marathon goal setting

Doug Freese wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.

Sheeeet, that ain't nuttin'. Hell, I do more than that in training each
year and most have 7,000 feet of up and down. Monica Scholz did 23 100
mile races in 2001. That's a 100 about every other week on average but
many were only a week apart. She did all the hard ones and did well in
her age group in most of them. An amazing lady!!!

You have to go aways to crank up my "oh wow!". 😉

-DF

23 x 100 miles for real? That's sick!

Just curious is she a toothpick? Physics comes into play somewhere there.

- Tony

Mrs. Freesepop <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am sorry that my husband is trying to mock you, Doug. He calls
himself Freeze pop or something like that. His real name is Bill
Davidson.

Tabitha

Damn! If we're married, I want some puddin' tang woman!
-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.

Doug,

First of all, Lance didn't write that. I did.

Quoted message said:

Sheeeet, that ain't nuttin'. Hell, I do more than that in training each
year and most have 7,000 feet of up and down. Monica Scholz did 23 100
mile races in 2001. That's a 100 about every other week on average but
many were only a week apart. She did all the hard ones and did well in
her age group in most of them. An amazing lady!!!

Quoted message said:

You have to go aways to crank up my "oh wow!". 😉

Second, the point wasn't to crank up anyone's wow-o-meter.
I was just disagreeing with Mel when she said that the
point of running is to reach some arbitrary time goal.
Many run not for time goals, but for other reasons.

Btw, if you ever decide to do Badwater, let me know.
I'll come and beat you by an hour.
Currently, my long run is 9 miles.

jobs

Respect the distance. Respect the distance.

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is always the hard part. We have all the calculators at our disposal,
but
at the end of the day, we need to decide what sorts of risks we're
prepared to
take, what we really want to get out of the race, and things like that.
There
does not exist a calculator that can answer these sorts of questions, so
after
running the numbers and stats, the first thing we do is grab hold of the
first
number the calculator gives us (or maybe a slightly adjusted version). But
then
there are other questions -- what do you want to get out of this race ? Do
you
want to run the perfect race ? Or do you want to run a good race ? Running
a
PR is a reasonable goal for some, but for most first timers (and even
second or
third timers) it is inevitable, hence not meaningful.

Thinking about this -- my philosophy is to simply not worry about running
the
perfect race first time around. It's more important to have a good time
and
get a score on the board. If I could pull negative splits, that would be
great.

After thinking this over, and thinking over some advice I've received both
here
and elsewhere, I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace (2:54
pace)
and try to shoot for even of negative splits on the second half.

This makes it fairly unlikely that I'll break 2:50. But on the other
hand, if
I end up with a time in the 2:51-2:54 range with negative splits on my
first
try, I'll still be pretty happy.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:maDdd.6374$Ug4.2678@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

23 x 100 miles for real? That's sick!

She is for real! There was a web page that listed all the races and her
times and placement. I can't seem to find it.

Quoted message said:

Just curious is she a toothpick? Physics comes into play somewhere
there.

Not thin at all. In fact I would say 5'7' maybe 140ish pounds . I ran
with her in 2000 for a few hours and she introduced herself to me but I
had no idea who she was. Nice lady and fun for a bloody lawyer. I beat
her by a few minutes. She also ran in 2001 while she was cranking up one
a week and she blew my doors off coming off Western States and Hardrock.

-DougF

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

First of all, Lance didn't write that. I did.

It's getting hard to tell the players

Quoted message said:

Second, the point wasn't to crank up anyone's wow-o-meter.
I was just disagreeing with Mel when she said that the
point of running is to reach some arbitrary time goal.
Many run not for time goals, but for other reasons.

I was merely says that 9 maratons in a year is commendable but all
relative.

Quoted message said:

Btw, if you ever decide to do Badwater, let me know.
I'll come and beat you by an hour.
Currently, my long run is 9 miles.

That's 9 more miles than I'll ever run on that course - you win!

-DF

Doug Freese said:

"Tony" <qtrader2@(remove)hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:maDdd.6374$Ug4.2678@trndny01...

Quoted message said:

23 x 100 miles for real? That's sick!

She is for real!

Quoted message said:

There was a web page that listed all the races and her
times and placement. I can't seem to find it.

http://tinyurl.com/48mc4
Notice the Susitna 100 in there - that would be 100 snow/ice miles
carrying much of your gear although there are some aid stations.

But I think the funny one is this one (look down under women's and note
the note):
http://tinyurl.com/67dow

Note that she got the world record, then quit at just over 20 hrs since
she had to go to work.

Quoted message said:

Monica Scholz comfortably ran jut enough miles to break the womens' record
of 98 miles. She decided to quit an even number so skipped, hopped and ran her
way to 100 miles. She told me she had to go to work!?!?

from
http://tinyurl.com/5m5vj

Just goes to show what a little training, experience, and probably a
touch of talent can do 🙂

Dot

--
"So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

Donovan Rebbechi said:

After thinking this over, and thinking over some advice I've received both here
and elsewhere, I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace (2:54 pace)
and try to shoot for even of negative splits on the second half.

Sounds like a sensible plan. Be prepared to make some adjustments if
it's unseasonably warm...

Quoted message said:

This makes it fairly unlikely that I'll break 2:50. But on the other hand, if
I end up with a time in the 2:51-2:54 range with negative splits on my first
try, I'll still be pretty happy.

My first marathon I managed a negative split by about 4 minutes. I
didn't have that many miles logged, but overall
it felt "easy" and I finished inside my "dream" time for back then.
Since than I've improved my times and run more miles
in preparation, but no neg splits and much harder races.

For reference here are my "data points":

Year Ave/Max mileage prev 3 months 1/2M 4 weeks earlier
Result Split
2001 40/50 1:36
3:26 - 4mins
2002 45/55 1:31
3:16 even
2004 60/65 1:24
2:57 +4 mins

Good luck,

Anthony.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

"Lanceandrew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I met a guy once that was running his 9th marathon of the year.

Doug,

First of all, Lance didn't write that. I did.

When *will* Lance learn to quote properly?

Tim

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thinking about this -- my philosophy is to simply not worry about running the
perfect race first time around. It's more important to have a good time and
get a score on the board. If I could pull negative splits, that would be
great.

The odds are that this approach will, almost as a side effect,
produce *the perfect first marathon race", i.e. one where the
best possible result (or reasonably close to it) is achieved
and the kind of inner experience which comes with either over-
estimating oneself or running short of one´s ability avoided.

Apart from that, nothing can be expected and everything must
be accepted as it is: you may or may not be able to increase
pace or sustain it, a sense of flow during the race or a feeling
of exhilaration after finishing may or may not appear etc etc.

Quoted message said:

After thinking this over, and thinking over some advice I've received both
here and elsewhere, I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace
(2:54 pace) and try to shoot for even or negative splits on the second half.

The next big question would be *when* to increase your pace:
I´d suggest waiting until the 25K mark even when you feel
strong - it´s better to be able to sustain that pace to the
finish (and to have or to believe to have a bit left over),
you`ll still have every reason to feel proud of having pushed
your body and mind far enough.

(No direct comparison and simply anecdotal: such a race strategy
produced a PB of 2.57 and a negative split by 4.5min for a
female runner, who was known as a middle distance runner.)

(BTW for the interests of science and pseudoscience, I´d appreciate
it if you (at some suitable time after the marathon) took the
trouble of applying your data into Paul Slovic´s "prediction
algorithms".)

Anders

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/48mc4
Notice the Susitna 100 in there - that would be 100 snow/ice miles
carrying much of your gear although there are some aid stations.

Thanks for the web page.

Quoted message said:

http://tinyurl.com/5m5vj

Quoted message said:

Just goes to show what a little training, experience, and probably a
touch of talent can do 🙂

To me the truly incredible feature is her ability to recover - she was
racing each of these. As a side notion just think of the cost for each
of these races and as far I can tell she paid it ll out of her pocket. I
don't think at that time she was even getting compted for entry fees. A
recent marathon finisher was mentioning how difficult is was going from
the finish line and into a plane. I wonder how she felt.

-Doug

Anders Lustig said:

The odds are that this approach will, almost as a side effect,
produce *the perfect first marathon race", i.e. one where the
best possible result (or reasonably close to it) is achieved
and the kind of inner experience which comes with either over-
estimating oneself or running short of one´s ability avoided.

Hope so.

Quoted message said:

Apart from that, nothing can be expected and everything must
be accepted as it is: you may or may not be able to increase
pace or sustain it, a sense of flow during the race or a feeling
of exhilaration after finishing may or may not appear etc etc.

Yep.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

After thinking this over, and thinking over some advice I've received both
here and elsewhere, I've decided I'm going to start at about a 6:40 pace
(2:54 pace) and try to shoot for even or negative splits on the second half.

The next big question would be *when* to increase your pace:

After the halfway mark, I'll let my instincts take over. That might mean
increasing the pace, or it might not. Depends on how I feel when I get
there. Usually when I increase, I ease into it -- first, I look to join
a pack 10 yards up, etc. I'm still going to resist the urge to do a sub 6:30
until the 18 mile mark.

Quoted message said:

(BTW for the interests of science and pseudoscience, I´d appreciate
it if you (at some suitable time after the marathon) took the
trouble of applying your data into Paul Slovic´s "prediction
algorithms".)

Could you point me to them ?

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Donovan Rebbechi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The next big question would be *when* to increase your pace:

Quoted message said:

After the halfway mark, I'll let my instincts take over. That might mean
increasing the pace, or it might not. Depends on how I feel when I get
there. Usually when I increase, I ease into it -- first, I look to join
a pack 10 yards up, etc. I'm still going to resist the urge to do a sub 6:30
until the 18 mile mark.

Hmm, this could mean, depending on how you feel, going sub-6:40
from some point after 21km and sub-6:30 after some point after
29km.

Probably as good as waiting until 25km before going sub-6:40
and more or less "kicking right in" at sub 6:30 (in the manner
of my anecdotal runner who went, succsfully, from 4:15+min/km
to 4:00+, her slowest post-25 km a 4:05 - she had obviously
beforehand decided not only on "When?", but also on "How much?"😉.

Quoted message said:

Could you point me to them ?

Either you´re human (and you don´t always read every single
reply you get) or your newsreader isn´t perfect (and it
missed my post in the "Donnie to do NY marathon" thread):-)

http://users.erols.com/jimsue/running/marathoning/lessons_from_the_past.htm

Anders