lighting battery - decisions decisions :-(

gentlegreen said:

My other thought would be to profit from the boom in battery powered
drills and start using drill battery packs ...

What does the team think ?

yours, (currently forced to use emergency Cateye LED lights), of Bristol

Someone on the Cycling Plus forum has taken a high-powered torch from
Maplins to pieces to make a headlight. Run time was a bit short, IIRC.

gentlegreen said:

I hate the idea of buying NiCds because of the environmental
implications and I already have a decent Maplin automatic SLA
charger , so I am inclined towards Cyclon cells for one last attempt
at lead acid. 4 a/h of NiMH is comparable in price, but a smart NiMH
charger is 55 quid .......

13.2V NiMH smart charger is £39.99 from Lumicycle*. A worthwhile
long-term investment, I would have thought (as also would be a complete
Lumicycle system). High-capacity NiMHs are getting cheaper all the time,
are lighter than NiCds and substantially lighter than lead acid.

* http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/Productlist.aspx?page=1&dep=88

There are other companies selling NiMH battery packs and chargers for non
rip-off prices as well.... sorry, the names escape me now.

Alternatively......
My main battery is a Lumi Li-ION, but I made an alternative/back-up
battery from 12 ordinary AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (via eBay) in a Maplin
battery box, so I could use my AA charger (since that's the only charger I
have for NiMH). Powers an over-volted 10W 12V MR11 halogen lamp for about
2 hours. It is hassle unpacking and charging all those cells, but it's a
relatively cheap solution if you already have a decent suitable charger.
One advantage over tagged cells is that each individual cell gets well
looked after (if the charger has independent monitoring).

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

gentlegreen said:

I hate the idea of buying NiCds because of the environmental
implications and I already have a decent Maplin automatic SLA
charger , so I am inclined towards Cyclon cells for one last attempt
at lead acid. 4 a/h of NiMH is comparable in price, but a smart NiMH
charger is 55 quid .......

13.2V NiMH smart charger is £39.99 from Lumicycle*. A worthwhile
long-term investment, I would have thought (as also would be a complete
Lumicycle system). High-capacity NiMHs are getting cheaper all the time,
are lighter than NiCds and substantially lighter than lead acid.

* http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/Productlist.aspx?page=1&dep=88

Thanks :-)

maybe I'll bite the bullet - though I notice now that CPC have a cheaper
charger and I would probably try to get my NiMHs from somewhere else - I
wonder what A/H lumicycle's are to justify the price ...

Quoted message said:

There are other companies selling NiMH battery packs and chargers for non
rip-off prices as well.... sorry, the names escape me now.

Alternatively......
My main battery is a Lumi Li-ION, but I made an alternative/back-up
battery from 12 ordinary AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (via eBay) in a Maplin
battery box, so I could use my AA charger (since that's the only charger I
have for NiMH). Powers an over-volted 10W 12V MR11 halogen lamp for about
2 hours. It is hassle unpacking and charging all those cells, but it's a
relatively cheap solution if you already have a decent suitable charger.
One advantage over tagged cells is that each individual cell gets well
looked after (if the charger has independent monitoring).

~PB

gentlegreen said:

maybe I'll bite the bullet - though I notice now that CPC have a cheaper
charger and I would probably try to get my NiMHs from somewhere else - I
wonder what A/H lumicycle's are to justify the price ...

4 Ah, and I'm still getting over 3 actual useful (to 1.1V per cell, I
think, but maybe 1.0) after a few years of abuse.

My first home-brew light system used lead-acid batteries, but in the
first three years I went through one a year (basically). I then
changed over to NiCd, and got much better reliability from the
batteries.

I used battery packs intended for RC cars (6 cell, 7.2V driving dynamo
lights (ie nominally 6V) very happily). These are expected to have a
hard, hard life, at silly amps (I've drawn 50 amps from a sub-C NiCd
pack in my hovercraft) (but you won't get that out of a high capacity
NiMh - best you'll get from a sub-C cell is about 30 A), and they find
bike light situations very easy going.

(All past tense, because now I just use lumi.)

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

gentlegreen said:

maybe I'll bite the bullet - though I notice now that CPC have a
cheaper charger and I would probably try to get my NiMHs from
somewhere else - I wonder what A/H lumicycle's are to justify the
price ...

They don't seem to give the figure for the NiMH on the site. It's 4.4 Ah
for the medium Li-Ion. Good capacity to size/weight ratio also justifies
pricey batteries, if that's important to you. Lumicycle claim to use the
best cells available.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

gentlegreen said:

maybe I'll bite the bullet - though I notice now that CPC have a
cheaper charger and I would probably try to get my NiMHs from
somewhere else - I wonder what A/H lumicycle's are to justify the
price ...

They don't seem to give the figure for the NiMH on the site. It's 4.4 Ah
for the medium Li-Ion. Good capacity to size/weight ratio also justifies
pricey batteries, if that's important to you. Lumicycle claim to use the
best cells available.

~PB

For years i have used a lumotec halogen dynamo headlight, running off a
standard 6volt roadlamp battery. Get about 3 weeks normal use out of it
for £2.99 from wilco.

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

gentlegreen said:

I hate the idea of buying NiCds because of the environmental
implications and I already have a decent Maplin automatic SLA
charger , so I am inclined towards Cyclon cells for one last attempt
at lead acid. 4 a/h of NiMH is comparable in price, but a smart NiMH
charger is 55 quid .......

13.2V NiMH smart charger is £39.99 from Lumicycle*. A worthwhile
long-term investment, I would have thought (as also would be a complete
Lumicycle system). High-capacity NiMHs are getting cheaper all the time,
are lighter than NiCds and substantially lighter than lead acid.

* http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/Productlist.aspx?page=1&dep=88

There are other companies selling NiMH battery packs and chargers for non
rip-off prices as well.... sorry, the names escape me now.

Alternatively......
My main battery is a Lumi Li-ION, but I made an alternative/back-up
battery from 12 ordinary AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (via eBay) in a Maplin
battery box, so I could use my AA charger (since that's the only charger I
have for NiMH). Powers an over-volted 10W 12V MR11 halogen lamp for about
2 hours. It is hassle unpacking and charging all those cells, but it's a
relatively cheap solution if you already have a decent suitable charger.
One advantage over tagged cells is that each individual cell gets well
looked after (if the charger has independent monitoring).

Just ordered from a seller on Ebay :-

10 off 3.3 A/h tagged sub-c NiMH r/c cells - £16.50 (which is roughly the
same "A/h per £" as 4.5A/h cyclon packs discounted at CPC) SLA is half as
much but of course they're cr*p

.... and a smart charger for £11.50 !

I should have done this yonks ago !

If I remember, I will report back to say whether these are the bargain they
appear to be.

I also ordered 20 ultrabright red LEDs to make a new rear light and hence
hopefully get over 2 hours' running time. They're rated at 5Cd but over 25
degrees which is a bit narrow, but I plan to mount them on an arc of
silvered plastic sheet.

I also ordered 20 ultrabright white LEDs as an experiment to see if I can
live with even less wattage - would be fine for cycletracks.

See - I've been quite restrained - my original intention was to use about 50
LEDs in my tail light :-)

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be able
to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most cost-effective and
readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

gentlegreen said:

I hate the idea of buying NiCds because of the environmental
implications and I already have a decent Maplin automatic SLA
charger , so I am inclined towards Cyclon cells for one last attempt
at lead acid. 4 a/h of NiMH is comparable in price, but a smart NiMH
charger is 55 quid .......

13.2V NiMH smart charger is £39.99 from Lumicycle*. A worthwhile
long-term investment, I would have thought (as also would be a complete
Lumicycle system). High-capacity NiMHs are getting cheaper all the time,
are lighter than NiCds and substantially lighter than lead acid.

* http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/Productlist.aspx?page=1&dep=88

There are other companies selling NiMH battery packs and chargers for non
rip-off prices as well.... sorry, the names escape me now.

Alternatively......
My main battery is a Lumi Li-ION, but I made an alternative/back-up
battery from 12 ordinary AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (via eBay) in a Maplin
battery box, so I could use my AA charger (since that's the only charger I
have for NiMH). Powers an over-volted 10W 12V MR11 halogen lamp for about
2 hours. It is hassle unpacking and charging all those cells, but it's a
relatively cheap solution if you already have a decent suitable charger.
One advantage over tagged cells is that each individual cell gets well
looked after (if the charger has independent monitoring).

Just ordered from a seller on Ebay :-

10 off 3.3 A/h tagged sub-c NiMH r/c cells - £16.50 (which is roughly the
same "A/h per £" as 4.5A/h cyclon packs discounted at CPC) SLA is half as
much but of course they're cr*p

.... and a smart charger for £11.50 !

I should have done this yonks ago !

If I remember, I will report back to say whether these are the bargain they
appear to be.

I also ordered 20 ultrabright red LEDs to make a new rear light and hence
hopefully get over 2 hours' running time. They're rated at 5Cd but over 25
degrees which is a bit narrow, but I plan to mount them on an arc of
silvered plastic sheet.

I also ordered 20 ultrabright white LEDs as an experiment to see if I can
live with even less wattage - would be fine for cycletracks.

See - I've been quite restrained - my original intention was to use about 50
LEDs in my tail light :-)

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be able
to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most cost-effective and
readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

02 Nov gentlegreen said:

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be able
to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most cost-effective and
readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

Plus, for an emergency pack, I'd have thought you're better off with a
pack of alkaline cells - no concerns about self discharge 'till next
decade.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

02 Nov gentlegreen said:

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be able
to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most cost-effective and
readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

Plus, for an emergency pack, I'd have thought you're better off with a
pack of alkaline cells - no concerns about self discharge 'till next
decade.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

gentlegreen said:

Just ordered from a seller on Ebay :-

10 off 3.3 A/h tagged sub-c NiMH r/c cells - £16.50 (which is roughly
the same "A/h per £" as 4.5A/h cyclon packs discounted at CPC) SLA is
half as much but of course they're cr*p

... and a smart charger for £11.50 !

I should have done this yonks ago !

Perhaps I should have done that a couple of weeks ago instead of making my
silly "AA" pack! The cost of a charger put me off using tagged cells--I
didn't know they could be bought for £11.50 either.

I look forward to any further reports/reviews.

~PB

gentlegreen said:

Just ordered from a seller on Ebay :-

10 off 3.3 A/h tagged sub-c NiMH r/c cells - £16.50 (which is roughly
the same "A/h per £" as 4.5A/h cyclon packs discounted at CPC) SLA is
half as much but of course they're cr*p

... and a smart charger for £11.50 !

I should have done this yonks ago !

Perhaps I should have done that a couple of weeks ago instead of making my
silly "AA" pack! The cost of a charger put me off using tagged cells--I
didn't know they could be bought for £11.50 either.

I look forward to any further reports/reviews.

~PB

Ian Smith said:

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

I'm finding new BetterPower AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (marked "min 2350mAh"😉
are delivering the full current but the minimum capacity is nowhere near
the claimed amount when using 12 cells to power a 12V 10W lamp. Is that
because the drain is much higher than what the cells are designed for, or
because the manufacturer is telling fibs, or a bit of both? (I think they
have been charged well, and I've given them a few full cycles).

What does the "min" really mean anyway?

~PB

Ian Smith said:

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

I'm finding new BetterPower AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (marked "min 2350mAh"😉
are delivering the full current but the minimum capacity is nowhere near
the claimed amount when using 12 cells to power a 12V 10W lamp. Is that
because the drain is much higher than what the cells are designed for, or
because the manufacturer is telling fibs, or a bit of both? (I think they
have been charged well, and I've given them a few full cycles).

What does the "min" really mean anyway?

~PB

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 02 Nov gentlegreen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be

able

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most

cost-effective and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/component-shop_W0QQssPageNameZviQ3asibQ3astoreviewQQtZkm

This guy seems to know his stuff.

He reckons I'll get 70 minutes at 2.5 amps from these 3.3 A/H tagged cells,
but I'm aiming to reduce my requirements quite significantly anyway ...
(these are, after all designed for r/c racing models...

Quoted message said:

Plus, for an emergency pack, I'd have thought you're better off with a
pack of alkaline cells - no concerns about self discharge 'till next
decade.

You're probably right - I'll do this instead - should be no problem at all
once I have LED lamps front and back :-)

Quoted message said:

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"Ian Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 02 Nov gentlegreen <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm hoping to standardise on tamiya r/c power connectors and hence be

able

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to carry an emergency pack of AA NiMH - which is the most

cost-effective and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

readily available way of buying NiMH capacity ....

Beware that a given cell will have a maximum current capacity, and if
you try and draw more current, the voltage falls off to practically
nothing.

One problem with the fixation on higher capacity is that the
manufacturers are tending to increase capacity at the expense of
current capability, imo. A big capacity might differentiate their
product, irrespective of whether it's actually useful. Consumer AA
cells might give you the capacity, but they might not give you the
current you want.

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/component-shop_W0QQssPageNameZviQ3asibQ3astoreviewQQtZkm

This guy seems to know his stuff.

He reckons I'll get 70 minutes at 2.5 amps from these 3.3 A/H tagged cells,
but I'm aiming to reduce my requirements quite significantly anyway ...
(these are, after all designed for r/c racing models...

Quoted message said:

Plus, for an emergency pack, I'd have thought you're better off with a
pack of alkaline cells - no concerns about self discharge 'till next
decade.

You're probably right - I'll do this instead - should be no problem at all
once I have LED lamps front and back :-)

Quoted message said:

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
For years i have used a lumotec halogen dynamo headlight, running off a
standard 6volt roadlamp battery. Get about 3 weeks normal use out of it
for £2.99 from wilco.

LOL

I'd hazard a guess your cycle route / riding style are a little different to
mine ...

what price do you put on staying uninjured / alive ?

Pete Biggs said:

I'm finding new BetterPower AA NiMH 2700mAh cells (marked "min 2350mAh"😉
are delivering the full current but the minimum capacity is nowhere near
the claimed amount when using 12 cells to power a 12V 10W lamp.

The cells' capacity will be at a specified drain rate such as C/10
(270mA, maybe 235mA if that's how they fudge the figures).

A 12V 10W lamp run at 14.4V nominal will probably draw more like 12-14W:
roughly an amp. This is much higher than the rated current for the
capacity, so you'll never see the full 2.7Ah.

--
Mark.
http://tranchant.plus.com/