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Low Stimuli Effect?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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25 January 2006
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26 January 2006
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kumar
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  1. "Arndt's law , Arndt-Schulz l. weak stimuli increase physiologic
    activity, moderate stimuli inhibit activity, and very strong stimuli
    abolish activity. See also hormesis.

    hormesis (hor·me·sis) (hor-me´sis) [Gr. hormesis rapid motion] the
    stimulating or beneficial effect of small doses of a toxic substance
    that at higher doses has an inhibitory or adverse effect. "

    Hello,

    The above two laws tells about effects by weak and strong stimuli. I
    have few questions:-

    1. What can be the weak and strong stimuli to body which can cause
    physiologic activities?

    2. Can stimuli be the application of any sensation to five basic
    senses+ thinking including cephalic/phase effects?

    3. Can weak stimuli be the stimulating the whole body or just a part of

    body?

    4. Whether application of stimuli to one part of body will increase
    more physiologic activity or application to whole body?

    5. Whether low diet, fastings, mantras, accupunture, Reiki, homeopathy
    etc. are valid in this sense?

    Pls understand it eg; low diet, fastings, wearing woolen cloths just on
    upper body--may
    cause feeling more cold. Others thought can be
    accupunture/accupressure, reiki, scratching/itching etc...which apply
    stimuli just on one site.

    5. How these laws can be applicable to immune responses?

    Best wishes.

    Reply

    2. Kumar
    Jan 25, 9:10 am show options

    Newsgroups: sci.med.immunology, Sci.med, sci.med.pathology,
    sci.med.cardiology
    From: "Kumar" <[email hidden]> - Find messages by this
    author
    Date: 24 Jan 2006 20:10:31 -0800
    Local: Wed, Jan 25 2006 9:10 am
    Subject: Re: Questions about stimulation of Physiologic activities?
    Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
    original | Remove | Report Abuse

    Reply

  2. Kumar:

    Wouldn't you like to see evidence of someone's "law" before you
    consider it established?

    In any case, cells obviously respond to stimuli, and the amount of
    stimuli is important, just as the kind of stimulation. Also, in the
    short term, "benefits" might be seen, but in the long term, serious
    damage might be done (or something like cancer may result).

    It is more useful to look at work that has actually been done. Below
    is a report of one such study, from sciencedaily.com. They appear to
    be missing the obvious point that it may be possible to avoid stressors
    to begin with, and thus "stimulating" cells to produce more
    antioxidants may not be necessary. Actually, it may be dangerous to do
    this for more than a couple week or a month or so, but for some reason,
    the researchers seem to get very excited, perhaps thinking they are the
    next Einsteins, but then the long term results come in and they move on
    to something else, realizing that their idea is a failure. This
    happens over and over again, but they never seem to learn, perhaps
    because the history of science is not of much interest to most
    scientists. They always want to be "in the forefront," but the problem
    is that the "forefront" has produced next to nothing over the last few
    decades, at the very least.

    1/25/2006
    Researchers Discover New Way To Stimulate Brain To Release Antioxidants

    A joint research effort between researchers at the Burnham Institute
    for Medical Research in La Jolla, CA, and a team from Japan (Iwate
    University, Osaka City University, Gifu University, Iwate Medical
    University) has discovered a novel way to treat stroke and
    neurodegenerative disorders. This approach works by inducing nerve
    cells in the brain and the spine to release natural antioxidants that
    protect nerve cells from stress and free radicals that lead to
    neurodegenerative diseases. Until this discovery, researchers were
    unable to induce release of these specific antioxidants directly in
    nerve cells, at the site where damage and degeneration occurs.

    In stroke and various neurodegenerative disorders, such as Alzheimer's
    disease and Lou Gehrig's disease, glutamate, an amino acid found in
    high quantities in the brain, is thought to accumulate. At normal
    concentrations, glutamate acts as a neurotransmitter that nerves use to
    communicate. However, at excessive levels glutamate is toxic, resulting
    in over stimulation of nerve cells, known as excitotoxicity, and
    causing excessive stress on the nerve cells eventually ending in cell
    death. Studies described in this report suggest that NEPPs (short for
    NEurite outgrowth-Promoting Prostaglandins), compounds that accumulate
    in nerve cells, prevent nerve damage by activating the Keap1/Nrf2
    pathway that regulates the production of antioxidants which relieve
    cells of damaging free radicals that result from excitotoxicity.

    "This is the first reported evidence that this protective response can
    be activated directly in nerve cells to release antioxidants and
    counter oxidative stress," said Stuart Lipton, M.D., Ph.D., Director of
    the Del E. Webb Center for Neurosciences and Aging at the Burnham
    Institute and senior author of the study. "These findings provide
    support for further investigation of NEPP drugs to potentially treat
    ischemic stroke, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, Lou Gehrig's
    disease and other neurodegenerative disorders."

    Researchers found that NEPPs were able to activate a pathway in nerve
    cells that is designed to protect against oxidative and nitrosative
    stress (which produces free radicals) and excitotoxicity. This pathway,
    known as Keap1/NrF2, regulates the production of natural antioxidants,
    such as bilirubin, that can protect against oxidative stress resulting
    from ischemic stroke and degenerative disorders.

  3. "kumar" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:[email hidden]...

    Since this boards' focus is natural science you might find a statisfactory
    answer elsewhere-
    the proposed "laws" are not, in any way, scientific.

  4. montygram thanks. I am checking only. It may depend on amount and
    prolonged application to cause any damage. However it is important to
    note that even weak stimuli for prolong time can also cause serious
    damages. It is important in sense that many alt. systems claim no or
    least side effects of their healing agents. Probably it is the reason,
    why "law of minimum dose" is suggested in homeopathy.

    Anyway, can you reply my questions considering, if limited/few weak
    stumuli is applied?

    montygram said:

    Kumar:

    Wouldn't you like to see evidence of someone's "law" before you
    consider it established?

    In any case, cells obviously respond to stimuli, and the amount of
    stimuli is important, just as the kind of stimulation. Also, in the
    short term, "benefits" might be seen, but in the long term, serious
    damage might be done (or something like cancer may result).

    It is more useful to look at work that has actually been done. Below
    is a report of one such study, from sciencedaily.com. They appear to
    be missing the obvious point that it may be possible to avoid stressors
    to begin with, and thus "stimulating" cells to produce more
    antioxidants may not be necessary. Actually, it may be dangerous to do
    this for more than a couple week or a month or so, but for some reason,
    the researchers seem to get very excited, perhaps thinking they are the
    next Einsteins, but then the long term results come in and they move on
    to something else, realizing that their idea is a failure. This
    happens over and over again, but they never seem to learn, perhaps
    because the history of science is not of much interest to most
    scientists. They always want to be "in the forefront," but the problem
    is that the "forefront" has produced next to nothing over the last few
    decades, at the very least.

    1/25/2006
    Researchers Discover New Way To Stimulate Brain To Release Antioxidants

    A joint research effort between researchers at the Burnham Institute
    for Medical Research in La Jolla, CA, and a team from Japan (Iwate
    University, Osaka City University, Gifu University, Iwate Medical
    University) has discovered a novel way to treat stroke and
    neurodegenerative disorders. This approach works by inducing nerve
    cells in the brain and the spine to release natural antioxidants that
    protect nerve cells from stress and free radicals that lead to
    neurodegenerative diseases. Until this discovery, researchers were
    unable to induce release of these specific antioxidants directly in
    nerve cells, at the site where damage and degeneration occurs.

    In stroke and various neurodegenerative disorders, such as Alzheimer's
    disease and Lou Gehrig's disease, glutamate, an amino acid found in
    high quantities in the brain, is thought to accumulate. At normal
    concentrations, glutamate acts as a neurotransmitter that nerves use to
    communicate. However, at excessive levels glutamate is toxic, resulting
    in over stimulation of nerve cells, known as excitotoxicity, and
    causing excessive stress on the nerve cells eventually ending in cell
    death. Studies described in this report suggest that NEPPs (short for
    NEurite outgrowth-Promoting Prostaglandins), compounds that accumulate
    in nerve cells, prevent nerve damage by activating the Keap1/Nrf2
    pathway that regulates the production of antioxidants which relieve
    cells of damaging free radicals that result from excitotoxicity.

    "This is the first reported evidence that this protective response can
    be activated directly in nerve cells to release antioxidants and
    counter oxidative stress," said Stuart Lipton, M.D., Ph.D., Director of
    the Del E. Webb Center for Neurosciences and Aging at the Burnham
    Institute and senior author of the study. "These findings provide
    support for further investigation of NEPP drugs to potentially treat
    ischemic stroke, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, Lou Gehrig's
    disease and other neurodegenerative disorders."

    Researchers found that NEPPs were able to activate a pathway in nerve
    cells that is designed to protect against oxidative and nitrosative
    stress (which produces free radicals) and excitotoxicity. This pathway,
    known as Keap1/NrF2, regulates the production of natural antioxidants,
    such as bilirubin, that can protect against oxidative stress resulting
    from ischemic stroke and degenerative disorders.

  5. "Possible explanation
    The reason for the hormesis phenomenon is not completely understood. It
    is conjectured that a low dose challenge with a toxin may jump start
    certain repair mechanisms in the body, and these mechanisms are
    efficient enough that they not only neutralize the toxin's effect, but
    even repair other defects not caused by the toxin. This is similar in
    principle to viral vector vaccines under development for diseases such
    as cancer and AIDS.

    Similarly, continuing or intermittent mild stressors such as exercise,
    environmental fluctuations and even food limitations would seem to
    stimulate tolerance to sudden similar but more severe demands made upon
    the organism.

    Low doses always beneficial?
    While the most prominent cases of hormesis show low doses of toxins
    showing beneficial effects, this is not part of the definition of
    hormesis. The key is that low doses show the opposite effect of high
    doses. There are substances where low doses show detrimental effects
    not seen in high doses, (such as in routine low dosage of animals or
    humans with antibiotics?)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis "

    Wikipedia gives details about Hormesis--scientifically valid or
    doubtful, looks to be doughtful.

    MMu said:

    "kumar" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    news:[email hidden]...

    Since this boards' focus is natural science you might find a statisfactory
    answer elsewhere-
    the proposed "laws" are not, in any way, scientific.

  6. "Arndt-Schulz rule or Schulz' law is a law ..
    This rule has been applied intensively by homeopaths, to support their
    theories. However, the exceptions to the rule are so numerous that it
    can not be considered a general law.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arndt-Schulz_rule

    I think above link clear its current position that exceptions to the
    rule are so numerous that it can not be considered a general law. But
    it does not invalidate some possibilities.

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