Marion Jones B sample negative for EPO

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

Aren't you the comedian! No, if [censored] Pound says anything,
he will say how this shows the fairness and due process
of the Anti-Doping Crusade, neglecting to mention his
previous excommunication of the heretic Jones.

Later, his consigliere will have the head of the lab
taken out and shot.

Ben

On 9/6/06 8:11 PM, in article
[email hidden], "Tom_A"

Quoted message said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

No [censored]........

Where are all the crackpots who said the test was always right??

This will probably help the public perception of Floyd Landis slightly.
Here's my questions:

- Is there any difference between A and B samples? i.e. are they
collected at the same time?

- If A sample is positive and B sample is negative, why is the athlete
cleared? Maybe the B test was inaccurate.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

She should let us all know what's the regime that beat the test! 😉
--

Bucky said:

This will probably help the public perception of Floyd Landis slightly.
Here's my questions:

- Is there any difference between A and B samples? i.e. are they
collected at the same time?

Same sample, split into 2 parts.

Quoted message said:

- If A sample is positive and B sample is negative, why is the athlete
cleared? Maybe the B test was inaccurate.

'cuz dems da rules!

The purpose of the B test is obviously to reduce the chance that a
false positive in the first test will unduly "convict" an athlete. Of
course, those rules were written at a time when the testers actually
considered there may BE false positives...

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bucky said:

This will probably help the public perception of Floyd Landis slightly.
Here's my questions:

- Is there any difference between A and B samples? i.e. are they
collected at the same time?

Yes, from the same collection sample.

Quoted message said:

- If A sample is positive and B sample is negative, why is the athlete
cleared? Maybe the B test was inaccurate.

To give athlete the benefit of the doubt. The testing on Sample A may be
wrong, and then again, Sample B test may also be wrong.

The hard part is to establish the cut off point for positive and
negative results. Obviously it's based on probability as all biological
tests. So if you are good and keep that whatever level on the border,
then you may easily get a split result b/n the two samples.
--

Quoted message said:

Later, his consigliere will have the head of the lab
taken out and shot.

Does Putin's old company give correspondence courses ?

in message <[email hidden]>, Bucky

(') said:

This will probably help the public perception of Floyd Landis slightly.
Here's my questions:

- Is there any difference between A and B samples? i.e. are they
collected at the same time?

Yes. You pee into one single container, and then some of the content is
poured into each of two containers, which are immediately sealed; these
are the 'A' and 'B' samples. They should be identical, since they came
out of the same pot.

Quoted message said:

- If A sample is positive and B sample is negative, why is the athlete
cleared? Maybe the B test was inaccurate.

One of the tests has to have been inaccurate, because the samples should
be identical. If one of the tests is inaccurate, the athlete gets the
benefit of the doubt.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; not so much a refugee from reality, more a bogus
;; asylum seeker

I also found this disturbing. I have read that not keeping the samples
refrigerated properly will result in the hormone ratios being skewed
and causing a false positive, but I am at a loss to explain why the A
and B samples came out differently. Perhaps the tests are
hypersensitive.

Just to be Devil's Advocate, statistically there is a very small chance
that the second test is wrong, but to prove something with 100%
certainty would require a "C" sample, then a "D" sample to check the
"C" sample, ad infinidem.

RL

Bucky said:

This will probably help the public perception of Floyd Landis slightly.
Here's my questions:

- Is there any difference between A and B samples? i.e. are they
collected at the same time?

- If A sample is positive and B sample is negative, why is the athlete
cleared? Maybe the B test was inaccurate.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

Aren't you the comedian! No, if [censored] Pound says anything,
he will say how this shows the fairness and due process
of the Anti-Doping Crusade, neglecting to mention his
previous excommunication of the heretic Jones.

It does show that one aspect of the system works. Whether or no Jones runs
clean is still a very open question in the minds of many.

Quoted message said:

Later, his consigliere will have the head of the lab
taken out and shot.

Ben

"Tom_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

To state the obvious, the EPO tests are different from the testosterone
tests.

JessicaG said:

"Tom_A" wrote

Quoted message said:

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

To state the obvious, the EPO tests are different from the testosterone
tests.

Right. The testosterone tests are unassailable.

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

That made me realize another reason to have a different lab doing the
test on the B sample. If the same lab comes up with 2 different results
it makes them look incompetent. There's tremendous pressure on the lab
never to have 2 different results or they may lose their contract.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So much for "unassailable" tests...

That made me realize another reason to have a different lab doing the
test on the B sample. If the same lab comes up with 2 different results
it makes them look incompetent. There's tremendous pressure on the lab
never to have 2 different results or they may lose their contract.

That may not be too far from reality...

Bruce

B. Lafferty said:

It does show that one aspect of the system works.

"Well," said my sister, "at least now we know the airbags work."

JessicaG said:

"Tom_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

To state the obvious, the EPO tests are different from the testosterone
tests.

You're right...the EPO tests can actually detect (rather than merely
just infer) the presence of the synthetic version of the chemical.

My "unassailable" comment was also directed at P-Dicky's statements
about the validity of the *experimental* version of the EPO test used
on the '99 TDF samples.

Quoted message said:

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

That made me realize another reason to have a different lab doing the
test on the B sample. If the same lab comes up with 2 different results
it makes them look incompetent.

How's this for irony?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16926300&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_docsum

(I was just going to post that Catlin was recently quoted about the
Landis situation as saying something to the effect that "I can't recall
the last time we had an A sample that was non-negative followed by a B
sample that wasn't." However, when I did a quick PubMed search to make
certain I was spelling his name correctly, I came across the above
article.)

Andy Coggan

Tom_A said:

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15455119.htm

So much for "unassailable" tests...

Do you think Dicky P. will apologize?

Of course not. More likely, he'll point-out something along the lines
of the high standard required to produce what they call a positive
result, and that her b-sample was probably not 100% "clean" either.
Not-guilty versus innocent.

What we do not see, are the cases where it is likely that a doper has
been discovered, but their A-sample just missed the numbers required
for a positive. I'll bet that there has been a lot of near-miss
situations

Quoted message said:

(I was just going to post that Catlin was recently quoted about the
Landis situation as saying something to the effect that "I can't recall
the last time we had an A sample that was non-negative followed by a B
sample that wasn't." However, when I did a quick PubMed search to make
certain I was spelling his name correctly, I came across the above
article.)

guidi (phonak) recently dodged a bullet when his A sample was non-neg.
for EPO but the B sample came back clear.