Lock Opened With Ball Point Pen

I've been wondering about this for awhile. Chain and wire cable can be cut
easily with either bolt/cable cutters or cordless grinders. But what about
cable wound from both wire and kevlar? A bolt cutter would have a tough time
because the kevlar strands would crush but not sever. Grinding would be
difficult for the same reason, and because the cable would be too flexible. It
could be cut for sure, but it would take longer, and maybe require stopping a
few times to hack away with another tool, like a knife. Any ideas? Has this
already been tried?

Matt O.

Matt O'Toole said:

I've been wondering about this for awhile. Chain and wire cable can be cut
easily with either bolt/cable cutters or cordless grinders. But what about
cable wound from both wire and kevlar? A bolt cutter would have a tough time
because the kevlar strands would crush but not sever. Grinding would be
difficult for the same reason, and because the cable would be too flexible. It
could be cut for sure, but it would take longer, and maybe require stopping a
few times to hack away with another tool, like a knife. Any ideas? Has this
already been tried?

Matt O.

Yes, it's basically a good idea.

From another life, I've learned that a good way to secure anything is with
multiple devices that require multiple defeating tools. What would be ideal
is something like a twisted or braided cable wrapped around hardened dowel
pins or broken pieces of carbide. That is then covered with a thick layer
of tar and then a nice vinyl (or whatever) cover to keep things clean.

The dowel pins/carbide prevent cutting with hacksaws and the like. The tar
makes a horrible mess when cuting with grinding type tools. The tar just
makes a sticky mess and it also smells bad when over heated from the
cutter/grinder or if torched.

Of course, given enough time and energy, all locks can be defeated. All you
want to achieve is maximizing the time to the point that the thief will
decide to look elsewhere.

On a side note:
In Daly City, CA over the weekend. A city street was marked with many No
Parking signs for construction about to begin on the said street. Cars etc.
where to be towed away if parked during construction period. A bike was
"Krytonite-d" to a street sign. The city workers needed to remove the bike
as it was illegally "parked" and in the way. My friend witnessed them
removing the bike from the street sign. How did they do it you asked? They
cut the FRAME, removed the offending bike, and left the Krytonite secured to
the pole!! ...one way to defeat a lock.
--
Skuke
Reverse the domain name to send email

skuke said:

In Daly City, CA over the weekend. A city street was marked with many No
Parking signs for construction about to begin on the said street. Cars etc.
where to be towed away if parked during construction period. A bike was
"Krytonite-d" to a street sign. The city workers needed to remove the bike
as it was illegally "parked" and in the way. My friend witnessed them
removing the bike from the street sign. How did they do it you asked? They
cut the FRAME, removed the offending bike, and left the Krytonite secured to
the pole!! ...one way to defeat a lock.

Boy, I'd be [censored] if someone destroyed my bike because it was
illegally parked. I don't think city workers would casually
destroy an illegally parked car, and I don't think they should do
the same to a bike either.
--
Ben Pfaff
email: [email hidden]
web: http://benpfaff.org

Ben Pfaff said:

skuke said:

In Daly City, CA over the weekend. A city street was marked with many No
Parking signs for construction about to begin on the said street. Cars etc.
where to be towed away if parked during construction period. A bike was
"Krytonite-d" to a street sign. The city workers needed to remove the bike
as it was illegally "parked" and in the way. My friend witnessed them
removing the bike from the street sign. How did they do it you asked? They
cut the FRAME, removed the offending bike, and left the Krytonite secured to
the pole!! ...one way to defeat a lock.

Boy, I'd be [censored] if someone destroyed my bike because it was
illegally parked. I don't think city workers would casually
destroy an illegally parked car, and I don't think they should do
the same to a bike either.

FWIW, my friend did say that it was a crappy "city" bike. However, I
understand that is not the point and I'm not defending what was done. I too
disagree with the worker's action.

When told the story, I remembered the opening scene of the movie Backdraft.
There was an expensive car parked in from of a fire hydrant and the
firefighters needed access to it for their hose line. They smashed the
driver and pasenger windows then passed the hose through the car to be
connected to the fire hydrant.
--
Skuke
Reverse the domain name to send email

In article <[email hidden]>,

skuke said:

When told the story, I remembered the opening scene of the movie Backdraft.
There was an expensive car parked in from of a fire hydrant and the
firefighters needed access to it for their hose line. They smashed the
driver and pasenger windows then passed the hose through the car to be
connected to the fire hydrant.

When I watched that I thought to myself: "Wouldn't it be faster to
just go over the car?" They were in a hurry, right?

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net

On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 14:36:10 -0700, Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

skuke said:

In Daly City, CA over the weekend. A city street was marked with many No
Parking signs for construction about to begin on the said street. Cars etc.
where to be towed away if parked during construction period. A bike was
"Krytonite-d" to a street sign. The city workers needed to remove the bike
as it was illegally "parked" and in the way. My friend witnessed them
removing the bike from the street sign. How did they do it you asked? They
cut the FRAME, removed the offending bike, and left the Krytonite secured to
the pole!! ...one way to defeat a lock.

Boy, I'd be [censored] if someone destroyed my bike because it was
illegally parked. I don't think city workers would casually
destroy an illegally parked car, and I don't think they should do
the same to a bike either.

I'm new to bike commuting, having started seriously during May, using
some crappy cable locks. 25 miles roundtrip from Queens to Manhattan.
May is Bike Month in New York City and there was a bike show at the
Armory, where I bought my first real chain and lock, a Master. A good
buy for $50. For the next three weeks I left the lock locked to a
streetlamp in front of my job, using it during the day. That is legal
in NYC. One day I had not brought the bike for some reason, but as I
walked out of the building I glanced at the lampost and saw that the
lock was gone. As was the lampost. All that was left was the base
which rises about two feet from the sidewalk and has four big bolts
where the rest of the lampost screws in.

I checked with the local precinct. They had no idea what happened but
did get a giggle out of it. Then I spoke to the building super, who
told me that a contractor had removed the lampost during the night
because it had a dent in it and would replace it with another.

So I called the City. Tracked down the contractor. Got a call back
that the guys had left it "locked" to a nearby bike rack. Say what? If
there was a bike rack that's where the bike would have been.

They just threw it away or took it. I did check the local cans but
there was no big heavy chain in any of them.

Still, I do get to tell the story of how someone removed a lamppost
just to get my lock.

True story.

skuke said:

Ben Pfaff said:

skuke said:

In Daly City, CA over the weekend. A city street was marked with many No
Parking signs for construction about to begin on the said street. Cars etc.
where to be towed away if parked during construction period. A bike was
"Krytonite-d" to a street sign. The city workers needed to remove the bike
as it was illegally "parked" and in the way. My friend witnessed them
removing the bike from the street sign. How did they do it you asked? They
cut the FRAME, removed the offending bike, and left the Krytonite secured to
the pole!! ...one way to defeat a lock.

Boy, I'd be [censored] if someone destroyed my bike because it was
illegally parked. I don't think city workers would casually
destroy an illegally parked car, and I don't think they should do
the same to a bike either.

When told the story, I remembered the opening scene of the movie Backdraft.
There was an expensive car parked in from of a fire hydrant and the
firefighters needed access to it for their hose line. They smashed the
driver and pasenger windows then passed the hose through the car to be
connected to the fire hydrant.

That might be reasonable in an emergency. But if there's time to
ticket and tow cars, then there's time to properly remove a bike
lock in a reasonable fashion. It's not an emergency situation in
any sense at all.
--
Ben Pfaff
email: [email hidden]
web: http://benpfaff.org

"dgk" <[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) Got a call
back that the guys had left it "locked" to a nearby bike rack.(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Aside from the fact that there was no nearby bike rack, I wonder how you
would do that? This was a loop of chain closed with a padlock. I suppose
they could cut the bike rack, slip the chain into place, and then reweld the
bike rack. Sure. That would be easy. I'll bet that is what they did.

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:22:24 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've been wondering about this for awhile. Chain and wire cable can be cut
easily with either bolt/cable cutters or cordless grinders. But what about
cable wound from both wire and kevlar? A bolt cutter would have a tough time
because the kevlar strands would crush but not sever. Grinding would be
difficult for the same reason, and because the cable would be too flexible. It
could be cut for sure, but it would take longer, and maybe require stopping a
few times to hack away with another tool, like a knife. Any ideas? Has this
already been tried?

An all-saw does not even notice Kevlar when it's securely embedded or
immobilized; it goes right through. Lock cutters, if they're sharp,
shear it easily. Kevlar's greatest strength is in it's tensile
properties and flexibility, not its resistance to cutting. Yes, it's
*harder* to cut than most fibers, but it's not particularly
*difficult*.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:44:21 -0700, Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

That might be reasonable in an emergency. But if there's time to
ticket and tow cars, then there's time to properly remove a bike
lock in a reasonable fashion. It's not an emergency situation in
any sense at all.

Unbolt the sign (two fasteners, probably no special tools required)
and slip the bike off over the top of the pole. Toss aside.

Something tells me that they did it intentionally to cause the most
damage.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

B.B. said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

skuke said:

When told the story, I remembered the opening scene of the movie Backdraft.
There was an expensive car parked in from of a fire hydrant and the
firefighters needed access to it for their hose line. They smashed the
driver and pasenger windows then passed the hose through the car to be
connected to the fire hydrant.

When I watched that I thought to myself: "Wouldn't it be faster to
just go over the car?" They were in a hurry, right?

Fire hose comes in two varieties, one of which doesn't flex very much,
and neither flows well with sharp bends. For the first connect to a
hydrant, it's not unusual to use the stiff hose. I've seen a photo of
a car with the windows broken out to pass such stiff hose through in
order to get a connect to a high-pressure pumper feeding an aerial
boom nozzle. The car was towed after the hose was disconnected,
despite the enraged owner's objections. It wasn't a Bimmer; I think
it was a GM sled.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Fire hose comes in two varieties, one of which doesn't flex very
much, and neither flows well with sharp bends. For the first
connect to a hydrant, it's not unusual to use the stiff hose.
I've seen a photo of a car with the windows broken out to pass
such stiff hose through in order to get a connect to a
high-pressure pumper feeding an aerial boom nozzle. The car was
towed after the hose was disconnected, despite the enraged owner's
objections. It wasn't a Bimmer; I think it was a GM sled.

A local TV reporter covering a fire parked in front of a hydrant and
locked the keys in the car. Naturally, a firefighter with an ax was
more than happy to open the car for him.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: [email hidden])

Werehatrack <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:44:21 -0700, Ben Pfaff <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

That might be reasonable in an emergency. But if there's time to
ticket and tow cars, then there's time to properly remove a bike
lock in a reasonable fashion. It's not an emergency situation in
any sense at all.

Unbolt the sign (two fasteners, probably no special tools required)
and slip the bike off over the top of the pole. Toss aside.

Something tells me that they did it intentionally to cause the most
damage.

Dear Werehatrack,

This week's New Yorker shows the dark underside of
your pro-bike position:

http://tinyurl.com/3qdlt

or

http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?mscssid=J9USGU0VKS298PGC6X9S4E1VSDJVEP74&sitetype=1&did=4&sid=119411&whichpage=1&sortBy=popular&keyword=someone+stole&section=cartoons

Of course, locking a bike to a cactus might
be bad for the tires.

Carl Fogel

"Ray Heindl" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A local TV reporter covering a fire parked in front of a hydrant and
locked the keys in the car. Naturally, a firefighter with an ax was
more than happy to open the car for him.

I happened upon a new, locked, smoke-filled, Mercedes sedan just as the
Boston Fire Dept. arrived. Man, they tore that car to bits, and seemed to
enjoy it thoroughly.

Quoted message said:

This week's New Yorker shows the dark underside of
your pro-bike position:

http://tinyurl.com/3qdlt

or

http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?mscssid=J9USGU0VKS298PGC6X9S4E1VSDJVEP74&sitetype=1&did=4&sid=119411&whichpage=1&sortBy=popular&keyword=someone+stole&section=cartoons

It also shows the dark underside of New Yorker marketing:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Deluxe Framed Print (25" x 31"😉 - $350.00

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:52:17 -0700, LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0

m said:

Quoted message said:

This week's New Yorker shows the dark underside of
your pro-bike position:

http://tinyurl.com/3qdlt

or

http://www.cartoonbank.com/product_details.asp?mscssid=J9USGU0VKS298PGC6X9S4E1VSDJVEP74&sitetype=1&did=4&sid=119411&whichpage=1&sortBy=popular&keyword=someone+stole&section=cartoons

It also shows the dark underside of New Yorker marketing:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Deluxe Framed Print (25" x 31"😉 - $350.00

Yeah, I was thinking that I want way too little for my photographs.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------

Werehatrack said:

On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:22:24 -0400, "Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I've been wondering about this for awhile. Chain and wire cable can be cut
easily with either bolt/cable cutters or cordless grinders. But what about
cable wound from both wire and kevlar? A bolt cutter would have a tough time
because the kevlar strands would crush but not sever. Grinding would be
difficult for the same reason, and because the cable would be too flexible. It
could be cut for sure, but it would take longer, and maybe require stopping a
few times to hack away with another tool, like a knife. Any ideas? Has this
already been tried?

An all-saw does not even notice Kevlar when it's securely embedded or
immobilized; it goes right through. Lock cutters, if they're sharp,
shear it easily. Kevlar's greatest strength is in it's tensile
properties and flexibility, not its resistance to cutting. Yes, it's
*harder* to cut than most fibers, but it's not particularly
*difficult*.

When I was in Japan, my friend's Shimano bike had integral locks. One
was a head lock which does the same thing on my scooter accomplishes.

Michael J. Klein [email hidden]
Dasi Jen, Taoyuan Hsien, Taiwan, ROC
Please replace mousepotato with asiancastings
---------------------------------------------