mapp gas

Mapp is a good alternative for propane it seems to get hotter. When I was young and worked as a
plumber, Propane would not get hot enough to encapsulate the fiutting with heat so the 60/40 lead
solder would not seep into the joint. Mapp gas gets hotter than Propane. You may be able to adjust
the spread of the heat to make a better soldered joint. I'm not talking larger or smaler but wider.
What your real need is, is to find the correct solder and see if Mapp gas will get hot enough to
force the solder to seep into the joints. You know compare the melting point of the solder with the
max temp of the "welder".

I thought I'd throw an easier alternative to find the answer... The specs on the Mapp gas as far as
temperature goes should be on the bottle. If it isn't the information should be available at the
maker of the MApp gas product's website.

NS

NS said:

Mapp is a good alternative for propane it seems to get hotter. When I was young and worked as a
plumber, Propane would not get hot enough to encapsulate the fiutting with heat so the 60/40 lead
solder would not seep into the joint. Mapp gas gets hotter than Propane. You may be able to adjust
the spread of the heat to make a better soldered joint. I'm not talking larger or smaler but wider.
What your real need is, is to find the correct solder and see if Mapp gas will get hot enough to
force the solder to seep into the joints.

yes, I think the mapp will be hot enough, but whether it can do a larger area, like that of a
bicycle tube, I'm yet to find our. Silver 'braze' <sometimes, amd often erroneously> refered to as
'solder' used to be the default for bicyle frames I think...but these joints had lugs, and without
them, you're lookin at fillet brazing. I think the advantage of silver, although much more expensive
than a brass/bronze combination type filer metal, is that it melts at a lower temperature, which
would obviously suit mapp.

garry

Quoted message said:

You know compare the melting point of the solder with the max temp of the "welder".

I thought I'd throw an easier alternative to find the answer... The specs on the Mapp gas as far as
temperature goes should be on the bottle. If it isn't the information should be available at the
maker of the MApp gas product's website.

NS

Disclaimer: I am not a gifted fabricator.

I've used one of the cheap oxygen/mapp gas kits to fix a few "not worth fixing" bikes and to make a
couple of not quite C.H.U.N.K ish projects. It works, I would not use it to repair anything
valuable. The tiny, low pressure oxygen cylinders don't last long and are expensive.

A better alternative for me is to rent an oxy/acetylene kit from the local tool rental for a
day or two.

I have found plain rod and separate flux works better for control. The coated rods, at least in my
hands, make for a "glob and hope" joint.

Marcus

Hi, garry, you might want to also try your question on:-

phred.orgframebuildersOpen ↗

They have archives there too and you will be able to get any more questions that you might
have answered.

BTW, when I built my first 'bent, back in 1981, I tried those small cylinders and I would not
recommend them for what you want to do.

Lewis.

.............................

Garry Broad <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(trying this one over here)

I'm going to have a crack at building a recumbent out of some old frames I have lying around.
Although, I'm still some way off deciding exactly what I'm going to do and how I'm going to do it,
I'd still be interested to know if anybody has had any experience with using those small
disposable mapp gas bottles to braze this kind of steel tubing together. And if so (providing it's
a good braze of course....I know I need pelenty of experience to get to that stage), how strong is
a braze like this going to be? For a first effort, I'll make it as simple as I can, and so I'll
obviously be using one of the rear triangles from one of the frames, but I'll have to do a couple
of important joins near the steering etc

After reading as much as I can around the subject, looking at what other people have done, I get
mixed messages about whether mapp gas used with a flux-coated brazing rod is going to be
suitable or not.

One of the reasons for mentioning mapp is that I don't have the facilities to store oxy/act
bottles here, and although I could obviously get the work done by somebody else, if possible, I'd
like to have a crack myself.

Would be interested to know of any experiences.

cheers

garry

(Lewis Campbell) said:

Hi, garry, you might want to also try your question on:-

phred.orgframebuildersOpen ↗

ah right, yes, some very relevant threads there.

Quoted message said:

They have archives there too and you will be able to get any more questions that you might have
answered.

BTW, when I built my first 'bent, back in 1981, I tried those small cylinders and I would not
recommend them for what you want to do.

Sure, I'm beginning to realize this, although I think it is possibe, but it looks tricky. I'm just
experimenting on various bits of steel at the moment. Ideally I'd need oxy/act tanks, but I have
nowhere safe to store them. Still, where's there's a will there's a way :-)

Thanks Lewis

Garry

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(trying this one over here)

I'm going to have a crack at building a recumbent out of some old frames I have lying around.
Although, I'm still some way off deciding exactly what I'm going to do and how I'm going to do it,
I'd still be interested to know if anybody has had any experience with using those small
disposable mapp gas bottles to braze this kind of steel tubing together. And if so (providing it's
a good braze of course....I know I need pelenty of experience to get to that stage), how strong is
a braze like this going to be? For a first effort, I'll make it as simple as I can, and so I'll
obviously be using one of the rear triangles from one of the frames, but I'll have to do a couple
of important joins near the steering etc

After reading as much as I can around the subject, looking at what other people have done, I get
mixed messages about whether mapp gas used with a flux-coated brazing rod is going to be
suitable or not.

One of the reasons for mentioning mapp is that I don't have the facilities to store oxy/act
bottles here, and although I could obviously get the work done by somebody else, if possible, I'd
like to have a crack myself.

Would be interested to know of any experiences.

I cannot answer your question directly, never having brazed with MAPP-Air. I'm pretty sure you wil
be very limited using a MAPP-Air handheld tank. You can rent an Oxy-Acetylene rig for a weekend
which might be a better idea. Especially taking joints apart is much easier with a full size flame.
Burn off the paint, wire brush clean and use copious amounts of flux during your preheat. Dirty
joints are not as simply opened and a small flame just makes for frustration. Clean your new joints
as well as possible and miter for maximum contact. 60-grit emery on a roll is great for that kind of
cleanup work.

I once worked in a bicycle factory that ran Oxy-MAPP. It was suitable although I never got a good
explanation about why no acetylene. More soot than our Oxy-Propane.

Get a roughly 1600 degreee free-flowing bronze rod and a matching powder flux of the same
temperature.. Flux coated is OK AEBE but the selection is more limited and you need the powder flux
anyway. Oxy-Propane is ideal, Oxy-Acetylene readily available.

--
Andrew Muzi yellowjersey.orgyellowjersey.orgOpen ↗ Open every day since 1 April 1971