Lorries

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in London
between January 1999 and 2004 – the majority (85 per cent) were women. A
spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for cyclists. But at the
same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers of cycling too close to
heavy lorries.""

How strange that such a high proportion should be women.

I suppose it is a rather small sample so it may just be a statistical anomaly.

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in London
between January 1999 and 2004 - the majority (85 per cent) were women. A
spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for cyclists. But at the
same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers of cycling too close to
heavy lorries.""

I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake lorries
near junctions is the message.

It doesn't matter too much whether the lorry is turning left or right.
Indeed, a right-turning lorry can be more dangerous as the trailer will
swing out towards the left and rather too many road users remain
blissfully ignorant of this.

As a general rule, keep well away from lorries.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

"Noel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in London
between January 1999 and 2004 - the majority (85 per cent) were women. A
spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for cyclists. But at the
same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers of cycling too close to
heavy lorries.""

I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake lorries
near junctions is the message.

There's also the problem of lorries overtaking cyclists and doing this, so
the cyclist can't hold back.
--
peter

Cheap train tickets database
http://www.petereverett.co.uk/tickets/

Email sent to this address is generally deleted upon arrival
Visit website if you want to contact me

Ziggy said:

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in
London between January 1999 and 2004 – the majority (85 per cent)
were women. A spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for
cyclists. But at the same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers
of cycling too close to heavy lorries.""

How strange that such a high proportion should be women.

I suppose it is a rather small sample so it may just be a statistical
anomaly.

Velorution puts it down to a lack of assertiveness

http://www.velorution.biz/?p=1321

Tom
--
Return address is dead. Real address is at
http://www.happy-penguin.info/address.jpg

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:52:33 -0000, "Tom" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ziggy said:

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in
London between January 1999 and 2004 – the majority (85 per cent)
were women. A spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for
cyclists. But at the same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers
of cycling too close to heavy lorries.""

How strange that such a high proportion should be women.

I suppose it is a rather small sample so it may just be a statistical
anomaly.

Velorution puts it down to a lack of assertiveness

http://www.velorution.biz/?p=1321

Frightening and very sad that you can pay for lack of assertiveness with your
life.

Thanks for the link - although it did not make enjoyable reading :-(.

Ekul Namsob said:

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in
London between January 1999 and 2004 - the majority (85 per cent)
were women. A spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for
cyclists. But at the same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers
of cycling too close to heavy lorries.""

I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake
lorries near junctions is the message.

It doesn't matter too much whether the lorry is turning left or right.

Yes it does. The blind spot is on the opposite side to the driver, so
turning left presents more risks.

Quoted message said:

Indeed, a right-turning lorry can be more dangerous as the trailer
will swing out towards the left

Nope, only the back of the trailer will swing a bit to the left, not much of
a risk for cyclists. It's the back wheels cutting off the corner as it were
which presents the biggest danger to cyclists.

Quoted message said:

As a general rule, keep well away from lorries.

Better to inform cyclists about the blind spots on lorries.

--

Geoff

naked_draughtsman said:

"Noel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in London
between January 1999 and 2004 - the majority (85 per cent) were women. A
spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for cyclists. But at the
same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers of cycling too close to
heavy lorries.""

I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake lorries
near junctions is the message.

There's also the problem of lorries overtaking cyclists and doing this, so
the cyclist can't hold back.

So Velorutions comment on assertiveness could be right on the mark. If
women could stop the lorries overtaking, they may be safer.

(Please don't interpret this as victim-blaming).

GeoffC said:

Ekul Namsob said:

Noel said:

Apologies if this has been posted already:

http://www.thecnj.co.uk/islington/032307/news032307_02.html

"Twenty-one cyclists have been killed in accidents with lorries in
London between January 1999 and 2004 - the majority (85 per cent)
were women. A spokeswoman said: "Lorry drivers must look out for
cyclists. But at the same time cyclists must be aware of the dangers
of cycling too close to heavy lorries.""

I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake
lorries near junctions is the message.

It doesn't matter too much whether the lorry is turning left or right.

Yes it does. The blind spot is on the opposite side to the driver, so
turning left presents more risks.

See below, please, for why I disagree. It's also worth considering that
many HGVs are left-hand drive.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Indeed, a right-turning lorry can be more dangerous as the trailer
will swing out towards the left

Quoted message said:

Nope, only the back of the trailer will swing a bit to the left, not much of
a risk for cyclists.

Well, I don't know about where you live, but the council round here have
a tendency to fence off some corners. I would not like to be caught
between a lorry and a metal fence.

Quoted message said:

It's the back wheels cutting off the corner as it were
which presents the biggest danger to cyclists.

It's certainly one of the dangers. I would continue to recommend keeping
well out of the way.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush

Ekul Namsob said:

GeoffC said:

Quoted message said:

> I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
> pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake
> lorries near junctions is the message.

It doesn't matter too much whether the lorry is turning left or
right.

Yes it does. The blind spot is on the opposite side to the driver, so
turning left presents more risks.

See below, please, for why I disagree. It's also worth considering
that many HGVs are left-hand drive.

That is why I said "opposite side to the driver".

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Indeed, a right-turning lorry can be more dangerous as the trailer
will swing out towards the left

Quoted message said:

Nope, only the back of the trailer will swing a bit to the left, not
much of a risk for cyclists.

Well, I don't know about where you live, but the council round here
have a tendency to fence off some corners. I would not like to be
caught between a lorry and a metal fence.

It just does not happen like that. If the junction is big enough for fences
then the lorry will be positioned to the right nowhere near any fence. Being
run over by the wheels is the big danger.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's the back wheels cutting off the corner as it were
which presents the biggest danger to cyclists.

It's certainly one of the dangers. I would continue to recommend
keeping well out of the way.

You can't just avoid lorries, where would you recommend cyclists to take up
position wrt lorries then?
Since the introduction of the mandatory extra DOBLI mirror on lorries in
Holland in 2003, these sort of fatalities have been reduced by 50%.
http://www.dobli.com/talen/english.html

--

Geoff

"GeoffC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You can't just avoid lorries, where would you recommend cyclists to take
up position wrt lorries then?

If they are turning then stay behind whilst they complete their manoevre.

Adam Lea said:

"GeoffC" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You can't just avoid lorries, where would you recommend cyclists to
take up position wrt lorries then?

If they are turning then stay behind whilst they complete their
manoevre.

That would work but I doubt you would be able to get many people to follow
that advice, most are in too much of a hurry.

--

Geoff

GeoffC said:

Ekul Namsob said:

GeoffC said:

>> I think the cyclist gets crushed between the left-turning lorry and
>> pedestrian railings or parked cars etc. Nasty. Don't undertake
>> lorries near junctions is the message.
>
> It doesn't matter too much whether the lorry is turning left or
> right.

Yes it does. The blind spot is on the opposite side to the driver, so
turning left presents more risks.

See below, please, for why I disagree. It's also worth considering
that many HGVs are left-hand drive.

That is why I said "opposite side to the driver".

Please reread what you wrote directly after that: 'so turning left
presents more risks.'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Indeed, a right-turning lorry can be more dangerous as the trailer
> will swing out towards the left

Quoted message said:

Nope, only the back of the trailer will swing a bit to the left, not
much of a risk for cyclists.

Well, I don't know about where you live, but the council round here
have a tendency to fence off some corners. I would not like to be
caught between a lorry and a metal fence.

It just does not happen like that. If the junction is big enough for fences
then the lorry will be positioned to the right nowhere near any fence.

Will it? That has certainly not always been my experience. Indeed, some
relatively minor roads have fenced junctions round here. There's a
particularly bad example near Ribble Cycles and the rear of lorries can
still swing out towards other road users, wherever the lorry may be
positioned.

Quoted message said:

Being run over by the wheels is the big danger.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's the back wheels cutting off the corner as it were
which presents the biggest danger to cyclists.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It's certainly one of the dangers. I would continue to recommend
keeping well out of the way.

Quoted message said:

You can't just avoid lorries, where would you recommend cyclists to take up
position wrt lorries then?

At any junction, it is prudent for other vehicles to take up a position
away from lorries: either behind or well to one side.

Quoted message said:

Since the introduction of the mandatory extra DOBLI mirror on lorries in
Holland in 2003, these sort of fatalities have been reduced by 50%.
http://www.dobli.com/talen/english.html

Which is great.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Lincoln City 0-2 Southend United (AET)
Swansea City 2-2 Southend United
We went up twice with Tilly and Brush