marathon training question

In article said:

I've got the Seattle Marathon coming up in a month. I have a 22 mile run scheduled for this
weekend (saturday). I've run three 20 mile runs and two 18 mile runs already. But my last 20 mile
run was a month ago and my weekly milage has dropped from 50 to about 35 to 40 miles a week, as I
think I've been overtraining a bit and too busy to get in miles. But I make sure to do speed
training once a week and throw in a 10 mile run during the weekdays.

My goal is for a 3:40 marathon run (right around a 8:30 min pace). I have been able to 10 Yasso
800's ending the last three at around 3:10 pace. Run 10 miles at the 8 min pace and it felt good.

But because it's been a month since my last 20 mile run and I've only got one more planned then
the taper: My question is: has my endurance declined? Will I be able to hold the 8:30 min pace or
better come race day a month from now.

One more question: is it OK to continue training with a sore throat?

Thanks for any help.

Sounds to me like you're doing fine. The kind of endurance you get from long runs comes and goes
slowly. I ran a 5k PR after a forced *two month* reduction in milage and speed work due to injury. I
was on 20mpw and almost no speed work for two months whereas I'd previously been on 40mpw plus 2
speed sessions per week.

So I wouldn't change plans over the reduction in training. But it might be better to try running
something better than yassos to set your race time. But only if you have enough time and there is an
available race (anything 10k or more)

Dunno about the sore throat thing. Probably OK but you don't want to be ill when it comes
to the race.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I'm hardly an expert (6 thons with a 3:39 best), but from what you have told us, you're right on
track. You didn't say what you have done distance-wise since your last 20 miler, but if you have
done any half-marathonish or better distances during that spell, you will likely be fine. Given your
overtraining concerns, the mileage cutback will likely be to your benefit. Enjoy the 22 this w/end
and look forward to the taper. Can't say about the sore throat-whatever feels right. It's too early
to let paranoia get a grip on you now. Thats what the taper is for 🙂. Taper responsibly, maintain
intensity, eat right, and get your sleep. Sounds like you got it nailed.

Beasley said:

I've got the Seattle Marathon coming up in a month. I have a 22 mile run scheduled for this
weekend (saturday). I've run three 20 mile runs and two 18 mile runs already. But my last 20 mile
run was a month ago and my weekly milage has dropped from 50 to about 35 to 40 miles a week, as I
think I've been overtraining a bit and too busy to get in miles. But I make sure to do speed
training once a week and throw in a 10 mile run during the weekdays.

My goal is for a 3:40 marathon run (right around a 8:30 min pace). I have been able to 10 Yasso
800's ending the last three at around 3:10 pace. Run 10 miles at the 8 min pace and it felt good.

But because it's been a month since my last 20 mile run and I've only got one more planned then
the taper: My question is: has my endurance declined? Will I be able to hold the 8:30 min pace or
better come race day a month from now.

One more question: is it OK to continue training with a sore throat?

Thanks for any help.

Tom

--
Random number generation is too vital a task to be left to chance.

Each of us is different. Your plan is within reason. I personally would not go for the 22 miles.
Most authorities have found that runs over about 18 miles don't really help and may do some harm.
Somewhere around that distance, you do more damage than good to your body.

However if that works for you, I say go for it.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

"Beasley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've got the Seattle Marathon coming up in a month. I have a 22 mile run scheduled for this
weekend (saturday). I've run three 20 mile runs and

two

Quoted message said:

18 mile runs already. But my last 20 mile run was a month ago and my

weekly

Quoted message said:

milage has dropped from 50 to about 35 to 40 miles a week, as I think I've been overtraining a bit
and too busy to get in miles. But I make sure to

do

Quoted message said:

speed training once a week and throw in a 10 mile run during the weekdays.

My goal is for a 3:40 marathon run (right around a 8:30 min pace). I have been able to 10 Yasso
800's ending the last three at around 3:10 pace.

Run

Quoted message said:

10 miles at the 8 min pace and it felt good.

But because it's been a month since my last 20 mile run and I've only got one more planned then
the taper: My question is: has my endurance

declined?

Quoted message said:

Will I be able to hold the 8:30 min pace or better come race day a month from now.

One more question: is it OK to continue training with a sore throat?

Thanks for any help.

Tom

Thanks Donavan, Wayne, and Joseph. You guys gave me the reassurance I needed, so there is no need to
freak out about decreasing my milage. I'll be doing a 22 miler this weekend in my new shoes then on
to the taper, while still doing my speed workouts. I don't know why, but my favorite training days
are track and interval days.

I'll keep you guys posted as the marathon creeps up and let you know the results. I'm still hoping
for a 3:40, (but in the back of my mind I want a
3:30). So I'll start at the
4:40 pace and speed it up after the 13.1 mile marker if I think I've got it in me.

Tom

In article said:

results. I'm still hoping for a 3:40, (but in the back of my mind I want a
3:30).

The desires in the back of ones mind can be very dangerous things. Having poorly defined goals is a
recipe for trouble, IMO. It certainly caused me some trouble in my 4 miler (where I failed to drop
back after a fast start, because I was on pace for the faster of my two goals) and probably caused
Global some trouble in his marathon. In my case, allowing myself to chase the more ambitious of my
two goals cost me both of them.

Half way is too early to make substantial and spontaneous revisions to goals, especially in long and
unfamiliar races. Getting a 3:30 after running the first half at 3:40 pace would require you to
speed up by about 45 seconds per mile. In Daniels Running Formula, Jack Daniels says run the first
3/4 of the race with your head and the last 1/4 with your heart. This advice has served me well on
those occasions that I've heeded it.

So I recommend that you choose one and only one goal prior to the race, and avoid getting distracted
by the back of your mind.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I personally would not go for the 22 miles. Most authorities have found that runs over

Quoted message said:

about 18 miles don't really help and may do some harm. Somewhere around that distance, you do more
damage than good to your body.

This is interesting, as many sources I've read consider 20-21 mile runs good as
'thonpreparation, for instance in Advanced Marathoning's program up to 55 mpw. What authorities
are you thinking of here ?

Arne

On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 19:03:30 +0000 (UTC), Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

Hey, here's a thread for the intensity-running guy (Donovan) and the
if-it-don't-feel-good-screw-it-running guy (me).

Quoted message said:

The desires in the back of ones mind can be very dangerous things. Having poorly defined goals is a
recipe for trouble, IMO. It certainly caused me some trouble in my 4 miler (where I failed to drop
back after a fast start, because I was on pace for the faster of my two goals) and probably caused
Global some trouble in his marathon. In my case, allowing myself to chase the more ambitious of my
two goals cost me both of them.

Couldn't agree more. There's evil lurking everywhere just waiting for us to get tired or distracted
enough to let our guards down. For the purpose of discussion, let's call this evil Wild Billy G.
(WBG). WBG is just waiting a chance to mess you up. Every event run (and, from my experience, every
training run) has phases - good, tough, and cruising. A number of us focus on handling the tough
phases - "Yeah, it feels like I'm about to die but I *know* it'll pass." WBG will show up during
these phases tempting us with cool shade to sit in, a shortcut home, or automatic updates. Most
folks can tell WBG, "Get thee behind me, [censored]" - well, up to a point.

The experienced folks here (I ain't one of 'em) also focus on the good phases cause they know that's
when WBG will be at his worst. WBG will sneak up (through an undocumented API call) and point out
how good we feel, how strong we are, how good looking we are. He'll say, "Runner, you're damn good
right now." <Get on the runner's good foot.>

"You could cruise like this all the way to the finish." <He's setting the stage that there won't be
any more phases.>

"That original goal you set was not nearly good enough for a runner like you." <He's showing the
bait and getting ready to set the hook.>

"Your Momma was right on when she said you were special." <That SOB!>

"Don't pick it from this pace so you can save a little for the end but you'll smoke you old PB."
<The hook is there but will we let him set it?>

"The <genders that we lust after> will be really impressed when you come cruising in at this pace."
<Damn, the sucker don't play fair.>

"That's right. The extra effort isn't really all that much." <We're toast.>

"BWAAA-HAAAA-HAAAA! Are you ready for the 2004 edition?" <[censored]. Yeah, which hole do I dump my money
down? Phenomenolgically speaking. I'll do right after I finish this death march.>

Quoted message said:

So I recommend that you choose one and only one goal prior to the race, and avoid getting
distracted by the back of your mind.

JUST SAY NO!

Layne

-------------------------------------------------------
The rec.running report archives may be found at kinder.cis.unf.edurec.runningOpen ↗

You are right Donovan. Thanks for keeping me in prospective. I did a 12 mile run last night and did
10 miles at a very consistant 8 min pace (marathon goal pace). It felt really good, not very tired,
but I could feel my legs get a little tight on the last mile. I think if I tried this pace come
marathon day, I would crash by mile 20, but who knows. I'm going to go for an 8:20 to 8:30 pace come
marathon day and stick to that until mile 20. If I have reserves left, I'll pick up the pace, if not
I'll just have to dig deep and try to maintain the pace.

As much as I want to go for the 3:30, I think that should be another day. Plus I love the feeling
late in the race of keeping the same pace or running a little faster and passing all those that
started too fast. Running past people toward the end is one of the greatest highs and getting passed
by people sucks my ass. So I'm shooting for the 3 hr. 42 min time. Anything better will be awesome,
plus my only previous marathon time was a 4:13 last year.

Tom

"Donovan Rebbechi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

results. I'm still hoping for a 3:40, (but in the back of my mind I

want a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3:30).

The desires in the back of ones mind can be very dangerous things. Having poorly defined goals is
a recipe for trouble, IMO. It certainly caused me

some

Quoted message said:

trouble in my 4 miler (where I failed to drop back after a fast start,

because

Quoted message said:

I was on pace for the faster of my two goals) and probably caused Global

some

Quoted message said:

trouble in his marathon. In my case, allowing myself to chase the more ambitious of my two goals
cost me both of them.

Half way is too early to make substantial and spontaneous revisions to

goals,

Quoted message said:

especially in long and unfamiliar races. Getting a 3:30 after running the

first

Quoted message said:

half at 3:40 pace would require you to speed up by about 45 seconds per

mile.

Quoted message said:

In Daniels Running Formula, Jack Daniels says run the first 3/4 of the

race

Quoted message said:

with your head and the last 1/4 with your heart. This advice has served me

well

Quoted message said:

on those occasions that I've heeded it.

So I recommend that you choose one and only one goal prior to the race,

and

Quoted message said:

avoid getting distracted by the back of your mind.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗