Masking agents??

No masking agents are needed for daily EPO micro dosing. NONE

Masking agents are NOT requires for most illegal drugs. The WADA/UCI/IOC tests are weak.

Note that no track sprinters have been busted in Osaca Japan---and they are jacked up to the moon. No endurance-based runners either.

Testing is a big PR joke.

zkahlina said:

[font=Times New Roman]O.K. so everybody is on EPO and other drugs. There are a lot of discussions about doping everywhere, but I noticed nobody question why they were not caught when tested before? I am sure T. Hamilton was on drugs for a period of time (and not only Hamilton) in which he was tested several times, and nothing was found. Than suddenly one time he is positive! Did he make a mistake? What went wrong?[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]I know for the existence of the masking agents. So my question is what are they taking/doing to mask EPO and other illegal stuff so they don’t get caught every time?[/font]

😕

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Testing is a big PR joke.

[font=Times New Roman]I agree with you.. but on this forum I am still searching for the techniques to avoid getting caught when using drugs. I would like to hear from cyclists to provide the detailed descriptions of how amphetamines, cortisone, testosterone and EPO are/were used, together with the techniques to avoid getting caught.😕 [/font]

Nike endorsement masks all appearances of cheating, doping, fixing, lying, philandering, or dog fighting.

Get a sponsorship exemption and quit worrying about a 1% chance of a bust.

eg: The California Tour of Amgen does ZERO drug testing.

Don't test, don't tell

zkahlina said:

[font=Times New Roman]I agree with you.. but on this forum I am still searching for the techniques to avoid getting caught when using drugs. I would like to hear from cyclists to provide the detailed descriptions of how amphetamines, cortisone, testosterone and EPO are/were used, together with the techniques to avoid getting caught.😕 [/font]

zkahlina said:

[font=Times New Roman]I agree with you.. but on this forum I am still searching for the techniques to avoid getting caught when using drugs. I would like to hear from cyclists to provide the detailed descriptions of how amphetamines, cortisone, testosterone and EPO are/were used, together with the techniques to avoid getting caught.😕 [/font]

You're not going to find that kind of info on cyclingforums.com.
if Nike refuses to endorse you or your dog look on an american college football forum.

zigoat said:

You're not going to find that kind of info on cyclingforums.com.
if Nike refuses to endorse you or your dog look on an american college football forum.

[font=Times New Roman]No, no, this is not for me. I was not clear enough and of course I was misunderstood. My mistake. I am not a bike racer any more, and I am not looking for this information, because I need to hide my doping efforts! I ride the bike just for pleasure these days. If we go back to my original note and a question you might better understand why I am asking this. They all go to a doctor so and so, and are on a program for the full year. They start big races already “loaded”, so that they are ready for it. They are tested several times during the race, and than one day they are positive. How come they were not positive two days ago, when tested last time? So, to me they were taking some masking agents two days ago, and every thing was fine, Today it was not, and they were caught.. am I right? Let's talk about the techniques. How are they doing it and staying clean for the time?😕 [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Continued..[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]For example M. Pantani started the Giro in very good shape. He was flying over the mountains for many stages. And than in one stage (I think it was stage 19?) after previously winning two stages, early in the morning he was tested and.. bingo! He was positive! Why they couldn’t discover this in previous stages, after his wins? He was obviously under the allowed 50% than! EPO is traceable and they should found it. I don’t think he took EPO just on that (last) day. He came to Giro already on some doctor’s program.. The same question applies to Ullrich and his Giro TT stage win. Remember, he won that stage, and was tested, but he was O.K. This year at Giro though, De Luca, Mazzoleni, Simone, Ricco and Piepolli were obviously on “something” for the whole race. Wasn’t that obvious? And nobody was caught. Nothing! How is that possible? 🙄 [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]And back to my original question, what are they doing to stay “clean”? How are they masking EPO and other “stuff” so they were not caught? [/font]

You just do NOT grasp reality, eh?

Marco Pantani NEVER flunked an EPO-specific test. He failed an hct health test in 1999. I was there at the time.

1) Very few athletes are ever tested in competition
2) few to zero are tested outside competition
3) the tests are designed so that a doped athletes can pass
4) most drugs are NEVER creened for, therefore NO MASKING is needed
5) athletes are given ample notice and time to run an saline IV and diruretic
6) athletes are NEVER tested BEFORE their event (when amphetamines are high)

No testing for these drugs:
insulin
hGH
eGH
IGF
most corticoids
cow blood
human blood from yourself
testosterone
female hormones

Lance Pharmstrong, Jan Ulrich and Michael Rasmussen never failed cow blood tests either. Yet Frankenstein blood boosting made them all TDF freaks.

zkahlina said:

[font=Times New Roman]Continued..[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]For example M. Pantani started the Giro in very good shape. He was flying over the mountains for many stages. And than in one stage (I think it was stage 19?) after previously winning two stages, early in the morning he was tested and.. bingo! He was positive! Why they couldn’t discover this in previous stages, after his wins? He was obviously under the allowed 50% than! EPO is traceable and they should found it. I don’t think he took EPO just on that (last) day. He came to Giro already on some doctor’s program.. The same question applies to Ullrich and his Giro TT stage win. Remember, he won that stage, and was tested, but he was O.K. This year at Giro though, De Luca, Mazzoleni, Simone, Ricco and Piepolli were obviously on “something” for the whole race. Wasn’t that obvious? And nobody was caught. Nothing! How is that possible? 🙄 [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]And back to my original question, what are they doing to stay “clean”? How are they masking EPO and other “stuff” so they were not caught? [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]You sound very knowledgeable, so thanks for the posting here. I admit, I am mixing EPO-specific test and an hct health test.. but you are saying that there is no test for your own blood? Tyler Hamilton tested positive for a blood transfusion in 2002, the same year he won an Olympic gold medal. This year, Alexander Vinokourov, one of the race favorites, tested positive for the same infraction. Did they get someone else’s blood or their own blood transfusion?[/font]

[font=Times New Roman] [/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Doping in cycling has evolved from simple methods, like using alcohol or amphetamines on a tough ride, to more innovative ways of enhancing performance, like the use of bovine hemoglobin - a derivative of cow's blood - which would give the rider more oxygen for taxing stages of a race. This thing about cow’s blood is news to me. Do you know more about it? Do you thing this is what LA, Ullrich and Rasmussen were using?[/font]

Blood tranfusions have been used by endurance athletes for 20-30 years. Not clear when the first cheater tried it. They were NOT declared illegal until after a Rolling Stone article disclosing the infamous blood doping of the USA Cycling Team at the Ramada Inn in Carson, went publc after the 1984 Olympic Games.

Only then--in response to public relations did the IOC ban blood transfusion, blood packing, and the like---w/o any testing methods whatsoever. (so they were still permitted unofficially)

There has NEVER been a test designed for transfusing your own blood. Probably can't be.

Tyler Hamilton must have used a shared centrifuge and mixed his blood with a Phonak teammate--and was just unlucky after having been red carded (warned) many times already in 2004 (Tour of Romandie). Think of all the times he cheated and got away with it.

Cow blood (red cells) look much the same as human--so I am uncertain how/why nobody has ever been busted for using Actovegin (Nike Lance), Hemopure (Michael Rasmussen) or Polyheme (yet unknown users)

There is little motivation and money (legal funds) to nail a winner--who is also heavily endorsed and well funded. We still have not DQed Roid Landis and it has been over one year. Ian Thorpe just got cleared for exogenous testosterone and female hormones---same as sanctioned Stephen Alfred.

Even little the names take forever to bust. (Stephen Alfred) busted in May 2006 but not sanctioned (Lifetime lowered to 8 years) until post season in winter.

Doping in sport is life science. Grand Tour Racing is all about steroids, cortisone, amphetamines, chemo boosters RSR-13, Interleukins, insulin, peptide hormones, thyriod drugs, asthma, and blood boosting. If cows help, they use them.

Go to the sources of synthetic hemoglobins:
biopure.combiopure.comOpen ↗ Hemopure & Oxyglobin

northfieldlabs.comnorthfieldlabs.comOpen ↗ PolyHeme

The IOC wants/demands doped sports. The TV Networks need the newer records, faster times, and entertainment freakiness. WADA is pure PR.

zkahlina said:

[font=Times New Roman]You sound very knowledgeable, so thanks for the posting here. I admit, I am mixing EPO-specific test and an hct health test.. but you are saying that there is no test for your own blood? Tyler Hamilton tested positive for a blood transfusion in 2002, the same year he won an Olympic gold medal. This year, Alexander Vinokourov, one of the race favorites, tested positive for the same infraction. Did they get someone else’s blood or their own blood transfusion?[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]Doping in cycling has evolved from simple methods, like using alcohol or amphetamines on a tough ride, to more innovative ways of enhancing performance, like the use of bovine hemoglobin - a derivative of cow's blood - which would give the rider more oxygen for taxing stages of a race. This thing about cow’s blood is news to me. Do you know more about it? Do you thing this is what LA, Ullrich and Rasmussen were using?[/font]

HA HA " roid landis " thats a good one, I hope you don't mine if I steal that one from you.
I think the only people who know the exact procedures for beating the dope tests are the athletes, their trainers and team doctors. I dont expect them to be on internet forums telling the competition their secrets.

zigoat said:

HA HA " roid landis " thats a good one, I hope you don't mine if I steal that one from you.
I think the only people who know the exact procedures for beating the dope tests are the athletes, their trainers and team doctors. I dont expect them to be on internet forums telling the competition their secrets.

Yeah, sure, whatever you say.

I guess that leaves Roid Landis out there alone--with Stephen Alfred, David Fuentes, Tammy Thomas, Adam Bergman, Lance Pharmstrong, Roberto Heras, Benoit Joachim, Tyler Hamilton, Mauel Beltran--all of whom flunked drug tests.

A Nike endorsement remains the only fool proof doping mask.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

Nike endorsement masks all appearances of cheating, doping, fixing, lying, philandering, or dog fighting.

Get a sponsorship exemption and quit worrying about a 1% chance of a bust.

eg: The California Tour of Amgen does ZERO drug testing.

Don't test, don't tell

Hein-Vebruggen;

I agree to a point, especially when discussing doipng in American sports. By cycling standards, baseball had more than enough evidence to ban Barry Bonds. Currently, there is a growing HGH scandal. Rodney Harrison, a professional football player, recieved a 5-game suspension. If he was a cyclist, at his age his career would be over. Rick Ankiel, baseball's new feel-good story, was also implicated in the HGH scandal and has yet to be punished.

For the good or bad, at least cycling in Europe makes some attempt to cull cheaters. Could they do better, yes. Much better.

I could NOT disagree more. Cycling has taked NO ACTION whatsoever to stop cheating, doping or corruption. None, zippo. Only pretext.

Lance Pharmstrong has been saved by Nike and US media lusting after advertising revenues. Jan Ulrich still lives in cowardly denial.

Doped Cyclists very rarely get sacked.

NFL football, college football or EPO/Actovegin/insulin Lance---not much difference.

john979 said:

Hein-Vebruggen;

I agree to a point, especially when discussing doipng in American sports. By cycling standards, baseball had more than enough evidence to ban Barry Bonds. Currently, there is a growing HGH scandal. Rodney Harrison, a professional football player, recieved a 5-game suspension. If he was a cyclist, at his age his career would be over. Rick Ankiel, baseball's new feel-good story, was also implicated in the HGH scandal and has yet to be punished.

For the good or bad, at least cycling in Europe makes some attempt to cull cheaters. Could they do better, yes. Much better.

Hein-Verbruggen said:

I could NOT disagree more. Cycling has taked NO ACTION whatsoever to stop cheating, doping or corruption. None, zippo. Only pretext.

Lance Pharmstrong has been saved by Nike and US media lusting after advertising revenues. Jan Ulrich still lives in cowardly denial.

Doped Cyclists very rarely get sacked.

NFL football, college football or EPO/Actovegin/insulin Lance---not much difference.

We must read different newspapers. Landis? Ullrich, Basso et al not ebing allowed to start last year's Tour, with Basso ultimately coming clean and under suspension. Rasmussen thrown out of this year's Tour because of his "location" issues. Astana's Vinokourov and Kashakin expelled for blood doping?

What about Hamilton and his team in the Vuelta caught and under suspension for blood doping? What about Heras caught for EPO in the Vuelta and expelled while leading?

I can go on with many more names caught doping over the last couple years. Before yes, I agree cycling did not much to catch dopers -- now cycling, while still far from perfect, is better than any other sport at catching doping.

If you rely upon federal police to enforce UCI/IOC/WADA rules, w/o any sanctions then you are reading the Nike media scripted tales of woe.

Roid Landis: No sanctions
Michael Rassmussen: No sanctions
Lance Pharmstrong: No sanctions
Frankie Andreu: No sanctions
Jan Ulrich: No sanctions
Rolf Aldag: No sanctions, still a TM mgr.
T-Mobile: No sanctions
Bjarne Riis: No sanction, and still CSC equity owner & mgr
Erik Zabel: No sanction
Ivan Basso: Italian sanction, w/o any admission of guilt
Elisa Basso: No sanctions (Operation Athena)
Johan Museeuw: No sanction, still a Quick Step mgr.
Danilo DiLuca: No sanctions
Eddy Mazzolini: No sanctions (Operation Athena & Roche Pharma)

Pretty much the same doping apology story as in Disney-ESPN's MLB, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Baroid Bonds, Gary Sheffield, Mark McGwire, Bobby Estelella, Armando Rios, Orlando Cepeda, Esteban Loaiza, Josh Hancock (now dead), Tony LaRussa.

ESPN/MLB has taked NO ACTION and neither has the UCI.

Better read that media news more carefully. You glossed over the underlying fact: dopers must stay in TV sport.

john979 said:

We must read different newspapers. Landis? Ullrich, Basso et al not ebing allowed to start last year's Tour, with Basso ultimately coming clean and under suspension. Rasmussen thrown out of this year's Tour because of his "location" issues. Astana's Vinokourov and Kashakin expelled for blood doping?

What about Hamilton and his team in the Vuelta caught and under suspension for blood doping? What about Heras caught for EPO in the Vuelta and expelled while leading?

I can go on with many more names caught doping over the last couple years. Before yes, I agree cycling did not much to catch dopers -- now cycling, while still far from perfect, is better than any other sport at catching doping.

[quote="zkahlina"][font=Times New Roman]Continued..[/font]

[font=Times New Roman]For example M. Pantani started the Giro in very good shape. He was flying over the mountains for many stages. And than in one stage (I think it was stage 19?) after previously winning two stages, early in the morning he was tested and.. bingo! He was positive! Why they couldn’t discover this in previous stages, after his wins? He was obviously under the allowed 50% than! EPO is traceable and they should found it. I don’t think he took EPO just on that (last) day. He came to Giro already on some doctor’s program.. The same question applies to Ullrich and his Giro TT stage win. Remember, he won that stage, and was tested, but he was O.K. This year at Giro though, De Luca, Mazzoleni, Simone, Ricco and Piepolli were obviously on “something” for the whole race. Wasn’t that obvious? And nobody was caught. Nothing! How is that possible? 🙄 [/font][font=Verdana][/QUOTE][/font]

[font=Verdana]Just to keep this discussion alive.. this is what I’m talking about:[/font]

[font=Verdana]Italian Riccardo Riccò confessed to taking EPO to the Italian Olympic Committee (CONI) prosecutor, Ettore Torri on Wednesday. Riccò tested positive for the drug following stage four of the Tour de France, forcing his team to pull its entire squad from the race. [/font]

[font=Verdana]Riccò has withdrawn his request to have a counter-analysis done on the B-sample, but said that the testing procedure needed some work. "Of the 10 controls taken, only two were positive. In theory all the tests should have been positive, therefore the method needs to be checked," he said.[/font]

[font=Verdana] [/font]

[font=Verdana]A year later from posting my question on this forum, what has changed? Only the actors! New names are caught this year, but the methods of using masking agents are the same. With all due respect to all of you who envolved in discussions here, nobody believes in masking agents.[/font]

[font=Verdana] [/font]

[font=Verdana]I think that riders are always one step ahead of control techniques and with the help from their team doctors they know how to “not test positive” for EPO or other drugs.[/font]

[font=Verdana] [/font]

[font=Verdana]I just don’t know how they are doing it![/font]

[font=Times New Roman]And back to my original question, what are they doing to stay “clean”? How are they masking EPO and other “stuff” so they were not caught? [/font]

[font=Helv]Look carefully at this picture.



So... what is under the Ballan's shorts?? Look at his left leg!
Is this a masking agent pill to be taken immediately after crossing the finish line? Or is it something else?

Is it just me or nobody else is seeing this?

[/font]

Yes

With a drug such as EPO, if you calculate your doses and constantly monitor your RBC count, chances are slim you will get caught. At small doses, EPO works similar to training at altitude (increasing RBC count). The problem is that there is a fine line bw using EPO at a small enough dosage to not get caught but enough to "help" you, using just too much that it is detectable but still "helpful", and then using too much that it actually hurts you. Too high a RBC count will increase your blood viscosity to the point where flow is compromised, hindering in O2 delivery