Lighting--Update to http://bicyclelighting.com

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

And as to LED flahsers - they are illegal when fixed to a bike in the
UK. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr

They are illegal but approaching ubiquity so that they unmistakebly
say "cyclist" especially as the emergency services in the UK do not
use flashing red lights.

I'm sure that most Britons have no idea that flashing lights mounted
on the bicycle are illegal, and I'm not aware of anyone having been
prosecuted for using one. People reasonably, and often wrongly, assume
that when they go into a bicycle shop and ask for a set of lights to
use on the road, what they will be shown will be both legal and
adequate.

I try to avoid the issue by using a steady light mounted on the bike
and a blinkie or two on my clothing or panniers, which probably is
legal (I don't think it's yet been tested in court). Unfortunately
even my steady light is technically illegal as it does not conform to
the British Standard when used with the mounting bracket it was
supplied with. I don't have pedal reflectors either, so I'm doubly
illegal.

By using more than one light, combined with a red rear reflector and a
certain amount of rear facing white reflective material, I hope to get
all the advantages. The blinkie and the reflective material on my
lower legs should help motorists to notice me sooner, and also
immediately recognise me as a cyclist. The steady light, the red
reflector, and the reflectives on my panniers and jacket should help
them to locate me more precisely.

--
Dave...

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]
<[email hidden]>> wrote in message
<news:[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The LD1000 is not kitemarked so is also illegal on the UK's roads. It
doesn't have the E mark either, so I don't think it is legal elsewhere
in Europe (it does have the CE mark, but that means nothing).

Are the non-certified lamps sold at all? Are these sorts of certification
requirements ever enforced by police (or anyone).
Technically, in most of the U.S. red flashers are illegal, including where I
live, in California, but they are widely sold and widely used and I've never
heard of any enforcement action.

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red lights
for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state the
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without mentioning the
flashing red lights?

Flashing amber is permitted when a hazard exists, though they don't
explicitly state what these hazards are. Technically, I should have a solid
red light and a flashing amber light on my bicycle, but I don't have the
solid red.

Steve
http://bicyclelighting.com

"Believe what you're told. There'd be chaos if everyone thought for oneself"
World Famous Top Dog Hot Dog Stand, Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose

"Dave Kahn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And as to LED flahsers - they are illegal when fixed to a bike in the
UK. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr

They are illegal but approaching ubiquity so that they unmistakebly
say "cyclist" especially as the emergency services in the UK do not
use flashing red lights.

I'm sure that most Britons have no idea that flashing lights mounted
on the bicycle are illegal, and I'm not aware of anyone having been
prosecuted for using one. People reasonably, and often wrongly, assume
that when they go into a bicycle shop and ask for a set of lights to
use on the road, what they will be shown will be both legal and
adequate.

Same in the U.S., well at least in many states. The California Vehicle Code
prohibits flashing red lights, but they are sold at every bike shop, drug
store, hardware store, etc. I guess the store has no liability for selling
the product, it's the user that has the ultimate responsibility.

Quoted message said:

I try to avoid the issue by using a steady light mounted on the bike
and a blinkie or two on my clothing or panniers, which probably is
legal (I don't think it's yet been tested in court).

In California it would be illegal. There is a prohibition on flashing red
lights, period. The requirement for a rear light is seperate

Steven M. Scharf said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]
<[email hidden]>> wrote in message
<news:[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

The LD1000 is not kitemarked so is also illegal on the UK's roads. It
doesn't have the E mark either, so I don't think it is legal elsewhere
in Europe (it does have the CE mark, but that means nothing).

Are the non-certified lamps sold at all? Are these sorts of certification
requirements ever enforced by police (or anyone).
Technically, in most of the U.S. red flashers are illegal, including where I
live, in California, but they are widely sold and widely used and I've never
heard of any enforcement action.

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red lights
for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state the
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without mentioning the
flashing red lights?

Because flashing red lights are *not* prohibited on bicycles. The
California code is very explicit in excluding bicycles from the
definition of vehicles, so the more general prohibition of flashing
lights on vehicles doesn't apply.

Steven M. Scharf said:

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red lights
for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state the
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without mentioning the
flashing red lights?

In certain sections of the CA vehicle code bicycles are not
considered to be vehicles. If this is one of those sections then
it implies that flashing red lights are acceptable on bicycles.

Quoted message said:

Flashing amber is permitted when a hazard exists, though they don't
explicitly state what these hazards are. Technically, I should have a solid
red light and a flashing amber light on my bicycle, but I don't have the
solid red.

Every car I've seen flashes its red brake lights to indicate a
hazard ("four-way flashers"😉. Do some vehicles have extra amber
lights to indicate a hazard? (Or have I been missing something
all these years?)
--
Ben Pfaff
email: [email hidden]
web: http://benpfaff.org

Steven M. Scharf said:

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red
lights for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state
the prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without
mentioning the flashing red lights?

Flashing blue lights are for police only, including bicycle police. So
displaying a flashing blue light could be construed as impersonating a
policeman. Not all police departments use these on their bikes, but many do.
Nightsun and Nightrider have both marketed them. You had to be on bona fide
police business to get them.

Quoted message said:

Flashing amber is permitted when a hazard exists, though they don't
explicitly state what these hazards are.

Slow moving vehicle! Note that street sweepers, snow plows, tow trucks, highway
work vehicles, etc., all have flashing yellow lights. There's a triangular sign
to be posted on the backs of these vehicles too.

Quoted message said:

I should have a
solid red light and a flashing amber light on my bicycle, but I don't
have the solid red.

Like many of us. OMG!

Geez, Steven, I thought you were the authority on this stuff. After all, your
website positions you as such.

Matt O.

"Steven M. Scharf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Since a lot of people apparently don't understand the differences between
various lamps, or the trade-offs, I added a whole section on the optics
debate to my web site. I especially like Marty Goodman's statements
regarding safety and field of view, since apparently some people believe
that there is nothing inherently bad about a very narrow field of view,
making the BiSy the greatest thing since sliced bread.

I remember a lot of messages on the bikecurrent mailing
list 8-10 years ago which compared dynamo lights like a
Busch & Mueller Lumotec and a MR11/MR16. Marty Goodman
was always a proponent of the battery lights but he didn't
have much experience of dynamo lights. Indeed one of his
early posts said something like a 3W dynamo light only
being safe for use up to something like 6 or 8mph (certainly
much much less than 10mph). This was just from a guess at
the performance of a 5W and 10W MR11 system.

Anyway a few years later he actually tried a Lumotec light
for himself and he wrote how he was impressed with its performance.
It wasn't for him as he tended to ride off road for an hour or two,
where everyone accepts that rechargable lights are always going to
be best.

For a light to see things by, you need a lot more power to see a
little bit further. To be seen by other people from twice as far
away needs four times as much power. However, to see something from
twice as far away, you need 16 times as much power. The light
spreads out both between your light and the object and from the object
back to your eye. The light reflected from the object means that
effectively its a point source (assuming you're looking at something
small from a distance). This means that you need a whole lot more
power to go a little faster.

--
Andrew Henry
[email hidden]

Steven M. Scharf said:

Are the non-certified lamps sold at all? Are these sorts of certification
requirements ever enforced by police (or anyone).

Yes, and generally no. But there has been at least one finding of
contributory negligence against a cyclist who was hit from behind when
using a flashing LED, even though research shows that flashing lights
are between three and five times more visible.

This is due to the influence of the species Mustela Litigensis, a
common urban pest which has proved surprisingly hard to eradicate.

Quoted message said:

Technically, in most of the U.S. red flashers are illegal, including where I
live, in California, but they are widely sold and widely used and I've never
heard of any enforcement action.

It is much more likely that this sort of thing will come up in
personal injury cases, since the small number of police (here anyway)
who actually know the law, are generally smart enough to realise that
it is stupid.

Quoted message said:

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red lights
for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state the
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without mentioning the
flashing red lights?

Because they areprohibited for all vehicles, is my guess. You haven't
forgotten that a bike is a vehicle, have you? ;-)

Quoted message said:

Flashing amber is permitted when a hazard exists, though they don't
explicitly state what these hazards are. Technically, I should have a solid
red light and a flashing amber light on my bicycle, but I don't have the
solid red.

Read it carefully. Here you can identify hazards with flashing
/orange/ beacons, but flashing /red/ is reserved for emergency
vehicles.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Just zis Guy said:

Steven M. Scharf said:

Technically, in most of the U.S. red flashers are illegal, including where I
live, in California, but they are widely sold and widely used and I've never
heard of any enforcement action.

It is much more likely that this sort of thing will come up in
personal injury cases, since the small number of police (here anyway)
who actually know the law, are generally smart enough to realise that
it is stupid.

But in California the red flashing lights are legal for bicycles.
It's just that Steven doesn't actually know the law. A red reflector is
still required even if you also have a red flashing light.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Interestingly, in the California vehicle code there is an explicit
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, and flashing red lights
for all vehicles. Why would the vehicle code explicitly state the
prohibition on flashing blue lights for bicycles, without mentioning the
flashing red lights?

Because they areprohibited for all vehicles, is my guess. You haven't
forgotten that a bike is a vehicle, have you? ;-)

Depends on whether you're using "vehicle" as a normal English word or
in the context of the California Vehicle Code. In the first case a
bicycle is certainly included, but the CVC explicitly defines "vehicle"
for the purposes of the document to exclude human-powered conveyances.