes of obvious hyperactivity, which his parents
    are convinced are caused by sugar. Yet they have continued to allow him to
    drink a lot of fruit juices and even "health food" sodas. Like if it is in
    liquid form, or the sucrose is mixed with fructose, it somehow doesn't
    count? LOL. Oh well, he's only 3 and will likely outgrow it.

    > The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
    > you follow the directions.


    Sort of, it does eliminate a lot of potential offenders. But it does still
    allow many common allergens, like dairy, eggs, shellfish. I don't think any
    vegetables are common allergens, though. A true elimination diet is probably
    the way to go if you are really concerned. I was always told that lamb is
    the least allergenic meat, so lamb plus a couple vegetables would be a good
    place to start, adding in new foods at intervals.

    One concern I have with elimination diets is the relatively short interval
    between adding new foods, usually around 3 days. I know I've read that it
    can take many days, weeks even, to rid the body of certain foods, for those
    who suffer from serious sensitivites, such as gluten intolerance. That
    should probably be kept in mind when you stop a suspect food - it could
    potentially take far longer than 3 days for its effects to go away.

    > Some points about Atkins as an intolerance testing process. It
    > can be very hard to tell when a symptom goes away, but it's much
    > easier to notice when it comes back.


    Yes, once you get rid of the symptom - however long that takes - if you are
    careful about not adding more than one new thing at a time, it should be
    relatively easy to spot offenders.

    > Try an elimination some time.


    I keep saying I'm going to do this, I really should.

    > I've discovered that it gets quite easy
    > to avoid wheat with a bit of practice. Two weeks wheat-free then add
    > some back in, rather like Induction. Then some other month go 2
    > weeks without dairy then add some back in. There's no shortage of
    > non-dairy foods out there. Consider that lobster isn't all that bad
    > without
    > melted butter ;^)


    I don't have much trouble avoiding wheat, so long as I stay lc. I'd guess
    dairy would really be a struggle for me, as I am really fond of cheese. I
    can (and do) use soy milk in coffee. The soy creamer is a decent sub for
    cream. But soy cheeses of any kind are unappetizing, to me anyway. But I
    might give it a go one of these days, just to see.

    HG
     
  10. Hannah Gruen wrote:
    > Doug Freyburger wrote:
    >
    > > It's one of my blind spots but at least it's a blind spot I know about.

    >
    > I have a hard time with this, too. I think you have an engineering
    > background - mine is in science.


    Science and engineering - Tune the radio to the same station and
    then adjust the volume knob. Quiet is engineering, loud is science.

    > My little grandson has episodes of obvious hyperactivity, which his parents
    > are convinced are caused by sugar. Yet they have continued to allow him to
    > drink a lot of fruit juices and even "health food" sodas. Like if it is in
    > liquid form, or the sucrose is mixed with fructose, it somehow doesn't
    > count? LOL. Oh well, he's only 3 and will likely outgrow it.


    Beyond my kenn.

    > > The Atkins process is exactly this type of testing when
    > > you follow the directions.

    >
    > Sort of, it does eliminate a lot of potential offenders. But it does still
    > allow many common allergens, like dairy, eggs, shellfish.


    Induction is a good elimination system with a few loopholes. Those
    are the loopholes.

    > I don't think any
    > vegetables are common allergens, though. A true elimination diet is probably
    > the way to go if you are really concerned. I was always told that lamb is
    > the least allergenic meat, so lamb plus a couple vegetables would be a good
    > place to start, adding in new foods at intervals.


    The Texas elimination system starts with beef, brocolli and water as
    the lowest chance foods. Now that's an extreme system.

    > One concern I have with elimination diets is the relatively short interval
    > between adding new foods, usually around 3 days. I know I've read that it
    > can take many days, weeks even, to rid the body of certain foods, for those
    > who suffer from serious sensitivites, such as gluten intolerance. That
    > should probably be kept in mind when you stop a suspect food - it could
    > potentially take far longer than 3 days for its effects to go away.


    Yet another reason why Induction is 14 days. My snoring and
    such turned off more than a week after I stopped eating wheat.
    This is why a good elimination system will remove foods for at
    least a week, and then add them back one at a time, just like
    the rules for OWL. It's interesting that since symptoms are slow
    to disappear but fast to disappear means removing for two weeks
    but re-adding for 3-4 days works fine. So early OWL allows two
    food types per week to be tested.

    > I'd guess
    > dairy would really be a struggle for me, as I am really fond of cheese. I
    > can (and do) use soy milk in coffee. The soy creamer is a decent sub for
    > cream. But soy cheeses of any kind are unappetizing, to me anyway. But I
    > might give it a go one of these days, just to see.


    I love cheese, but for the 2 weeks I tried going dairy-free I simply
    eliminated dairy without substitutes. There is no shortage of types
    or quantities of meat, veggies and such. I figured if I tested out I'd
    deal with it then.

    When I discovered that I am wheat intolerant I mostly reacted with
    attitude rather than substitutes. "Grass is for cows" and such
    rather than searching for wheat-free items. Maybe if I'd ended up
    dairy intolerant I would have used "Milk is for un-weaned babies"
    as the base of my attitude. In the case of wheat, the fact that
    most low-carb substitute items use wheat bran instead of wheat
    flour means most wheat-free substitutes that I can have are high
    carb anyways. All-rye German/Dutch/Danish pumpernickel,
    quinoa/rice/corn pasta, corn tortillas. One pizza place has a soy
    based wheat-free crust, what most would think of as a substitute.
    In the end I paid attention and discovered the infinite variety
    available among wheat-free foods; an apporach that should work
    for going dairy-free.
     
  11. Roger Zoul wrote:

    > BTW, am I the only one here who regularly eats sour cream and protein powder
    > (with liquid splenda)? I don't use a lot of heavy cream, though.


    This mixture is eaten as what? In place of Heavy Cream? Or as a
    breakfast item?

    Curious.

    Hollywood
     
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