Lying - now on the banned list!

janiejones said:

Is seems as though pro cyclists are not allowed to lie - what's next thou shalt not commit adultery and the rest of the ten commandments.

What a load of rubbish this tour has turned out to be - it is very obvious everyone is in everyone else's pockets, liggett, sherwen, Australia's own Tomarlaris (what a suck), prudhomme, lance, rabobank...

Part of cycling's anti-doping program is out of competition tests for the top fifty riders. You are required to inform the UCI of where you will be at all times so these random tests can be conducted.

When a rider disappears for 22 days prior to the TdF and says he was somewhere in Mexico and was actually in Italy then he has broken the rules. It's really pretty simple.

I fail to see a problem with prohibiting lying. "It goes to character, your honor."

Besides, it isn't necessarily about lying, but more about being unreachable when he was required to be.

Lying and cheating go together, hand in hand.

To say that one is in Mexico when you are in fact in Italy. That's a pretty bad lie! Enough to strongly suspect wrong doing.

sogood said:

To say that one is in Mexico when you are in fact in Italy. That's a pretty bad lie! Enough to strongly suspect wrong doing.

+1 If it was not OK to be caught doping, but OK to lie about your location to avoid being tested, then there would be no enforcement regime. Just make sure you disappear when you are being tested and you can race. IMHO, missing one test (not the 3 currently) should be automatic exclusion - if not, we're basically saying they can dope up twice as long as we don't find about about it.

janiejones said:

Is seems as though pro cyclists are not allowed to lie - what's next thou shalt not commit adultery and the rest of the ten commandments.

He lied to his employer who subsequently took disciplinary action. I don't really see how this is any different to the real world the rest of us reside in.

I'm fairly certain that if I rang into work sick tomorrow and went out riding instead and got caught, that my emplyoyer would take some form of action up to and including being fired.

--brett

[quote="janiejones"]Is seems as though pro cyclists are not allowed to lie - what's next thou shalt not commit adultery and the rest of the ten commandments.
QUOTE]

Would adhering to the 10 commandments be a bad thing? Every system of faith has some similiar sort of code.

Is it to much to ask or expect that people adhere to maintain a certain level of conduct?

Every athlete at the elite level is in a position of influence wether they like it or not and is consequently a role model wether they like it or not, it is part of the job.

Only the mindless dribble or moral relativism absolves or excuses them of misconduct. Untill they admit their mistake and ask for forgiveness, they desrve much worse than being fired.

azul_fahrrad said:

Only the mindless dribble or moral relativism absolves or excuses them of misconduct. Untill they admit their mistake and ask for forgiveness, they desrve much worse than being fired.

Talk about mindless dribble, and by dribble I assume you mean drivel. I would count your "words" as mindless drivel, too. I would expect a superior being would be above the petty emotions and needs of humans, emotions and needs like anger, revenge, spite, glorification by others.....ad infinitum.

[font=Comic Sans MS]If you lied to your employer and told your boss that you were going to a training course in Mexico which he paid for and paid your salary at the same time. And you actually went to a different course in a different country and lied about it to all your colleagues and friends - what would happen - I hope you'd be fired too.[/font]

alienator said:

I would expect a superior being would be above the petty emotions and needs of humans, emotions and needs like anger, revenge, spite, glorification by others.....ad infinitum.

Perhaps, depending on which belief system you subscribe to but we are talking about conduct lacking a strong moral foundation which is the main concern for superior beings.

azul_fahrrad said:

Perhaps, depending on which belief system you subscribe to but we are talking about conduct lacking a strong moral foundation which is the main concern for superior beings.

Oh, really? What makes you think that? And, perchance, what metric are you using to measure "morals," eh?

alienator said:

Oh, really? What makes you think that? And, perchance, what metric are you using to measure "morals," eh?

Well ultimately the "metric" is a personal view that is ultimately a matter between an individual and The Creator.

janiejones said:

Is seems as though pro cyclists are not allowed to lie - what's next thou shalt not commit adultery and the rest of the ten commandments.

My response was to this post.

Every person that I know that has anything close to a moral foundation consider lying to be bad, worng, immoral, etc.

And while I have not asked them I would be willing to wager that all of them would agree that doping to win a race is also immoral, they are all either Hindu, Christians or Muslims.

Short of moral relativism, I make an effort to be open minded. Please forgive me if I have failed.

alienator said:

Talk about mindless dribble, and by dribble I assume you mean drivel. I would count your "words" as mindless drivel, too. I would expect a superior being would be above the petty emotions and needs of humans, emotions and needs like anger, revenge, spite, glorification by others.....ad infinitum.

If God didn't care about us, then why would he have created us? Or why did He send His Son down to die and rase again for us?

Cycler6n said:

If God didn't care about us, then why would he have created us? Or why did He send His Son down to die and rase again for us?

Uhm, faith is a personal belief. It is not necessarily fact based. That is why it's called faith: you believe in something despite the lack of evidence.

So, please: don't preach as if you have facts in your pocket or as if your view is the correct view.

Prosthelitizing is disgusting and terribly offensive to every non-Christian religion in the world, as well as to anyone with alternative beliefs.

alienator said:

Uhm, faith is a personal belief. It is not necessarily fact based. That is why it's called faith: you believe in something despite the lack of evidence.

So, please: don't preach as if you have facts in your pocket or as if your view is the correct view.

Prosthelitizing is disgusting and terribly offensive to every non-Christian religion in the world.

I respect your point, but, just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it false, its whats true, not what you believe, and, faith isn't a belief in something that has a lack of evidence, but a belief in something that you can't see, or be with physically. You know, its not "my view", but whats true.

Cycler6n said:

I respect your point, but, just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it false, its whats true, not what you believe, and, faith isn't a belief in something that has a lack of evidence, but a belief in something that you can't see, or be with physically. You know, its not "my view", but whats true.

Oh? And how is it that you know it's true? Because you were taught that at a church? Because it's in the Bible?

Again, you have faith. That's fine: everyone has faith in something. Thinks that are true, however, are only verifiable by facts. You have no facts.

Don't preach here. Go to church for that. Leave people of other beliefs alone.

Cycler6n said:

I respect your point, but, just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it false, its whats true, not what you believe, and, faith isn't a belief in something that has a lack of evidence, but a belief in something that you can't see, or be with physically. You know, its not "my view", but whats true.

Uh-huh. As Carl Sagan was fond of saying, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." I don't see any evidence at all, let alone the extraordinary kind.
.

Chicken didn't just 'tell a lie', he lied about his whereabouts, in a situation where his location was critical. He was considered a contender to win the Tour, so he had to know that he would be subjected to scrutiny. What he did wasn't just bad, it was just plain stupid.

More than that, he embarressed his employer publicly. Leading the TDF, and the spectators were booing him. He embarressed the most prestigious race in cycling publicly. And his lie makes him look like he's hiding something.

He had to go. Hats off to Rabobank for having the cojones to do the right thing, for the good of what is left of the sport. If we have to make an example out of a couple of stars, so be it. They know the rules, they know what will happen if they don't follow them. And now, they know that wearing the MJ won't protect them. Painful, but necessary if cycling is to continue as a professional sport.

It's a safe bet that next year's contenders will have their ducks in a row.

alienator said:

Oh? And how is it that you know it's true? Because you were taught that at a church? Because it's in the Bible?

Again, you have faith. That's fine: everyone has faith in something. Thinks that are true, however, are only verifiable by facts. You have no facts.

Don't preach here. Go to church for that. Leave people of other beliefs alone.

Christian faith isn't about facts, it's putting your faith/trust in Christ, not looking for hardcore facts, and believe me there out there. Christians believe salvation is knowing your a sinner and admitting it to God, believing Christ is God, and that He died and rose again to pay for our sins, and accepting Him as your Lord and saviour. thats putting all your faith and trust in Him, just trusting that His death pays for your sins, so, in a nutshell, faith.

Cycler6n said:

Christian faith isn't about facts, it's putting your faith/trust in Christ, not looking for hardcore facts, and believe me there out there.

Oh? What facts are there, exactly, that prove the existence of your particular God, eh? Give 'em up, 'cuz they'll be the first in the history of man, to be ever revealed.

Cycler6n said:

....so, in a nutshell, faith.

No [censored]? Hmmm. You didn't like it when I called it faith earlier. Again, you should take your prosthelitizing somewhere else.