Low carb diet for a T1???

In article <[email hidden]>,

(karen.g) said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no because of the ketone issue....

thoughts?

That's kind of a hot-button topic around here...

You might have a look at Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution (this is a book that you ought to be able
to find at your public library or order online from the usual sources). Dr Bernstein is himself a
T1. Many of the T1s here think his program is totally unrealistic. If you think that it *might* be
for you, be aware that you're going to have to work closely with your doctor with regard to insulin
dosing and schedules, in order to avoid hypos.

--
AF "Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team." --artyw raises the bar on
rec.sport.baseball

13 Jan 2004 17:22:13 -0800 said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no

assuming by "Low carb" (in the thread title) you mean *real* low carb, it's NOT impossible

but t1's should be very careful of doing a real low carb diet for at least the 1st year of doing it

fwiw, alice farber's (a t2) response was excellent. it's also worth noting that low carb diets is
one of the main battle areas in this n/g for t2 posting

Quoted message said:

because of the ketone issue....

thoughts?

karen

why do you want to do low carb?

are *you* a t1? if yes, for how long? oh never mind on that question, but i am still interested in
why low carb. from another thread i see: <">> T1 for 24 yrs, suffering from Diabetic Retinopathy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

karen">

are your kidneys still ok?

bill t1 since '57

karen.g wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no because of the ketone

issue....

Quoted message said:

thoughts?

karen

The "Ketone" issue is actually:

"The simultaneous presence of high bG (over 200 mg/dL) AND ketones"

That **and** is very important. AFAIK, there is nothing wrong, or dangerous, or "predictive-of-
disaster" if a T1 has ketones but not high bG.

In fact, AFAIK, "ketones" are not dangerous, they are just markers for another problem which occurs
if you also have both high bG and a serious shortage of insulin. That's why they fuss over it for
T1, the serious lack of insulin is also a key component.

Bernstein favors low carb for T1. The simplified argument he gives is unconvincing (he "offers"
an engineering/mathematical argument which on the face of it seems incomplete. . .to this
engineer at least).

However, IIRC that is the only part of Bernstein's book which I could question, and I disagree with
his overly-simplified justification for low carb, not necessarily with his conclusion.

(Just because he offers an unconvincing argument doesn't mean that he used a weak argument to come
to his conclusion. He could just be overly-simplifying the subject to avoid taxing our weak minds)

I think the guy is a horse's A** but the therapies he was promoting years ago are consistent with
the best and latest thinking as far as I can see.

Regards
Old Al

(karen.g) said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no because of the ketone issue....

thoughts?

karen

That depends on what you call low carb. There really is no set definition of what is and is not a
low carb diet. But type ones can and do eat lower carb diets than many dieticians used to suggest
without any problems. Low carb does not have to mean extreme low carb.

Mack Type 1 since 1975 alt-support-diabetes.orgalt-support-diabetes.orgOpen ↗ insulin-pumpers.orginsulin-pumpers.orgOpen ↗

In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a
world filled with strife and terrorism.

I'm not really sure I want to low carb, but if I thought it would work I may try it. I guess the old
obvious answer is to check with my doctor. It was more out of curiousity than for myself.

my Kidneys are ok so far but my doctor was talking about putting me on medication for prevention of
damage. I just had a baby, so it kind of wreaked a little havoc on my body. I'm only 26 yrs old.

I would try anything that would help, if I thought low carbbing would, then I would 🙂

karen

willbill <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

13 Jan 2004 17:22:13 -0800 said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no

assuming by "Low carb" (in the thread title) you mean *real* low carb, it's NOT impossible

but t1's should be very careful of doing a real low carb diet for at least the 1st year of
doing it

fwiw, alice farber's (a t2) response was excellent. it's also worth noting that low carb diets is
one of the main battle areas in this n/g for t2 posting

Quoted message said:

because of the ketone issue....

thoughts?

karen

why do you want to do low carb?

are *you* a t1? if yes, for how long? oh never mind on that question, but i am still interested in
why low carb. from another thread i see: <">> T1 for 24 yrs, suffering from Diabetic Retinopathy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

karen">

are your kidneys still ok?

bill t1 since '57

(karen.g) said:

I'm not really sure I want to low carb, but if I thought it would work I may try it. I guess the
old obvious answer is to check with my doctor. It was more out of curiousity than for myself.

I'm a T2 (and male, so the only body havoc I have is due to getting older and everything wanting to
"slip downward" or not work as well) but the first book I bought was Dr Bernstein (sp?) which is
listed on my Diabetes page at pacifier.com~jtsmithOpen ↗

I don't always go as low as HE does (he is a T1) but you could at least look at the idea of counting
carbs and adjusting your insulin to match your carb intake... rather than some T1's I know who just
take more and more insulin to match their carbs... and then wonder why they gain weight and have
other problems associated with a high level of glucose and insulin in their body

John Thomas Smith direct2usales.comdirect2usales.comOpen ↗ pacifier.com~jtsmithOpen ↗

Another good reason I would consider lowering carbs!!! Lowering carbs means lowering insulin intake,
and insulin makes you gain weight, so if I could lose alittle weight this way as well, then that
would be great, and the lighter you are, the less insulin you need, so they go hand in hand. hmmm,
I'm definately talking to my doc about this!! karen

John Thomas Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(karen.g) said:

I'm not really sure I want to low carb, but if I thought it would work I may try it. I guess the
old obvious answer is to check with my doctor. It was more out of curiousity than for myself.

I'm a T2 (and male, so the only body havoc I have is due to getting older and everything wanting
to "slip downward" or not work as well) but the first book I bought was Dr Bernstein (sp?) which
is listed on my Diabetes page at pacifier.com~jtsmithOpen ↗

I don't always go as low as HE does (he is a T1) but you could at least look at the idea of
counting carbs and adjusting your insulin to match your carb intake... rather than some T1's I
know who just take more and more insulin to match their carbs... and then wonder why they gain
weight and have other problems associated with a high level of glucose and insulin in their body

John Thomas Smith direct2usales.comdirect2usales.comOpen ↗ pacifier.com~jtsmithOpen ↗

14 Jan 2004 08:55:45 -0800 said:

I'm not really sure I want to low carb, but if I thought it would work I may try it. I guess the
old obvious answer is to check with my doctor. It was more out of curiousity than for myself.

my Kidneys are ok so far but my doctor was talking about putting me on medication for
prevention of damage. I just had a baby, so it kind of wreaked a little havoc on my body. I'm
only 26 yrs old.

I would try anything that would help, if I thought low carbbing would, then I would 🙂

see my response to you in "Re: Anyone a T1 from Canada?"

fwiw, i'm willing to add that doing low carb is ok for t1s, *provided* that they know they are
doing! (which most t1s don't) i'll also add that doing low carb tends to be easier for "most" t2s
than it is for "most" t1s

bill t1 since '57

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 06:51:47 -0500, "oldal4865" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

karen.g wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Anyone know if this is possible? I'm thinking no because of the ketone

issue....

Quoted message said:

thoughts?

karen

The "Ketone" issue is actually:

"The simultaneous presence of high bG (over 200 mg/dL) AND ketones"

That **and** is very important. AFAIK, there is nothing wrong, or dangerous, or "predictive-of-
disaster" if a T1 has ketones but not high bG.

And that could very easily happen when on a low-carb diet, even when blood sugars are absolutely
normal. Ketones in the urine are the goal for many on low-carb diets for weight loss purposes.

Quoted message said:

In fact, AFAIK, "ketones" are not dangerous, they are just markers for another problem which occurs
if you also have both high bG and a serious shortage of insulin. That's why they fuss over it for
T1, the serious lack of insulin is also a key component.

Bernstein favors low carb for T1. The simplified argument he gives is unconvincing (he "offers"
an engineering/mathematical argument which on the face of it seems incomplete. . .to this
engineer at least).

His argument for low-carb makes sense based on certain assumptions, although the numbers he suggests
(6 g at breakfast and 12 g at other meals) are, in my opinion, unrealistically low, especially if
you're already skinny or at a healthy weight you're trying to maintain. At those levels, you'd find
yourself placing severe limits even on nuts, green vegetables, strawberries, artificial sweeteners,
etc - all the things that make life tolerable on a low-carb diet.

Quoted message said:

However, IIRC that is the only part of Bernstein's book which I could question, and I disagree with
his overly-simplified justification for low carb, not necessarily with his conclusion.

The thing that is oversimplified is his application of his principles. His plans would be more
practical if he would at least base his carb intake recommendations on something proportional to
total blood volume, since that is the "tank" in which we are trying to maintain reasonable blood
sugar levels. His plan also fails to address the very real differences in onset and duration of the
fast-acting and regular insulins. In my own experience, the type of pre-meal bolus insulin (regular
or novolog in my case) which gives the best control often depends on what is being eaten.

I think what he has done is basically produce a plan that will work for just about anyone, although
will be far from optimal for many of us, considering differences in lifestyle, age, dietary
preferences, weight, etc. Not all of us with type 1 are trying to lose weight or will always have
easy access to meals with 12g of carbs.

Quoted message said:

(Just because he offers an unconvincing argument doesn't mean that he used a weak argument to come
to his conclusion. He could just be overly-simplifying the subject to avoid taxing our weak minds)

And to cover his ass as well.

Quoted message said:

I think the guy is a horse's A** but the therapies he was promoting years ago are consistent with
the best and latest thinking as far as I can see.

Regards
Old Al