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Mark MD - discussion

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
19 March 2004
Last activity
22 March 2004
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tobyjones
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  1. From: "Mark" <[email hidden]>
    Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:01 AM
    Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Let's get back to discussing alt-med and leave the
    bigotry and nonsense behind.

    Ok.. Is there any alt therapy that you use or have ever
    tried and found, at least not tooo bad? Anything you
    would ever recommend, as a Doc to a patient?

    (What kind of Doc are you?)

    I'm a pediatrician. I don't personally use that many
    interventional therapies at all, alt or conventional. I
    meditate a little and I like green tea, but I'll also take
    ibuprofen on occasion if I have a headache. I'm open to
    the idea of going to a chiro, but so far my back isn't
    giving me any problems.

    I use aspirin/disprin sometimes, don't need them often;
    a sound sleep works well. Some herb teas: lemon,
    ginger, ginko.

    Quoted message said:

    I have recommended alfalfa tea to breast-feeding Moms
    when their milk supply seems inadequate to meet the
    baby's needs. In my experience with this, it seems to
    have about a 50% success rate (bearing in mind that in
    this series, my n=2)

    If I find info on other things for that, I'll post them.

    Quoted message said:

    Contrary to what others might say, I'm not part of Big
    Pharma, I don't have a vested interest in maintaining the
    status quo, I don't get a big fat check for suppressing
    secret miracle cures...

    ...I'm interested in what works. If Hulda Clark were to
    ever subject her methods to genuine scrutiny, and if
    such scrutiny upheld her claims, I'd be the first to
    say Hooray.

    The problem people like me have is that so much of "alt
    med" is visciously antagonistic toward anyone who
    questions their methods or efficacy. A conversation might
    start innocently enough with a query about St John's Wort,
    for example, but it can quickly spiral away from SJW and
    become a slugfest with religion, ethnicity and all sorts
    of other nonsense thrown in. And the antagonism comes from
    both sides, too.

    Yeah. Pity, that.

    Quoted message said:

    What's your experience with alt med been like?

    I had to start thinking about it from when I was a kid, as
    my own mother was sick a lot, and none of the conv stuff
    worked for her.

    So we were all put on strict diets and so on. And were
    largely kept off meds, if it could ever be avoided. And she
    grew her own veggies, but they weren't pesticide free. In
    fact, she used DDT regularly. She read up on the different
    alt things that were around way back when, mostly diet-
    related. So, I was sort of always thinking about it.

    I like the idea of using gentler, subtler, non-harm causing
    ways wherever possible, even if others call it all placebo.

    I think our entire environment can affect our health, from
    the colours, forms and sounds around us to the presence of
    others. They can affect our moods, emotions, thoughts, and
    other aspects of our health as well.

    Is that what you meant?

    Doesn't mean I endorse all "alt", - not at all. There are
    rogues and crazy people all over..

    tj

  2. From: "Mark" <[email hidden]>
    Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:01 AM
    Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay

    Quoted message said:


    What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant bugs
    and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of the more
    valuable contributions could be in the realm of natural
    antibiotics. For example garlic, certain honeys, olive leaf
    extract, lemon (I think), and some others - herbs such as
    oregano iirc.

    --
    "It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is
    both incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is
    interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet
    paper." R. Serling

  3. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Mark" <[email hidden]> Sent: Friday, March
    19, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay

    Quoted message said:


    What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant bugs
    and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of the more
    valuable contributions could be in the realm of natural
    antibiotics. For example garlic, certain honeys, olive leaf
    extract, lemon (I think), and some others - herbs such as
    oregano iirc.

    If bacteria can become resistant to prescription
    antibiotics (and they can), they can just as easily become
    resistant to "natural" antibiotics (and they will, if the
    stuff becomes widely used, and overused). This is one of
    the things that irritates me about the colloidal silver
    pushers -- their idiotic claim that bacteria and viruses
    can't become resistant to silver. Oh yes they can, and it's
    been observed.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  4. (David Wright) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Mark" <[email hidden]> Sent: Friday, March
    19, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay

    Quoted message said:


    What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant bugs
    and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of the
    more valuable contributions could be in the realm of
    natural antibiotics. For example garlic, certain honeys,
    olive leaf extract, lemon (I think), and some others -
    herbs such as oregano iirc.

    If bacteria can become resistant to prescription
    antibiotics (and they can), they can just as easily become
    resistant to "natural" antibiotics

    Why do you assume that? What do you base it on?

    --
    "I happen to think that the singular evil of our time is
    prejudice. It is from this evil that all other evils grow
    and multiply." R. Serling

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    (David Wright) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Mark" <[email hidden]> Sent: Friday,
    March 19, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Tobyjones
    looks okay
    >
    > What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant
    bugs and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of
    the more valuable contributions could be in the realm
    of natural antibiotics. For example garlic, certain
    honeys, olive leaf extract, lemon (I think), and some
    others - herbs such as oregano iirc.

    If bacteria can become resistant to prescription
    antibiotics (and they can), they can just as easily
    become resistant to "natural" antibiotics

    Why do you assume that? What do you base it on?


    Probably the fact that penicillin is a natural antibiotic
    (originally) and you now get penicillin resistant bacteria.
    This was one example only, but it should be enough to show
    it can happen.

    --
    "The emperor is naked!"
    "No he isn't, he's merely endorsing a clothing-optional lifestyle!"

    to email me
    Please remove "all your clothes"

    Doug

  6. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Everybody ADORES Ilsa9 said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Mark" <[email hidden]> Sent: Friday, March
    19, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay
    >
    > What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant bugs
    and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of the
    more valuable contributions could be in the realm of
    natural antibiotics. For example garlic, certain honeys,
    olive leaf extract, lemon (I think), and some others -
    herbs such as oregano iirc.

    If bacteria can become resistant to prescription
    antibiotics (and they can), they can just as easily become
    resistant to "natural" antibiotics (and they will, if the
    stuff becomes widely used, and overused). This is one of
    the things that irritates me about the colloidal silver
    pushers -- their idiotic claim that bacteria and viruses
    can't become resistant to silver. Oh yes they can, and
    it's been observed.

    -- David Wright :

    I may be mistaken, but I think UV light is something they
    don't become resistent to.

    In high enough doses, maybe not. But unless you get into
    every nook and cranny, any tiny little shaded spot may be
    enough to allow the bacteria to survive until the UV light
    is taken away. After all, you can't leave a powerful UV
    source going 24/7 in a public place unless you want to fry
    and blind the public. (And maybe you do. But I don't.)

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    (David Wright) said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    From: "Mark" <[email hidden]> Sent: Friday, March
    19, 2004 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Tobyjones looks okay
    >
    > What's your experience with alt med been like?

    Given the increasing numbers of antibiotic-resistant
    bugs and other problems to do with antibiotics, one of
    the more valuable contributions could be in the realm of
    natural antibiotics. For example garlic, certain honeys,
    olive leaf extract, lemon (I think), and some others -
    herbs such as oregano iirc.

    If bacteria can become resistant to prescription
    antibiotics (and they can), they can just as easily
    become resistant to "natural" antibiotics

    Why do you assume that? What do you base it on?

    Evolutionary necessity. The survivors survive and continue
    to reproduce in larger numbers. Shucks, that stuff they
    put in "anti-bacterial" soaps? They used to think that
    bacteria couldn't become resistant to it. Turns out they
    can, and have.

    There's nothing magic about "natural" substances. You put
    stress on a species, and it either adapts or dies out. There
    are algae that live in the hot springs in Yellowstone Park.
    There are bacteria that do just fine under a radioactive
    bombardment that would kill many other varieties almsot
    instantly.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Uniquely Ilsa9.00a1 said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    Everybody ADORES Ilsa9 <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I may be mistaken, but I think UV light is something they
    don't become resistent to.

    In high enough doses, maybe not. But unless you get into
    every nook and cranny, any tiny little shaded spot may be
    enough to allow the bacteria to survive until the UV light
    is taken away.

    Will the surviving bacteria (that includes those not
    exposed as well as those exposed to sub-lethal doses)
    develope resistence?

    I should think so. I don't know if it's been tried. The most
    obvious mutation to appear would be some sort of opacity of
    the cell membrane. Might take a while to show up, but no
    doubt something would eventually. Nature is endlessly
    inventive.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    After all, you can't leave a powerful UV source going
    24/7 in a public place unless you want to fry and blind
    the public.

    I believe the Japanese use high power UV in the public
    transit when

    Quoted message said:

    not in use (generally overnight).

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not arguing that this is a bad idea.
    I'm just saying that no solution is perfect.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  9. [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Uniquely Ilsa9.00a1 said:
    Quoted message said:

    In article <20040320115104.20936.00000080@mb-
    m27.aol.com>, Everybody ADORES Ilsa9
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >I may be mistaken, but I think UV light is something
    >they don't become resistent to.

    In high enough doses, maybe not. But unless you get into
    every nook and cranny, any tiny little shaded spot may
    be enough to allow the bacteria to survive until the UV
    light is taken away.

    I was curious about a toothbrush & razor sanitizer I saw in
    a catlogue that claimed 60 seconds of exposure to the UV
    light killed bacteria on the items placed into the
    sanitizer. The IDEA sounded great (considering the germs
    growing on one's toothbrush -- eeewww), but I wondered if
    such a short time of exposure would do anything but
    encourage the growth of stronger bacteria? Is there any
    exposure time considered effective for such sanitization?
    Are there different "strengths" of UV light that might make
    a difference?

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michele said:

    [email hidden] (David Wright) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <20040320181700.09903.00000079@mb-
    m05.aol.com>, Uniquely Ilsa9.00a1

    Quoted message said:

    >In article <20040320115104.20936.00000080@mb-
    >m27.aol.com>, Everybody ADORES Ilsa9
    ><[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    >>I may be mistaken, but I think UV light is something
    >>they don't become resistent to.
    >
    >In high enough doses, maybe not. But unless you get
    >into every nook and cranny, any tiny little shaded spot
    >may be enough to allow the bacteria to survive until
    >the UV light is taken away.

    I was curious about a toothbrush & razor sanitizer I saw in
    a catlogue that claimed 60 seconds of exposure to the UV
    light killed bacteria on the items placed into the
    sanitizer. The IDEA sounded great (considering the germs
    growing on one's toothbrush -- eeewww), but I wondered if
    such a short time of exposure would do anything but
    encourage the growth of stronger bacteria? Is there any
    exposure time considered effective for such sanitization?
    Are there different "strengths" of UV light that might make
    a difference?

    Well, there are different frequencies, and of course it's
    just light, so it could be brighter or dimmer. I have no
    idea what the dose- response curve would be for sanitizing.
    With a bright enough light, 60 seconds would be plenty.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
    opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
    have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
    standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

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