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Liquid Meat

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2 February 2006
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  1. From: "Robert Cohen" <notmilk@...>
    Date: Wed Jan 18, 2006 9:04 am
    Subject: The Problem with Protein notmilk2002
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    The Problem with Protein

    Many people refer to milk as liquid meat, for good reason.
    Our children are taught in kindergarten that animal
    protein consumption is essential for their good health.
    Year after year that lie is reinforced with only one
    side of the scientific story, and that is criminal.

    Why do nations with the highest rates of bone
    disease also have the highest milk consumption rates?
    The highest rates of osteoporosis are to be found in
    Denmark, Holland, Norway, and Sweden.

    The Key to Bone Disease

    It's not how much calcium you eat. It's how much calcium
    you prevent from leaving your bones. Real science has
    taught that dietary calcium plays little or no role in
    preventing bone loss. Bone density is genetically
    determined, and no amount of calcium will you into
    a winning race horse or circus elephant (both, very'
    powerful vegans).

    Why Does Calcium Leave Bones?

    There are 28 amino acids in nature. The human body
    can manufacture 19 of them. The other nine are
    called "essential." We must get them from the foods
    we eat.

    One of those "essential" aminos is methionine.

    One needs methionine for many human metabolic
    functions including digestion, detoxification of heavy
    metals, and muscle metabolism. However, an excess
    of methionine can be toxic.

    Methionine = C-5, H-11, NO, S

    Methionine is a great source for sulfur. That's the problem.
    Rotten egg smells come from the high sulfur content. Imagine
    rotten egg smell infusing into every cell of your body.

    Eat foods containing too much methionine, and your blood
    will become acidic. The sulfur converts to sulfates and weak
    forms of sulfuric acid. In order to neutralize the acid, in its
    wisdom, the body leaches calcium from bones.

    "Dietary protein increases production of acid in the blood
    which can be neutralized by calcium mobilized from the
    skeleton." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, 1995; 61,4}

    Animal proteins contain more methionine than plant
    proteins. Let's compare cow's milk to soymilk:

    Methionine in 100 grams of soymilk: .040 grams
    Methionine in 100 grams of whole milk: .083 grams
    Methionine in 100 grams of skim milk: .099 grams

    Now, let's compare 100 gram portions of tofu to meat:
    (All of the meat products are lean and without skin)

    Silken soft tofu: .074 grams
    Hamburger: .282 grams
    Hard boiled egg: .392 grams
    Roast ham: .535 grams
    Baked codfish: .679 grams
    Swiss cheese .784 grams
    Roast chicken: .801 grams

    In 1988, N.A. Breslau and colleagues identified the relationship
    between protein-rich diets and calcium metabolism, noting that
    protein caused calcium loss. His work was published in the
    Journal of Clinical Endocrinology (1988;66:140-6).

    A 1994 study published in the American Journal of Clinical
    Nutrition (Remer T, Am J Clin Nutr 1994;59:1356-61) found
    that animal proteins cause calcium to be leached from the
    bones and excreted in the urine.

    Additional Supporting Evidence

    "Osteoporosis is caused by a number of things, one
    of the most important being too much dietary protein."
    {Science 1986;233, 4763}

    "Even when eating 1,400 mg of calcium daily, one can lose
    up to 4% of his or her bone mass each year while consuming
    a high-protein diet." {American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
    1979;32,4}

    "Increasing one's protein intake by 100% may cause calcium
    loss to double." {Journal of Nutrition, 1981; 111, 3}

    "The average man in the US eats 175% more protein than the
    recommended daily allowance and the average woman eats
    144% more." {Surgeon General's Report on Nutrition and
    Health, 1988}

    "Consumption of dairy products, particularly at age 20 years,
    were associated with an increased risk of hip fractures...
    metabolism of dietary protein causes increased urinary
    excretion of calcium." {American Journal of Epidemiology
    1994;139}

    Can it get worse? Absolutely.

    The Framingham Heart Study is the largest and most
    exciting heart study in the history of mankind. Some
    of the highlights of this exhaustive 50 year study:

    In 1960, Cigarette smoking was found to increase the risk
    of heart disease.

    In 1970, high blood pressure was found to increase the risk
    of stroke.

    During the 1980's, high levels of HDL cholesterol were found
    to reduce risk of death from heart disease.

    In the 1990's, homocysteines were identified as key factors
    in heart attack deaths.

    Homocysteines are normal breakdown products of
    Methionine and are believed to exert a number of
    toxic effects in the body.

    Dr. Castelli has suggested that an elevated homocysteine
    level is a risk factor for heart disease. The first evidence
    of this was published in the American Journal of
    Cardiology (Glueck, 1995;75:132-6).

    Two recent publications resulting from Framingham data
    indicate a positive correlation between cardiovascular disease
    mortality and blood serum levels of homocysteine.

    Bostom AG, et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine
    levels and all-cause and cardiovascular disease mortality in
    elderly Framingham men and women. Arch Intern Med
    1999; 159:1077-1080.

    Bostom A.G., et. al, Nonfasting plasma total homocysteine
    levels and stroke incidence in elderly persons: the
    Framingham Study. Ann Intern Med 131[5], 352-355, 1999.

    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero. Then, if only you were able to
    investigate each occupant, you would determine that his
    or her stroke, heart attack, cancer, diabetes, etc, can
    be traced back to a diet containing an overabundance of
    dietary animal protein. America is the sickest, wealthiest
    place to raise children, and we are doomed to invest
    our assets in a ravenous health cars system that devours
    dollars while continuously reinforcing pain.

    Robert Cohen
    http://www.notmilk.com

  2. Quoted message said:


    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero.
    <

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

  3. Just Cocky said:
    Quoted message said:


    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero.
    <

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

    Alright then,................how many end up in hospital each year from
    eating too little protein?

  4. On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 19:21:31 -0500, Just Cocky wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero.

    From a vegetarian site:

    http://www.vnv.org.au/Nutrition/Protein.htm#Protein Deficiency
    QUOTE
    Protein Deficiency

    Protein deficiency is rare in Western countries but has wide-ranging
    effects on the body. Dietary protein deficiency in humans occurs
    principally in children in the form of kwashiorkor, although a similar
    syndrome is sometimes seen in severely depleted hospital patients with
    increased protein catabolism.

    Kwashiorkor occurs most commonly in areas of famine, limited food
    supply, and low levels of education, which can lead to inadequate
    knowledge of proper diet. Early symptoms of any type of malnutrition
    are very general and include fatigue, irritability, and lethargy. As
    protein deprivation continues, growth failure, loss of muscle mass,
    generalised swelling (oedema), and decreased immunity occur. A large,
    protuberant belly is common. Skin conditions, such as dermatitis,
    changes in pigmentation, thinning of hair, and vitiligo (loss of skin
    colour) can also occur.
    UNQUOTE

    Besides...

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001604.htm
    QUOTE
    Kwashiorkor

    Alternative names
    Protein malnutrition; Protein-calorie malnutrition; Malignant
    malnutrition; Mehlä hrschaden

    Definition

    Kwashiorkor is a form of malnutrition caused by inadequate protein
    intake in the presence of fair to good energy (total calories) intake.

    Causes, incidence, and risk factors

    Kwashiorkor occurs most commonly in areas of famine, limited food
    supply, and low levels of education, which can lead to inadequate
    knowledge of proper diet.

    Early symptoms of any type of malnutrition are very general and
    include fatigue, irritability, and lethargy. As protein deprivation
    continues, growth failure, loss of muscle mass, generalized swelling
    (edema), and decreased immunity occur.

    A large, protuberant belly is common. Skin conditions (such as
    dermatitis, changes in pigmentation, thinning of hair, and vitiligo)
    are seen frequently. Shock and coma precede death.

    The incidence of kwashiorkor in children in the U.S. is extremely low
    and only rare, isolated cases are seen.

    This is typically a disease of impoverished countries, and is often
    seen in the midst of drought or political turmoil. However, one
    government estimate suggests that as many as 50% of elderly persons in
    nursing homes in the U.S. suffer from protein-calorie malnutrition.

    [...]
    UNQUOTE

    Quoted message said:

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

    BTW, how many patients stay in hospital as a result of eating too
    little fat or too little carbohydrate?

    X'Posted to: sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition

    --
    Enrico C

    * cut the ending "cut-togli.invalid" string when replying by email *

  5. Quoted message said:


    Just Cocky said:
    Quoted message said:


    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero.
    <

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

    Alright then,................how many end up in hospital each year from
    eating too little protein?

    Very few, as this type of malnutrition is very rare in developed
    countries. On the other hand, the number of children suffering from
    kwashiorkor, inadequate protein intake in the presence of adequate
    calorie intake, is in the millions in Africa. They just don't have
    access to hospitals.

  6. Quoted message said:


    Just Cocky said:
    Quoted message said:


    Visit your local hospital and ask how many patients
    occupy beds as a result of eating too little protein.
    The answer will be zero.
    <

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

    Alright then,................how many end up in hospital each year from
    eating too little protein?

    How do I know?

  7. Quoted message said:


    Why do nations with the highest rates of bone
    disease also have the highest milk consumption rates?
    The highest rates of osteoporosis are to be found in
    Denmark, Holland, Norway, and Sweden.

    People who live in northern countries may have vitimin D deficiencies
    because they are exposed to less sunlight. Excess milk consumption may
    not be the only reason they have high rates of osteoporosis. Vitamin D
    is necessary to build strong bones. All the king's horses and all the
    king's men can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again if he lacks
    Vitamin D.

    Nonetheless, overconsumption of milk is not a good idea. I think ice
    cream is leading to the downfall of America. Its everyones secret
    addiction. I wonder if there are any statistics on ice cream
    consumption anywhere. When I was waiting on the supermarket quick
    checkout line last weekend, behind me and in front of me were virile
    he-men in their late 30's with their arms full of ice cream products.
    Its not just chubby ladies sitting on the sofa reading mysteries. its
    Chubby Hubbys as well and guys in general packing on the pounds with
    yummy ice cream. Cheese is another culprit that cant be contained.

  8. On 2 Feb 2006 05:59:21 -0800, cardarch wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    Nonetheless, overconsumption of milk is not a good idea. I think ice
    cream is leading to the downfall of America. Its everyones secret
    addiction. I wonder if there are any statistics on ice cream
    consumption anywhere. When I was waiting on the supermarket quick
    checkout line last weekend, behind me and in front of me were virile
    he-men in their late 30's with their arms full of ice cream products.
    Its not just chubby ladies sitting on the sofa reading mysteries. its
    Chubby Hubbys as well and guys in general packing on the pounds with
    yummy ice cream.

    I gather that in industrial and semi-industrial ice creams (the ones I
    don't buy) milk powder replaces fresh mil and vegetal oils, often
    including hydrogenated fats, are also used. And sugars such as sucrose
    and glucose-based corn syrup. At least that happens in some countries.
    I read that in North America ice cream ingredients may be somewhat
    different though.

    http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/icingr.html
    "Vegetable (non-dairy) fats are used extensively as fat sources in ice
    cream in the United Kingdom, parts of Europe, the Far East, and Latin
    America but only to a very limited extent in North America."

    X'Posted to: sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition

  9. On 2 Feb 2006 05:59:21 -0800, cardarch wrote in
    <news:[email hidden]> on
    sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition :

    Quoted message said:

    Nonetheless, overconsumption of milk is not a good idea. I think ice
    cream is leading to the downfall of America. Its everyones secret
    addiction. I wonder if there are any statistics on ice cream
    consumption anywhere. When I was waiting on the supermarket quick
    checkout line last weekend, behind me and in front of me were virile
    he-men in their late 30's with their arms full of ice cream products.
    Its not just chubby ladies sitting on the sofa reading mysteries. its
    Chubby Hubbys as well and guys in general packing on the pounds with
    yummy ice cream.

    I gather that in industrial and semi-industrial ice creams (the ones I
    don't buy) milk powder replaces fresh milk. And vegetal oils, often
    including hydrogenated fats, are also used. And sugars such as sucrose
    and glucose-based corn syrup. At least that happens in some countries.
    I read that in North America ice cream ingredients may be somewhat
    different though.

    http://www.foodsci.uoguelph.ca/dairyedu/icingr.html
    "Vegetable (non-dairy) fats are used extensively as fat sources in ice
    cream in the United Kingdom, parts of Europe, the Far East, and Latin
    America but only to a very limited extent in North America."

    X'Posted to: sci.agriculture,sci.med.nutrition

  10. Quoted message said:

    Why do nations with the highest rates of bone
    disease also have the highest milk consumption >rates?
    The highest rates of osteoporosis are to be found in
    Denmark, Holland, Norway, and Sweden.

    I dunno, but what about the Swiss? How do they fare on their
    high-in-dairy diet?

    Rob

  11. Liquid Meat = Maggots run through a blender

    Ugh!

  12. Quoted message said:

    Liquid Meat = Maggots run through a blender

    Sounds like a typical beverage served up by Fear Factor.

    Quoted message said:

    Ugh!

    Yup!

    Rob

  13. Quoted message said:

    Eat foods containing too much methionine, and your blood
    will become acidic. The sulfur converts to sulfates and weak
    forms of sulfuric acid. In order to neutralize the acid, in its
    wisdom, the body leaches calcium from bones.

    Then increase intake of pyridoxal phosphate which increase ratio of
    taurine to SO4 ratio since more cystein will be decarboxylated instead
    of being processed toward pyruvate (and Krebs cyclus) and sulfate.

  14. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This statistic just taken out of some vegan's ass.

    Alright then,................how many end up in hospital each year from
    eating too little protein?

    Recent studies has shown that most diabetic II patients has been so
    because mother lacked protein and especially cystein/methionine in
    diet during pregnancy. The effect is easily shown in mice and rats,
    but epidemiological data, especially from India, and in the next 20
    year from Afganisthan and Iraq (due to forced malnutrition, enforged
    by the military interventions and food blockades).

    When the fetus is growing and protein is lacking, and very much
    lacking taurine, the pancreas is not fully developed, lacking lot of
    beta cells that is never replenished, not only in child, but in the
    offsprings of the affected children for several generations (mice)

    So, in Afganisthan, WFP has enforced a diabetes epidemy which
    dimensions are still to be seen due to dumping almost protein free
    bleached wheat flour as sole food ingredients to most of the starving
    people there.

    It is also interesting to see that in mice, if fed taurine, the effect
    of protein starvation is abolished. But, if fed a protein rich diet
    high in sulfur and then giving taurine, the same inhibition of
    pancreas growth is seen.

    Otherwise it has recently been shown that taurine is involved in at
    least two amino acid tRNA molecules in mitochondria, and optimal RNA
    production is dependent on taurine. An effect of lacking the enzymes
    to produce these two tRNAs is that these persons are getting seizures
    of a very special type.
    It is plausible to believe that relative taurine deficiency also
    dispose for miscoding and abortion of translation of tRNA into
    proteins and thus, impaired energy production, in part leading to
    several diseases, among them other form of seizures, curable with
    increased intake of taurine. The lack of taurine in mice which end up
    with a transferable defect giving both decreased ability to use
    glucose and ketone bodies for fuel, giving lactic acid from glucose
    and other stuff from ketone bodies, might also be part of the
    explanation why even people in Western hemisphere now experience an
    explosion of fatness and diabetes, since diet today in Western
    hemisphere is almost devoid of any taurine, while Japan diet and
    Kretan diet (before tourism damaged their diet) was very rich in
    taurine, both from fish, some meats, but also from certain vegetables
    and fruits grown under harsh, almost water-free conditions. If
    correct, the use of irrigation in agriculture, use of food ingredients
    low in sulphur for animals (in order to reduce stinking deposits) etc.
    may play a central role in the increase of modern habit diseases.

    And then, combined with feeding animals a diet containing almost only
    omega-6 acids because such ingredients are so much cheaper and has so
    much more energy and volume than weeds etc. and left overs from
    household that was used for dieting animals 100 years ago and more,
    the tremendous omega-6 to omega-3 ratio has even more engraved the
    problems since taurine has a natural position in preventing the
    damages otherwise done by increased amounts of arachidonate in diet.

    (Taurine reacts freely with all aldehyde groups, among them the
    keto-form of glucose and fructose, MDA, formaldehyde formed from
    HOCl-attack of glycine during respiratory burst etc, etc.)

    By the way, chicken legs are said to be a rich source of taurine,
    together with drought stressed lentils and Chinese wolf berries
    (Lycium barbarum)
    (When cultivated with irrigation, the cells has no need at all to turn
    proteins into osmolytes (free amino acids and taurine) to keep water
    turgor at constant level and thus, no taurine formation. So all
    vegetables should be totally devoid of it, as measured. But, it is
    still possible that far more vegetables do produce taurine and other
    free amino acids in order to keep up water turgor when grown during
    drought spells

  15. Robert Klute said:

    Very few, as this type of malnutrition is very rare in developed
    countries. On the other hand, the number of children suffering from
    kwashiorkor, inadequate protein intake in the presence of adequate
    calorie intake, is in the millions in Africa. They just don't have
    access to hospitals.

    Valid today, but only 50 years ago, during food ration times after WW
    II, protein quality could be dramatically low also in Western
    countries. And now, growing up children are generation nr 2 after
    that, but now women are damaging the mitochondrial DNA by smoking, and
    even more make mitochondria able to turn glucose into ATP and H2O, but
    even more free radicals and increased oxydative stress.

    And, result, even more diabetes and fatness.
    Since decreased ability to make ATP through electron transport chain
    mean glycolysis much faster end up in formation of lactic acid and
    thus muscle pain. Next step? People don't move, but still eat just as
    much as before. Next?? Fat is building up.
    And by same mechanism, glucose is not burnt like before and build up
    in blood, giving hyperglycemia.

  16. cardarch said:

    People who live in northern countries may have vitimin D deficiencies
    because they are exposed to less sunlight. Excess milk consumption may
    not be the only reason they have high rates of osteoporosis. Vitamin D
    is necessary to build strong bones. All the king's horses and all the
    king's men can't put Humpty Dumpty back together again if he lacks
    Vitamin D.

    Another factor is borone deficiency because people often eat less
    apples etc. in the north because they has to be imported long
    distance, making them very expensive, and then people tend to eat
    potato chips etc. instead.

    Borone is also an important component, together with adequate amount
    of fluorine (which is another good candidate for osteoporosis
    development in Scandinavian countries since it is a mineral that is
    almost lacking in ground, I had an episode of starting osteoporosis in
    my back myself, and after using flurine tablets for about 2 year, all
    signs had disappeared (I had at that time still problems with milk
    allergy and hadn¨t dared to try other milk products like sour milk or
    youghurt since I risked a heavy reaction. While hospitalized three
    years ago for almost 3 weeks, I used the opportunity to test different
    products finding that only whole milk, unboiled gave me the typical
    reactions in my mouth and later itches, so now I use alternative milk
    products daily, even being diabetic I, but my back has thus improved
    strongly since)

    Another stuff rather recently shown to play important froles in
    function of both osteoclasts and osteoblasts, is of all things,
    taurine. Lack of taurine also increases chances for osteoporosis, and
    since milk in Scandinavia is completely devoid in taurine, most
    probably due to a mutation some time during the development of the NRF
    cow (is the connexin 26 defunct in our cow, the taurine sensitive
    water transport molecule btw. adjacent cells in lactating cells, thus
    increasing tremendously the milk amount produced pr cow, most probably
    by diluting the milk with huge amounts of water, making the milk only
    fit for human use). It seems like Taurine cattle do produce much more
    taurine in milk in the next months after colostrum production, while
    our cow loose all taurine at the same time as colostrum is used. Human
    mother milk on the opposite only slightly decrease the amount of
    taurine during lactation period, unless the mother eat a sulphur amino
    acid deficient diet. In such cases, taurine improved mother milk
    substitute should be given, but not other mother milk substitutes.

    Unfortunately, all of you who was not fed breast milk, did not get
    taurine at all as baby. And that might have had rather bad effects,
    both on nerve development, possibly increasing risk of ADHD, impaired
    pancreas growth, making you prone of getting diabetes, and finally,
    the womens has also impaired mitochondria that will be transferred to
    your babies, making them also less able to digest carbohydrates :-(

    And, if you smoke during childhood, chances are even bigger that you
    will hurt your mitochondrial DNA which is only transferred from mother
    to child, and make the next generation even less able to utilise
    glucose for energy production, and make them even fattier, more prone
    to diabetes II and possibly many other diseases :-(

  17. Enrico C said:

    cream in the United Kingdom, parts of Europe, the Far East, and Latin
    America but only to a very limited extent in North America."

    And Norway. Use of any other fat than milk fat was strictly forbidden
    by law in ice cream.
    I'm afraid EU has overridden that law :-( In order to poison the
    Norwegian people and increase profit by doing so since plant fats are
    cheaper.
    (I know this because someone managed to make ice cream from fish and
    fish fat. My mother said she couldn't tell the difference, but it was
    stated that it was forbidden to sell. and that it was borderline to
    serve it at that meeting about fish proteins.

    (DId you know that the total production of fish proteins now used for
    feeding salmon and trout could easily feed almost 50% more people than
    living in the world today. And all famine episodes in Africa, Iraq and
    Afganisthan could have been solved if WFP and Red cross had accepted
    using FPC type B for catastrophe aid.

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