LeMond's new product line

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Baby Arm
I had assumed that LeMond was the "steel" Trek, since Trek owns LeMond, but it seems that LeMond has completely revamped their product line, and are now carrying aluminum framed bikes, and their steel bikes are a combination of True Temper (instead of Reynolds) and carbon fiber. Has anyone else saw this and been curious? I had viewed LeMond as an american version of classic, steel, non-compact frame builders, but these new bikes make is seem like they're just caving in to marketing pressures. Ok, I'm biased because I love my Buenos Aires so much, but still...

Yeah, it's called follow the market.Lemond is just one of many.

newbie

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by BaCardi
newbie

?

Seems to me True Temper is a fine choice for an american bike, since it's US-made steel. Concerning the carbon stays, believe the mass market is going for the carbon comfort. Just like carbon forks became the standard, believe carbon rear stays will follow.

My current bike is all steel, so I know steel works fine, but believe the great majority of riders do prefer the buzz-free ride of carbon forks and stays. Great steel frames and forks are still being made by the custom builders for those who still want a traditional ride with all the road feel included.

Dan

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by dhk

My current bike is all steel, so I know steel works fine, but believe the great majority of riders do prefer the buzz-free ride of carbon forks and stays. Great steel frames and forks are still being made by the custom builders for those who still want a traditional ride with all the road feel included.

Dan

Given a quality steel frame and fork, the 'buzz free' CF business is more hype and marketing than reality. The uninformd buying public oinks it down and the manufactures are happy to keep throwing them more slop. Selling stuff is what it is all about.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Given a quality steel frame and fork, the 'buzz free' CF business is more hype and marketing than reality. The uninformd buying public oinks it down and the manufactures are happy to keep throwing them more slop. Selling stuff is what it is all about.

Understand you're a die-hard for steel. My "slop" (Al plus carbon rear and fork) should be ready to test ride soon so I can make some first-hand comparisons. I want to see for myself what the hype is about.

Dan

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by dhk
Understand you're a die-hard for steel.

Dan

Actually,I have everything.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Given a quality steel frame and fork, the 'buzz free' CF business is more hype and marketing than reality. The uninformd buying public oinks it down and the manufactures are happy to keep throwing them more slop. Selling stuff is what it is all about.

Just becuase one person can't feel the difference between an all-steel bike and one with CF components does not mean that everyone can't feel the difference.

If you don't like it, fine, but don't malign those who do based solely on your prejudices.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Baby Arm
I had assumed that LeMond was the "steel" Trek, since Trek owns LeMond, but it seems that LeMond has completely revamped their product line, and are now carrying aluminum framed bikes, and their steel bikes are a combination of True Temper (instead of Reynolds) and carbon fiber. Has anyone else saw this and been curious? I had viewed LeMond as an american version of classic, steel, non-compact frame builders, but these new bikes make is seem like they're just caving in to marketing pressures. Ok, I'm biased because I love my Buenos Aires so much, but still...

They kept one all steel frame, the Maillot Jaune. You can buy the frame and have them build it with eithe Shimano or Campy components. Probably a bit more expensive than it used to be, but so is everything.

Personally, I am looking forward to getting a 2004 Zurich, or, possibly an MJ if I can save enough.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Given a quality steel frame and fork, the 'buzz free' CF business is more hype and marketing than reality. The uninformd buying public oinks it down and the manufactures are happy to keep throwing them more slop. Selling stuff is what it is all about.

The dampening properties of carbon as a construction material may be up for debate, but I doubt your dogmatic take on the matter is any more accurate than the company line from Kestrel or FSA.

Hype may be hype, but whether you like it or not, the industry will continue to make adjustments to evolve itself in all areas: sales, profits, innovation, quality, and so on. Purists will grumble about the adequacy of existing systems whenever there's innovation. A little cynicism (and caution) is of course in order, but so is a little reality check.

Bikes will not be made the same way, and out of the same materials, 20 years from now. Period.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Babbar

If you don't like it, fine, but don't malign those who do based solely on your prejudices.

Not just me.Try a reality check.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
The dampening properties of carbon as a construction material may be up for debate, but I doubt your dogmatic take on the matter is any more accurate than the company line from Kestrel or FSA.

Hype may be hype, but whether you like it or not, the industry will continue to make adjustments to evolve itself in all areas: sales, profits, innovation, quality, and so on. Purists will grumble about the adequacy of existing systems whenever there's innovation. A little cynicism (and caution) is of course in order, but so is a little reality check.

Bikes will not be made the same way, and out of the same materials, 20 years from now. Period.

Believe it or not, but there are well regarded builders that do the carbon stuff because customers want it,but are straight up enough to flatly say there is little or no real benefit. Carl Strong of strongracing.com is one of them.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
Believe it or not, but there are well regarded builders that do the carbon stuff because customers want it,but are straight up enough to flatly say there is little or no real benefit. Carl Strong of strongracing.com is one of them.

Actually, I believe it 100%.

I'd just stress that the reality is that a number of interacting factors end up pushing industry standards in the long run. Customer responses to trends and hype count among them, but that's natural; it's industrial evolution.

There's enough variation among frame road-feels out there to satisfy different whims; those differences can be accounted for largely by design and construction, yes, but also, to some extent, by how those design differences interact with different choices in material. The "benefits" may highly subjective, but in the end, those customer perceptions drive the market and that's how it is in the coffee maker world as well.

A trusty, traditionalist steel frame may be a proven classic, but I don't see that as motivation to freak out about trendy innovations. Again, things won't stay the same over time, for whatever reasons. They change, and not necessarily for the worse, so lighten up.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
Actually, I believe it 100%.

A trusty, traditionalist steel frame may be a proven classic, but I don't see that as motivation to freak out about trendy innovations. Again, things won't stay the same over time, for whatever reasons. They change, and not necessarily for the worse, so lighten up.

You must get paid by the word. No one is freakin and I'm as light as it gets. But ,sometimes reality bites,doesn't it.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by boudreaux
You must get paid by the word. No one is freakin and I'm as light as it gets. But ,sometimes reality bites,doesn't it.

I think you and I just have to resolve to meet somewhere, because the creepy act you spin on these forums is just too hard to swallow. You're probably a decent guy in person... and maybe even "light."

You're definitely neither here.

Anyways, time for dinner. Ta ta.

To get back to the original issue at hand...

There probably is marketing pressure involved. Whether the steel/carbon mixed frames are that much better than all steel frames isn't the issue. The buying public appears to think so, and that dictates what the makers will build. After all, they do need to sell bikes in order to justify making them.

A pity, one of my riding buddies has a Buenos Aires, and it is a very sweet riding bike. Compared to my carbon Trek Y-Foil, it has a much smoother ride, although the 3 cross laced wheels (versus the extremely stiff Rolfs on my Foil) may have something to do with that.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Baby Arm
I had assumed that LeMond was the "steel" Trek, since Trek owns LeMond, but it seems that LeMond has completely revamped their product line, and are now carrying aluminum framed bikes, and their steel bikes are a combination of True Temper (instead of Reynolds) and carbon fiber. Has anyone else saw this and been curious? I had viewed LeMond as an american version of classic, steel, non-compact frame builders, but these new bikes make is seem like they're just caving in to marketing pressures.

The True Temper tubing they're using, OX Platinum, is great stuff. It's what Waterford uses for the R-33, the first sub-3 pound steel road frame.
I've never been a fan of CF stays as I've yet to find a bike on which I thought they did much for me (especially after riding some models before/after the addition of these stays). In general, I'm not a CF fan, having gotten more than a few cracked frames and other CF bits into our shop. However, the new Lemonds really are all they're cracked up to be. I found their ride to be far superior to any steel bike I've ridden (various Waterfords, Paramounts, Ritcheys, Tomassinis, and assorted Bianchis). I think those that believe the CF craze is marketing driven are right to a point; I also think that in this case Lemond is on to something.
Of course, this is all very subjective and could be debated until the end of time. 😄

I test-rode all-steel, all-CF, and aluminum framed bikes at price points similar to and even 30-40% higher than the '04 BA, and the ride of the BA was definitely the sweetest for me.

Some of that may have been frame geometry and fit, too, but I keep hearing good things about the Buenos Aires from even previously all-steel fans who wouldn't be predisposed to like the hybrid material design, but really liked the BA ride, anyway.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by lokstah
I think you and I just have to resolve to meet somewhere, because the creepy act you spin on these forums is just too hard to swallow.

It's no act.