Making chicken stock.

Tanya Quinn said:

Hi - I'd like to try out making chicken stock sometime for some homemade soups but wasn't sure
what kind of chicken parts work best in the stock. As my household is only 2 people, we never
have occasion to buy and roast a large whole chicken. Recently we used a small whole chicken to
cut up for breasts for a dish that night and froze the legs, thighs and wings for later.
Questions (lots!)

1. The rest of the chicken that's left, can I just throw that into the stockpot whole - raw? Or do
I need to freeze the carcasses until I have more of them since they are small?

Why not freeze them, and as you use the breast, leg, etc, save the bones and gristle and put them in
the bag in the freezer. Whenever you think you have enough chicken scraps, simmer them for hours to
make the stock. It's not all that critical.

Quoted message said:

2. The stuff that comes in the plastic bag stuffed inside of the chicken (do they all come like
that?) - in or out of the stock?

Use everything except the liver. The liver tastes too strong.

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3. Or is better to use a carcass after I've roasted the chicken whole?
4. Can I mix carcasses that are raw and ones that are cooked?
5. Dethaw or throw in frozen?

The roasted carcass will probably taste a little different. It will be good either way. Yes, you can
mix them. Thawed or frozen doesn't matter.

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6. Is the stock better using legs, thighs etc in it instead of just the carcass? For these do you
use cooked leftovers or just raw parts?

Now for the after part of making the stock, I guess it would be ideal to make the soup the same
day, but since I'll probably have more stock and since making the stock is fairly time consuming
I'll freeze batches of the stock.

7. Just leave the container on the counter to dethaw, then make the soup?

It doesn't matter. Just don't leave it out to thaw and then forget about it.

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Any other tips on making stock would be great!

Bay leaf and whole peppercorns. And if you have some fresh parsley, saute it in a little chicken fat
in the stockpot before you add the chicken scraps and the water.

Best regards, Bob

(Tanya Quinn) said:

Hi - I'd like to try out making chicken stock sometime for some homemade soups but wasn't sure what
kind of chicken parts work best in the stock. As my household is only 2 people, we never have
occasion to buy and roast a large whole chicken. Recently we used a small whole chicken to cut up
for breasts for a dish that night and froze the legs, thighs and wings for later. Questions (lots!)

Answers -- lots -- in rfc archives. Google groups and use the 'advanced search' option to specify
"chicken stock" in the thread title. It is discussed endlessly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll freeze batches of the stock.

7. Just leave the container on the counter to dethaw, then make the soup?

Do NOT leave any meat thing or meat-containing thing at room temperature to defrost. No real need to
'defrost' anyhow -- just heave (the contents) into a pan and turn on the heat.

Frogleg said:

(Tanya Quinn) said:

Hi - I'd like to try out making chicken stock sometime for some homemade soups but wasn't sure
what kind of chicken parts work best in the stock. As my household is only 2 people, we never
have occasion to buy and roast a large whole chicken. Recently we used a small whole chicken to
cut up for breasts for a dish that night and froze the legs, thighs and wings for later.
Questions (lots!)

Answers -- lots -- in rfc archives. Google groups and use the 'advanced search' option to specify
"chicken stock" in the thread title. It is discussed endlessly.

Quoted message said:

I'll freeze batches of the stock.

7. Just leave the container on the counter to dethaw, then make the soup?

Do NOT leave any meat thing or meat-containing thing at room temperature to defrost. No real need
to 'defrost' anyhow -- just heave (the contents) into a pan and turn on the heat.

You might leave them out for an hour or two to start thawing (so you can dump it out of the
container.) As long as there's a bunch of ice in the middle, it will be fine. The whole container of
partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the ice is melted.

Best regards, Bob

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:45:50 -0600, zxcvbob <[email hidden]>

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Frogleg wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 19 Feb 2004 15:34:50 -0800, [email hidden] (Tanya Quinn) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll freeze batches of the stock.

7. Just leave the container on the counter to dethaw, then make the soup?

Do NOT leave any meat thing or meat-containing thing at room temperature to defrost. No real need
to 'defrost' anyhow -- just heave (the contents) into a pan and turn on the heat.

You might leave them out for an hour or two to start thawing (so you can dump it out of the
container.) As long as there's a bunch of ice in the middle, it will be fine. The whole container
of partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the ice is melted.

No, it won't. But you won't die from frozen stock left unrefrigerated for a while. I'm thinking a
straight-sided hard plastic container of some sort. That would take about 10 minutes at 'room
temperature' to thaw enough to ease the stock out of the container into a pot where it could be
heated up.

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

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zxcvbob said:

Frogleg wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 19 Feb 2004 15:34:50 -0800, [email hidden] (Tanya Quinn) wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>I'll freeze batches of the stock.
>
>7. Just leave the container on the counter to dethaw, then make the soup?

Do NOT leave any meat thing or meat-containing thing at room temperature to defrost. No real
need to 'defrost' anyhow -- just heave (the contents) into a pan and turn on the heat.

You might leave them out for an hour or two to start thawing (so you can dump it out of the
container.) As long as there's a bunch of ice in the middle, it will be fine. The whole container
of partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the ice is melted.

No, it won't.

Yep, it will. It's well established that a water/ice mix will stabilize at or near the
freezing point.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the [censored] from my email address before using.

Peter Aitken said:

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:45:50 -0600, zxcvbob <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The whole container of partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the ice
is melted.

No, it won't.

Yep, it will. It's well established that a water/ice mix will stabilize at or near the
freezing point.

Only if insulated. True as a lab experiment. The entire process of 'thawing' implies a constant heat
exchange, with the liquid absorbing ambient heat and the ice melting. Damn, I need a digital, instant-
read thermometer! I know that this is one of those counter-intuitive things, but I'm *sure* the
completely liquified portions of a container of chicken stock wouldn't be near freezing for long.
Cold, yes. Not up to ambient temperature, yes. But still continuously providing a conduit from
ambient surroundings to interior ice. The edges have *got* to be warmer than freezing, else the ice
would never melt. You and Bob may be right about the physics; I'm right about not leaving things out
to thaw. :-)

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Aitken said:

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:45:50 -0600, zxcvbob <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>The whole container of partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the
>ice is melted.

No, it won't.

Yep, it will. It's well established that a water/ice mix will stabilize

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or near the freezing point.

Only if insulated. True as a lab experiment. The entire process of 'thawing' implies a constant
heat exchange, with the liquid absorbing ambient heat and the ice melting. Damn, I need a digital,
instant-read thermometer! I know that this is one of those counter-intuitive things, but I'm
*sure* the completely liquified portions of a container of chicken stock wouldn't be near freezing
for long. Cold, yes. Not up to ambient temperature, yes. But still continuously providing a
conduit from ambient surroundings to interior ice. The edges have *got* to be warmer than
freezing, else the ice would never melt. You and Bob may be right about the physics; I'm right
about not leaving things out to thaw. :-)

How typical of the newsgroup - you are "sure" without theory or data to back you up. Think of a
similar situation - a glass to iced tea, a gin and tonic, any drink with ice cubes in it. Does the
liquid get warm or does it even warm up to just "cool?" No. At the edges it may be a few degrees
warmer than freezing, but that is still plenty cold to inhibit bacterial growth.

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the [censored] from my email address before using.

Frogleg said:

Peter Aitken said:

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 12:45:50 -0600, zxcvbob <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>The whole container of partially frozen stock will remain at about 32 degrees until all the ice
>is melted.

No, it won't.

Yep, it will. It's well established that a water/ice mix will stabilize at or near the
freezing point.

Only if insulated. True as a lab experiment. The entire process of 'thawing' implies a constant
heat exchange, with the liquid absorbing ambient heat and the ice melting. Damn, I need a digital,
instant-read thermometer! I know that this is one of those counter-intuitive things, but I'm
*sure* the completely liquified portions of a container of chicken stock wouldn't be near freezing
for long. Cold, yes. Not up to ambient temperature, yes. But still continuously providing a
conduit from ambient surroundings to interior ice. The edges have *got* to be warmer than
freezing, else the ice would never melt. You and Bob may be right about the physics; I'm right
about not leaving things out to thaw. :-)

Well, not exactly. Here's a surprising bit of science that disagrees. hi-tm.comThawOpen ↗
counter.html

Pastorio

On Sat, 21 Feb 2004 13:41:54 -0500, "Bob (this one)" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Frogleg said:

I'm *sure* the completely liquified portions of a container of chicken stock wouldn't be near
freezing for long. Cold, yes. Not up to ambient temperature, yes. But still continuously
providing a conduit from ambient surroundings to interior ice. The edges have *got* to be warmer
than freezing, else the ice would never melt. You and Bob may be right about the physics; I'm
right about not leaving things out to thaw. :-)

Well, not exactly. Here's a surprising bit of science that disagrees. hi-tm.comThawOpen ↗
counter.html

The above concludes: "There is no risk in thawing these products [incl. poultry] at room
temperature." But the body of the article mentions measuring bacterial growth after thawing "to an
internal temperature of 40F within the breast." How many home cooks set a turkey out to thaw and
insert a temperature probe to alarm when it reaches 40F? I still can't help thinking that a certain
amount of sly reproduction is going on in the outer portions when "room temperature" is 85F and the
cook is prevented for an hour or 2 from preparing the fowl.

Frogleg said:

How many home cooks set a turkey out to thaw and insert a temperature probe to alarm when it
reaches 40F?

I measure the temp as you suggest sometimes, depending on the stuff in question. You don't
necessarily need an alarm though 🙂

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I still can't help thinking that a certain amount of sly reproduction is going on in the outer
portions when "room temperature" is 85F and the cook is prevented for an hour or 2 from preparing
the fowl.

Why guess about it? Measure and find out.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg said:

Frogleg said:

How many home cooks set a turkey out to thaw and insert a temperature probe to alarm when it
reaches 40F?

I measure the temp as you suggest sometimes, depending on the stuff in question. You don't
necessarily need an alarm though 🙂

Quoted message said:

I still can't help thinking that a certain amount of sly reproduction is going on in the outer
portions when "room temperature" is 85F and the cook is prevented for an hour or 2 from preparing
the fowl.

Setting up an extreme situation doesn't negate the more reasonable application. If it's 85F, throw a
couple tea towels over it and it's ok. And don't forget... it's about to be cooked.

Quoted message said:

Why guess about it? Measure and find out.

Why worry about it at all? Cook the bird to 160F and be done with it. Everything of consequence is
dead at that temp; has been since 140F.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

Reg said:

Why guess about it? Measure and find out.

Why worry about it at all? Cook the bird to 160F and be done with it. Everything of consequence is
dead at that temp; has been since 140F.

If you're saying that product won't spoil while thawing at room temperature I disagree, because I've
seen it happen. It's a question of how long it sits and at what temperature.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg said:

Bob (this one) said:

Reg said:

Why guess about it? Measure and find out.

Why worry about it at all? Cook the bird to 160F and be done with it. Everything of consequence
is dead at that temp; has been since 140F.

If you're saying that product won't spoil while thawing at room temperature I disagree, because
I've seen it happen. It's a question of how long it sits and at what temperature.

I'm saying read the paper cited a few posts back so you understand the setting. Then read the post
to which I replied above. Then perhaps see if you can restrain yourself from stating the obvious.

Of course food will spoil sitting out unrefrigerated long enough. And of course spoilage isn't like
clicking a light switch. Foods spoil gradually. Cooking foods can eliminate any effects of spoilage
under certain circumstances. In others, the cooked food will be wholesome, but flavor and texture
will be off.

It's not a black/white situation.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

I'm saying read the paper cited a few posts back so you understand the setting. Then read the post
to which I replied above. Then perhaps see if you can restrain yourself from stating the obvious.

"The setting" in this case is your previous post questioning why I sometimes monitor product
temperature while thawing it, which then more or less required me to state the obvious, as
you put it.

Quoted message said:

Of course food will spoil sitting out unrefrigerated long enough. And of course spoilage isn't
like clicking a light switch. Foods spoil gradually. Cooking foods can eliminate any effects of
spoilage under certain circumstances. In others, the cooked food will be wholesome, but flavor and
texture will be off.

I'm not big on the idea of cooking something that has acquired off flavors or odors as a result of
temperature abuse, even if safety isn't an issue, and even if cooking may (or may not) fix it. Hence
the value of monitoring the temperature.

Quoted message said:

It's not a black/white situation.

No, it certainly is not.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Peter Aitken said:

"Frogleg" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only if insulated. True as a lab experiment. The entire process of 'thawing' implies a constant
heat exchange, with the liquid absorbing ambient heat and the ice melting. Damn, I need a
digital, instant-read thermometer! I know that this is one of those counter-intuitive things, but
I'm *sure* the completely liquified portions of a container of chicken stock wouldn't be near
freezing for long.

How typical of the newsgroup - you are "sure" without theory or data to back you up. Think of a
similar situation - a glass to iced tea, a gin and tonic, any drink with ice cubes in it. Does the
liquid get warm or does it even warm up to just "cool?" No. At the edges it may be a few degrees
warmer than freezing, but that is still plenty cold to inhibit bacterial growth.

My birthday is next month. I'd *love* to have a nice digital thermometer. :-) And promise to do
experiments and report back. I'm just trying to steer my way between gov't food agency advisories
and "my mother always left the turkey with dressing out for a week after Thanksgiving, and none of
*us* died." As I said, the water/ice question is true in the lab, 'though rather counter-intuitive.