Looking for help since the gym apparently lies!

M.E. said:

Hello,

I joined a gym (Premier Fitness) about 3 months ago looking to increase
muscle mass and decrease body fat... I am 180lbs (was then too) and had 19%
body fat... I went in today for another fitness evaluation and my body fat
is now 23%.

How about a little common sense here. Either they were wrong about
their initial body fat percentage or they're wrong about your current
one or you're just eating too much.

Which is it? How are your jeans fitting? Is your waist slimming down?
Typical back-up methods include using a tape measure to track
measurements and/or taking periodic photographs wearing the same outfit.

You tell us: which is it: are you getting fatter or leaner?

Quoted message said:

I have been going about 3 - 4 times a week and working off of a
routine they told me... now they're telling me it's wrong... I think they're
just after money for me to pay a PT of theirs and I refuse! I'm looking
for some advice... here is what they have had me doing recently...

4 sets of 15 of everything:

Leg Press
Ham Curls
Leg Extensions
Biceps
Lat Pull Down
Incline Bench Press
Seated Row
Shoulder Press
Tricep's (Pull down with a 2 handled rope not sure of the "technical" term)
Ab's

(All of this stuff is on machines)

and then 20-40 minutes of Cardio (Treadmill or Elyptical) each workout.

So you're working out for an hour every other day? Sounds like it won't
hurt you.

Quoted message said:

They also told me to cut my protein shakes cause they were high in carbs and
now they're telling me to take them...

It sounds to me like you ought to be paying a whole lot more attention
to what's going in your mouth. You need to eat less calories since your
goal is to cut fat rather than build muscle. Protein shakes are useful
in your calorie budget because they can make you feel sated on
relatively few calories, but I'd use the "lite" version and mix it with
coffee or skim milk. You're not trying to bulk here.

How long have you been training? You might get some "newbie" gains
where you get to build muscle AND lose fat at the same time. It sounds
like you are new to this, so you might get that one-time gift from the
gods. Don't squander it, and don't take it for granted.

Quoted message said:

I have a physical test for a police
dept coming up in 2 months and require 19% or less body fat and they've now
sent me in the total opposite direction... I'm looking for help to get back
on track here... The physical test I have coming up requires Chin's and Dips
so I don't want to increase my body weight too much more so just convert
this fat they've cursed me with with muscle.

Please try to figure out who exactly cursed you with that fat. It's
important that you figure this out.

Personally, if my career choice depended on my body fat percentage then
I'd pay for the DEXA scan at the hospital's x-ray department.

Delenn

First Mike, you are a lardass, and always will be. As for your
aspirations to be a law enforcement pig, I hope you [censored], you power
hungry masochist.

oink oink

"M.E." <mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I joined a gym (Premier Fitness) about 3 months ago looking to increase
muscle mass and decrease body fat... I am 180lbs (was then too) and had

19%

Quoted message said:

body fat... I went in today for another fitness evaluation and my body fat
is now 23%. I have been going about 3 - 4 times a week and working off of

a

Quoted message said:

routine they told me... now they're telling me it's wrong... I think

they're

Quoted message said:

just after money for me to pay a PT of theirs and I refuse! I'm looking
for some advice... here is what they have had me doing recently...

How did the gym test your body fat?

FWIW, there are various tests, but all are estimates, and all are subject to
measurement errors. If you've been exercising regularly, and your weight
has not changed in 3 months, it seems very unlikely that your body fat went
up. However, the initial estimate of 19% may have been too low.

You may find it useful to test yourself using the "Navy" method. It only
requires a couple of simple body circumference measurements, and is
reasonably accurate for most adults. You can find an online version of this
test here:

http://www.he.net/%7Ezone/prothd2.html

GG
http://www.WeightWare.com
Your Weight and Health Diary

Quoted message said:

4 sets of 15 of everything:

Leg Press
Ham Curls
Leg Extensions
Biceps
Lat Pull Down
Incline Bench Press
Seated Row
Shoulder Press
Tricep's (Pull down with a 2 handled rope not sure of the "technical"

term)

Quoted message said:

Ab's

(All of this stuff is on machines)

and then 20-40 minutes of Cardio (Treadmill or Elyptical) each workout.

They also told me to cut my protein shakes cause they were high in carbs

and

Quoted message said:

now they're telling me to take them... I have a physical test for a police
dept coming up in 2 months and require 19% or less body fat and they've

now

Quoted message said:

sent me in the total opposite direction... I'm looking for help to get

back

Quoted message said:

on track here... The physical test I have coming up requires Chin's and

Dips

Quoted message said:

so I don't want to increase my body weight too much more so just convert
this fat they've cursed me with with muscle.

Thanks in advance!

Mike

In article <[email hidden]>,

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

Hello,

I joined a gym (Premier Fitness) about 3 months ago looking to increase
muscle mass and decrease body fat... I am 180lbs (was then too) and had 19%
body fat... I went in today for another fitness evaluation and my body fat
is now 23%. I have been going about 3 - 4 times a week and working off of a
routine they told me... now they're telling me it's wrong... I think they're
just after money for me to pay a PT of theirs and I refuse! I'm looking
for some advice... here is what they have had me doing recently...

4 sets of 15 of everything:

Leg Press
Ham Curls
Leg Extensions
Biceps
Lat Pull Down
Incline Bench Press
Seated Row
Shoulder Press
Tricep's (Pull down with a 2 handled rope not sure of the "technical" term)
Ab's

(All of this stuff is on machines)

and then 20-40 minutes of Cardio (Treadmill or Elyptical) each workout.

They also told me to cut my protein shakes cause they were high in carbs and
now they're telling me to take them... I have a physical test for a police
dept coming up in 2 months and require 19% or less body fat and they've now
sent me in the total opposite direction... I'm looking for help to get back
on track here... The physical test I have coming up requires Chin's and Dips
so I don't want to increase my body weight too much more so just convert
this fat they've cursed me with with muscle.

Thanks in advance!

Mike

What else are you eating?
What is the rest of your diet like?

Your routine is only half of the equation. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"M.E." <mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello,

I joined a gym (Premier Fitness) about 3 months ago looking to increase
muscle mass and decrease body fat... I am 180lbs (was then too) and had
19% body fat... I went in today for another fitness evaluation and my body
fat is now 23%. I have been going about 3 - 4 times a week and working
off of a routine they told me... now they're telling me it's wrong... I
think they're just after money for me to pay a PT of theirs and I refuse!
I'm looking for some advice... here is what they have had me doing
recently...

I don't know if you go to the same chain of Premier Fitness that I go to
(Ohio) but if so I wouldn't trust what there minimum wage staff says.

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars, apples, bananas, hard boiled
eggs and that kinda stuff for snacks, pizza, sandwiches, raw veggies for
lunches, chicken, beef, that kinda stuff with vegitables for dinners... I
usually pick at snacks and food throughout the day at work but not large
amounts and it's all healthy... I have just started back on protein shakes
and higher protein (from what I'm being told about 125+ grams / day...

See if this adds any insight... thanks for the responses.

Mike

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

Hello,

I joined a gym (Premier Fitness) about 3 months ago looking to increase
muscle mass and decrease body fat... I am 180lbs (was then too) and had
19%
body fat... I went in today for another fitness evaluation and my body
fat
is now 23%. I have been going about 3 - 4 times a week and working off
of a
routine they told me... now they're telling me it's wrong... I think
they're
just after money for me to pay a PT of theirs and I refuse! I'm looking
for some advice... here is what they have had me doing recently...

4 sets of 15 of everything:

Leg Press
Ham Curls
Leg Extensions
Biceps
Lat Pull Down
Incline Bench Press
Seated Row
Shoulder Press
Tricep's (Pull down with a 2 handled rope not sure of the "technical"
term)
Ab's

(All of this stuff is on machines)

and then 20-40 minutes of Cardio (Treadmill or Elyptical) each workout.

They also told me to cut my protein shakes cause they were high in carbs
and
now they're telling me to take them... I have a physical test for a
police
dept coming up in 2 months and require 19% or less body fat and they've
now
sent me in the total opposite direction... I'm looking for help to get
back
on track here... The physical test I have coming up requires Chin's and
Dips
so I don't want to increase my body weight too much more so just convert
this fat they've cursed me with with muscle.

Thanks in advance!

Mike

What else are you eating?
What is the rest of your diet like?

Your routine is only half of the equation. ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack
Nicholson

WOW! You were one of those special kids in your childhood weren't you?
Something tells me not to be surprised if I run into you in my future career
goals...

Good luck in life.. you seem to need it...

"Scorn B Woe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First Mike, you are a lardass, and always will be. As for your
aspirations to be a law enforcement pig, I hope you [censored], you power
hungry masochist.

In article <[email hidden]>,

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars,

Granola bars are not necessarily, or even usually, IIRC, "healthy."
They're frequently *loaded* with fat and sugar. Depends on what
kind of granola bars.

Quoted message said:

apples, bananas, hard boiled
eggs

Hard-boiled eggs... How many per day? How *many* apples, bananas...

Quoted message said:

and that kinda stuff for snacks,

....and that kinda stuff? How *many* times/day?

Quoted message said:

pizza, sandwiches,

Pizza can be varying degrees of "evil." How much pizza? How often?
What's on it?

What's in those sandwiches? How much do you eat? How often?

Quoted message said:

raw veggies for
lunches, chicken, beef, that kinda stuff

Skinless chicken? How prepared? Lean beef? How prepared? How
much?

You drink no soda-pop? No sugar-water-masquerading-as-juice? No
milk? No coffee or tea with cream and/or sugar? No beer or other
spirits?

Quoted message said:

with vegitables for dinners...

What, no starches (rice, potatos)? Are you not eating these or
have you simply neglected to mention them?

Quoted message said:

I
usually pick at snacks and food throughout the day at work but not large
amounts and it's all healthy...

[snip]

Define "healthy."

Look, Mike, it's a simple equation: If you take in more calories than
you burn, you will gain weight. From a strict calorie
consumption/burning perspective: It almost doesn't matter what form
they take--calories are calories. It doesn't matter whether the
stuff is "healthy" or not: You can get just as fat on "healthy" food
as you can on the less-healthy variety.

Where that weight gain will go is going to be dependent, to a large
degree, on your level of fitness and your lifestyle. If your level
of fitness is low and your lifestyle sedentary, it will simply go
into fat stores. At the other end of the spectrum: If your level of
fitness is high and your lifestyle exceedingly active, more of it
will go into building lean body mass.

Besides what I noted above, I'd ask the same questions Delenn did:
Have you become more/less trim? Do your clothes fit/hang
differently? Have you gained/lost weight (over-all)? Have you
larger/stronger muscles than you did?

From what you've said, I harbour the same suspicion as the others: I
suspect you're eating more than you're burning. I suspect much of
what you're eating isn't as "healthy" as you think it is. I also
suspect you misunderstand what "healthy" means.

--
Jim Seymour | "It is wrong always, everywhere and
WARNING: The "From:" address is a | for everyone to believe anything upon
spam trap. DON'T USE IT! Use: | insufficient evidence."
[email hidden] | - W. K. Clifford, ca. 1876

Runs With Knives said:

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars,

Granola bars are not necessarily, or even usually, IIRC, "healthy."
They're frequently *loaded* with fat and sugar. Depends on what
kind of granola bars.

But, dude, they're like, natural, so they *gotta* be healthy!

In article <[email hidden]>,

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars, apples, bananas, hard boiled
eggs and that kinda stuff for snacks, pizza, sandwiches, raw veggies for
lunches, chicken, beef, that kinda stuff with vegitables for dinners... I
usually pick at snacks and food throughout the day at work but not large
amounts and it's all healthy... I have just started back on protein shakes
and higher protein (from what I'm being told about 125+ grams / day...

See if this adds any insight... thanks for the responses.

Mike

Uh, I think we all see the problem here. ;-)

Ever studied sports nutrition???

Do you count calories?

Often it's not how much you eat, but how much of WHAT you eat.
It's easier to over-indulge than you might think.

Some of that stuff is good for weight loss, other stuff (like pizza)
needs to be taken off of your snack list!

Cut back on the fruit a bit too and only eat it in the morning.

If you use protien shakes, read the labels. Some are lower in carbs than
others.

Oh, and try keeping a food log for awhile! It's very educational and
keeps you honest. Best thing I ever did for myself.

I weighed/measured everything I ate and wrote it down. At the end of the
day, I added up total calories, grams of protien, carbs and fat, and
milligrams of sodium since I needed to go low salt. I then calculated
the percentages of each of the macronutrients.

Pick up a good set of food tables and learn!
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

Delenn said:

Personally, if my career choice depended on my body fat
percentage then I'd pay for the DEXA scan at the
hospital's x-ray department.

Or find someplace that does hydrostatic testing which is also one of
the more reliable ways to test bodyfat percentage.
http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/7876.html

If my job depended on my bodyfat percentage or weight I would be doing
WAY more than three to four days of exercise. I mean how bad do you
want it or to keep your job?
I would increase the cardio to at least an hour a day, keep the weights
to the current split, and add in as much recreational cardio (walking
the dog, biking, swimming, sports, etc)as possible to create a
CONSISTANT caloric deficit.

joni

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Pick up a good set of food tables and learn!

Or use a free online program like http://www.fitday.com
It will give you the nutritional breakdown from the foods you log into
it and may open the OP eyes to how much he really is eating per day.

joni

In article <[email hidden]>,

joni said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

Pick up a good set of food tables and learn!

Or use a free online program like http://www.fitday.com
It will give you the nutritional breakdown from the foods you log into
it and may open the OP eyes to how much he really is eating per day.

joni

I'll have to check that site out, thanks!
I did it the hard way using the tables in "The Nutrition Almanac".

I logged for several months.
Probably one of the best and most educational things I ever did for
myself.

It's pretty amazing....... ;-)
--
Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

JMW said:

Runs With Knives said:

M.E.' mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars,

Granola bars are not necessarily, or even usually, IIRC, "healthy."
They're frequently *loaded* with fat and sugar. Depends on what
kind of granola bars.

But, dude, they're like, natural, so they *gotta* be healthy!

Haven't you heard yet that most people die of natural causes?

Seth
--
When I'm telling you to get a life, it's time to consider suicide very
seriously. -- Lyle McDonald

M.E. mebert(remove)@(me)nas.net said:

As for diet,

My diet consists of things like Granola bars, apples, bananas, hard boiled
eggs and that kinda stuff for snacks, pizza, sandwiches, raw veggies for
lunches, chicken, beef, that kinda stuff with vegitables for dinners... I
usually pick at snacks and food throughout the day at work but not large
amounts and it's all healthy... I have just started back on protein shakes
and higher protein (from what I'm being told about 125+ grams / day...

Lose the pizza. Not enough protein, too many calories from grease.

Go with lean protein: chicken and turkey breast, skinless;
fish with the fat trimmed off (salmon is fatty all the
way through; trout has a ribbon of fat at the spine),
and beef only if it's 93% fat-free ground beef, or some
sort of round steak. Some pork is okay, but it's hard to
see the fat content in it. You can get low-fat ham.

Eat lean protein, starchy carbs, and fibrous carbs.

Split your eating up into 5 or more meals a day; avoiding
insulin peaks will keep you from storing fat.

Avoid any combination of sugars and fats; avoid sugary
stuff entirely if you can. And don't rely on artificial
sweeteners; some of them monkey with your metabolism.

Start tracking your calories carefully. Get down to a
steady 2000-2100/day but don't go any lower or your body
will start hoarding fat.

Stop doing 4 sets of 15 every day and start doing 2 sets
of 5 at your 5-rep-max. Every few weight sessions, throw
in the 4 sets of 15.

The 125+ grams of protein is a minimum; I'd go up to 200.

Protein shakes are fine. You should be eating about the
same number of grams of carbs and protein, so look for
a way to get that in your shake, either in the mix or the
mix plus nonfat milk (which will also bring protein to
the party).

When you do your cardio, don't slack. Do the whole hour
at a pace that has you breathing hard enough you can just
barely hold a conversation.

To get from 23% to 19% you'll need to lose about 7 pounds
of fat, and 2 months is just about right to get that done.

--Blair
"Now go play."

Andrzej Rosa said:

Dnia 2005-05-03 M.E. napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

on track here... The physical test I have coming up requires Chin's and Dips
so I don't want to increase my body weight too much more so just convert
this fat they've cursed me with with muscle.

If you have to chin and dip more, then chin and dip more. Do it every
day, all day. Buy a chiup bar, if necessary. You can dip between the
backs of two sturdy chairs.

Don't.

Quoted message said:

Do not go to failure. Do not go even close to failure. Just practice
the movement a lot. All the time.

No.

Do your chins and dips every other day, and go to failure each time;
but strive to make failure at least a portion of a PERFECT REP farther
than last time.

Do them legally, and give yourself time to recover.

--Blair
"It's a wonder some people can walk."

Listen to the nutritional advice a couple of posts above

Whilst individuals reactions to food, metabolism, ability to loose fat
etc vary a great dealt there still has to be a net calorie deficit to
spark fat loss.

Make cals used>cals consumed.

DIET
* Plenty of lean flesh (eg beef topside, chick breast, pork eye fillet,
fish),
* loads of veg,
* some fruit (avoid high carb ones like bananas),
* easy on the starch food (pot.'s rice etc) keep them until the few
hours after exercise, eat oats in the morning.
* Eat fruit and carb containg veg (carrots etc) in the AM, high fiber
veg (broc., spinach, peppers)in the PM.
* a few nuts and seeds are a good thing but GO EASY (walnuts, almonds,
pine nuts - note: peanuts are not so good.)
* Take 3-6 1000mg fish oil caps a day

TRANING
* Get you GPP (baseline fitness) sorted,
* lift weights to get stronger and do cardio (and eat) to lose fat -
don't try and do high rep weights to 'burn' the fat off.
* Practice the skills that are going to get you past the test.
* keep traing quality as high as you can and try not to over train
* stretch regularly through the day.

GO HERE:

www.crossfit.com

Without knowing you level of GPP and also any injuries you may have I
can't rec. you following it BUT look at what they do in this site. Many
law enforcement people use.

Good luck.

Drew

(Nutritionist, ASCM qual. personal trainer)

Listen to the nutritional advice a couple of posts above

Whilst individuals reactions to food, metabolism, ability to loose fat
etc vary a great dealt there still has to be a net calorie deficit to
spark fat loss.

Make cals used>cals consumed.

DIET
* Plenty of lean flesh (eg beef topside, chick breast, pork eye fillet,
fish),
* loads of veg,
* some fruit (avoid high carb ones like bananas),
* easy on the starch food (pot.'s rice etc) keep them until the few
hours after exercise, eat oats in the morning.
* Eat fruit and carb containg veg (carrots etc) in the AM, high fiber
veg (broc., spinach, peppers)in the PM.
* a few nuts and seeds are a good thing but GO EASY (walnuts, almonds,
pine nuts - note: peanuts are not so good.)
* Take 3-6 1000mg fish oil caps a day

TRANING
* Get you GPP (baseline fitness) sorted,
* lift weights to get stronger and do cardio (and eat) to lose fat -
don't try and do high rep weights to 'burn' the fat off.
* Practice the skills that are going to get you past the test.
* keep traing quality as high as you can and try not to over train
* stretch regularly through the day.

GO HERE:

www.crossfit.com

Without knowing you level of GPP and also any injuries you may have I
can't rec. you following it BUT look at what they do in this site. Many
law enforcement people use.

Good luck.

Drew

(Nutritionist, ASCM qual. personal trainer)