Mavic CrossMax SL freehub mystery problem

toolguy said:

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz
last July. They've had a few months worth of riding and
then hung up for the winter. I took the bike down a few
weeks ago for it's first spring ride and the rear wheel
had seized. With a little effort (pedaling) the wheel
loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the
mountains. The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at
higher speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high
pitched death scream that made me think the wheel was
going to explode. When this happened it felt like I was
hitting the brakes hard. I thought it was the bearing but
if I pedalled the noise and friction would stop. Scary.

I am a mechanic from my younger days but I have never
pulled apart the Mavic hub and didn't know the process
or if I needed special tools. So I took the wheel into
my favorite mechanic. I told him the story and together
we pulled it apart. We inspected the freehub first. Very
simple really and it looked perfect. He lubed it a bit
and we moved on. We pulled out the left bearing (non-
drive side) and it was toast. Mavic used a one-sided
sealed bearing and water had gotten past it's defences.
The bearing was full of [censored] and rust. He didn't have
the right size replacement so he rebuilt it as best as
possible and I wrote down the numbers and ordered a new
one. The new one is a double sided SKF. After that came
in, I installed it. Everything should be good now,
right? Wrong!

On a ride on Saturday it was fine. On Sunday's ride it was
screaming it's death wale everytime I stopped pedalling!
By the end of the ride it was making this noise along with
the associated friction at speed's as low as 10 km/hr. I
pulled the hub apart last night to have another look at
the freehub. I looks fine. There is nothing to indicate a
problem. The palls look like they may have some wear on
the ends but this may be my memory failing. I cleaned them
and removed a little grease as they seemed a little gummy.
I put the whole unit back together very confused as to
what is causing this problem. I went for a short test spin
down the road afterwards and I have no noise up to 30
km/hr. I don't trust that the problem is fixed though. Any
ideas on what is causing this problem?

I had the exact same problem with my Crossmax XL rear wheel.
The noise went away after the shop "cleaned up" the hub a
bit, but the owner/salesman/mechanic says I'll need a new
bearing. (I still get "freewheeling", where the cranks keep
turning when the wheel rotates fast; AND the wheel moves
backwards when I backpedal in the stand, too.)

I've been less than thrilled with these wheels. First I
popped a rear spoke (didn't break, so was able to pop it
back in). Then I've had the bearing problems -- drag first
and then the death squeal. Finally, the FRONT hub started
seizing up a bit; then it basically came apart with no tools
involved (the plastic bearing adjuster is a pathetic joke).
I got it back together with my hands only, and a small point-
punch to hold the adjusting disc in place since the plastic
tool disintegrated. Front seems OK now, but could come apart
again it seems...

The guy who sold 'em to me says I need to avoid water
crossings (very rare here in San Diego), but all my friends
blast thru the few we encounter seemingly with impunity. I'm
glad he's willing to replace the bearing(s), but wheels this
expensive shouldn't be so delicate. (Not MOUNTAIN biking
wheels, anyway.)

Good news is, they're easy to service.

Bad news is, they're gonna need it!

Bill "not a Mavic (hubs at least) fan" S.

(toolguy) said:

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz
last July. They've had a few months worth of riding and
then hung up for the winter. I took the bike down a few
weeks ago for it's first spring ride and the rear wheel had
seized. With a little effort (pedaling) the wheel loosened
up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set for a ride
so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the mountains.
The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher
speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched
death scream that made me think the wheel was going to
explode. When this happened it felt like I was hitting the
brakes hard. I thought it was the bearing but if I pedalled
the noise and friction would stop. Scary.

I am a mechanic from my younger days but I have never
pulled apart the Mavic hub and didn't know the process or
if I needed special tools. So I took the wheel into my
favorite mechanic. I told him the story and together we
pulled it apart. We inspected the freehub first. Very
simple really and it looked perfect. He lubed it a bit and
we moved on. We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive
side) and it was toast. Mavic used a one-sided sealed
bearing and water had gotten past it's defences. The
bearing was full of [censored] and rust. He didn't have the right
size replacement so he rebuilt it as best as possible and I
wrote down the numbers and ordered a new one. The new one
is a double sided SKF. After that came in, I installed it.
Everything should be good now, right? Wrong!

On a ride on Saturday it was fine. On Sunday's ride it was
screaming it's death wale everytime I stopped pedalling! By
the end of the ride it was making this noise along with the
associated friction at speed's as low as 10 km/hr. I pulled
the hub apart last night to have another look at the
freehub. I looks fine. There is nothing to indicate a
problem. The palls look like they may have some wear on the
ends but this may be my memory failing. I cleaned them and
removed a little grease as they seemed a little gummy. I
put the whole unit back together very confused as to what
is causing this problem. I went for a short test spin down
the road afterwards and I have no noise up to 30 km/hr. I
don't trust that the problem is fixed though. Any ideas on
what is causing this problem?

TIA,

Neil

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the
bearing that you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the
parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then
move on into other nooks and crannies, making no noise on
Saturday, lots of noise Sunday, and then vanishing again
when you take things apart and put them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when
I'm wailing with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-[censored]

Quoted message said:

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the
bearing that you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the
parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then
move on into other nooks and crannies, making no noise on
Saturday, lots of noise Sunday, and then vanishing again
when you take things apart and put them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when
I'm wailing with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-[censored]

Dear [censored],

Thanks for the ribbing on my typing. Deserved.

As for your comments on my hub.... I don't think it's
possible that rust or debri got into another area. The
internal hub area isn't accessible from the left bearing and
the other bearings are double sealed. As well, we cleaned
out the cavity around the bad bearing when we overhauled it.
There wasn't anything to speak of. The rust was noticable on
the outside of the bearing but everything else was internal.

Thanks,

Neil

Quoted message said:

I had the exact same problem with my Crossmax XL rear
wheel. The noise went away after the shop "cleaned up" the
hub a bit, but the owner/salesman/mechanic says I'll need
a new bearing. (I still get "freewheeling", where the
cranks keep turning when the wheel rotates fast; AND the
wheel moves backwards when I backpedal in the stand, too.)

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your comments. I agree that any expensive wheel,
especially a mountain bike wheel, should be less fragile.
Did the problem ever return after the shop cleaned them up?
Did they tell anything specific that they did?

Thanks,

Neil

(toolguy) said:

Quoted message said:

Dear Neil,

Could some of the rust and ground-off material from the
bearing that you replaced migrated elsewhere, beyond the
parts that you cleaned?

Even a few flakes or chunks can make odd noises and then
move on into other nooks and crannies, making no noise on
Saturday, lots of noise Sunday, and then vanishing again
when you take things apart and put them back together.

Or it could be that Mr. Paul was appawled.

And please, I use "Death Whale" as my stage name now when
I'm wailing with my humpback-up chorus.

Moby-[censored]

Dear [censored],

Thanks for the ribbing on my typing. Deserved.

As for your comments on my hub.... I don't think it's
possible that rust or debri got into another area. The
internal hub area isn't accessible from the left bearing
and the other bearings are double sealed. As well, we
cleaned out the cavity around the bad bearing when we
overhauled it. There wasn't anything to speak of. The rust
was noticable on the outside of the bearing but everything
else was internal.

Thanks,

Neil

Dear Neil,

With luck, your hub noise will never return. But if it was a
come-and-go noise, something must have come-and-gone.

All that I can think of is:

a) Debris like rust (or spotty lubrication) moving around

b) Ever-so-slightly different re-assembly changing
mating surfaces

If stable surfaces were shrieking because they were
unlubricated or were binding, the noise probably wouldn't
come and go from day to day:

"Oh -- well, about a year ago -- I was chopping that tree --
minding my own business -- when suddenly it started to
rain....and right in the middle of a chop, I...I rusted
solid. And I've been that way ever since."

un-official.comms wizoz.htmOpen ↗

Usually, squeaks don't improve unless something changes. The
Tin Man needed oiling.

Frank Baum

toolguy said:

Thanks for your comments. I agree that any expensive
wheel, especially a mountain bike wheel, should be less
fragile. Did the problem ever return after the shop
cleaned them up? Did they tell anything specific that
they did?

Hi Neil,

No, the "noise from hell" problem hasn't returned (yet?),
but like I said there's still some drag and "roughage".

All the guy (Ron) did was open the hub with a 10-mm, swab it
out with a Q-tip, and add some grease. But he agreed that
the bearing wasn't very smooth, and recommended replacing (I
assume under warranty, as it started well under a year since
purchase).

He also implied that I abused the wheels somehow -- that no
one else had EVER had a problem with them -- so you can bet
I'm going to show him your original post (and my initial
reply). I even started road biking last summer, so the
wheels get a lot less use than they would by a "full time"
mountain biker.

Keep us posted on what happens with your SL's!

Bill "thanks to others for /bearing/ with us" S.

toolguy said:

Hi all,

I bought a new set of CrossMax SL wheels for my Santa Cruz
last July. They've had a few months worth of riding and
then hung up for the winter. I took the bike down a few
weeks ago for it's first spring ride and the rear wheel
had seized. With a little effort (pedaling) the wheel
loosened up but I knew I had a bearing problem. I was set
for a ride so I did it anyway as it was a road ride in the
mountains. The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at
higher speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high
pitched death scream that made me think the wheel was
going to explode. -snip-

We pulled out the left bearing (non-drive side) and it was

Quoted message said:

toast.-snip-

On Sunday's ride it was screaming

Quoted message said:

it's death wale

You mention service to the left bearing. Open the right
ones? Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

A Muzi said:

toolguy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher
speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched
death scream that made me think the wheel was going to
explode. -snip-

Quoted message said:

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies! Sort of a mid-
pitched vibratory squeal that makes you think your rear end
is about to disintegrate. Shakes the frame a bit, even.

Bill "keeps others at arm's length, at least" S.

S o r n i said:

A Muzi said:

toolguy wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher
speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched
death scream that made me think the wheel was going to
explode. -snip-

Quoted message said:

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies!

And, I just got your whale of a material joke.

Bill "whoosh" S.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

toolguy said:

The wheel seemed OK but then on the descents at higher
speed (about +50 km/hr) the hub made this high pitched
death scream that made me think the wheel was going to
explode. -snip-

Quoted message said:

A Muzi said:

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

S o r n i said:

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies! Sort of a
mid-pitched vibratory squeal that makes you think your
rear end is about to disintegrate. Shakes the frame a
bit, even.

Well- wale, wail, whale, whatever.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1
April, 1971

Quoted message said:

Hi Neil,

No, the "noise from hell" problem hasn't returned (yet?),
but like I said there's still some drag and "roughage".

All the guy (Ron) did was open the hub with a 10-mm, swab
it out with a Q-tip, and add some grease. But he agreed
that the bearing wasn't very smooth, and recommended
replacing (I assume under warranty, as it started well
under a year since purchase).

He also implied that I abused the wheels somehow -- that
no one else had EVER had a problem with them -- so you can
bet I'm going to show him your original post (and my
initial reply). I even started road biking last summer, so
the wheels get a lot less use than they would by a "full
time" mountain biker.

Keep us posted on what happens with your SL's!

Bill "thanks to others for /bearing/ with us" S.

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your comments. I'll post a new thread if it the
situation comes back or I solve it somehow.

Neil

Quoted message said:

Dear Neil,

With luck, your hub noise will never return. But if it was
a come-and-go noise, something must have come-and-gone.

All that I can think of is:

a) Debris like rust (or spotty lubrication) moving around

b) Ever-so-slightly different re-assembly changing mating
surfaces

If stable surfaces were shrieking because they were
unlubricated or were binding, the noise probably wouldn't
come and go from day to day:

"Oh -- well, about a year ago -- I was chopping that tree
-- minding my own business -- when suddenly it started to
rain....and right in the middle of a chop, I...I rusted
solid. And I've been that way ever since."

un-official.comms wizoz.htmOpen ↗

Usually, squeaks don't improve unless something changes.
The Tin Man needed oiling.

Frank Baum

Hi Frank,

Thanks for your comments. You may be right. I'll pay close
attention to the details.

Neil

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies! Sort of a
mid-pitched vibratory squeal that makes you think your
rear end is about to disintegrate. Shakes the frame a
bit, even.

Bill "keeps others at arm's length, at least" S.

Bill is not kidding. This noise is definitely disturbing and
unsettling.

Neil

(toolguy) said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Death wale? Perhaps a corduroy would be less loud.

Believe me, this noise sucks big knobbies! Sort of a
mid-pitched vibratory squeal that makes you think your
rear end is about to disintegrate. Shakes the frame a
bit, even.

Bill "keeps others at arm's length, at least" S.

Bill is not kidding. This noise is definitely disturbing
and unsettling.

Neil

Dear Bill and Neil,

Even worse, disturbing and unsettling noises like this can
come from ridiculously tiny sources. Several times every
year, I get an early Monday call from yet another medical
office manager who has turned on her computer and been
greeted by an enormous noise--the usual description is that
it's "like an airplane taking off." It's not really that
bad, but I can almost always hear it in the background.

I go out and replace the power supply fan, whose spinning
shaft is imitating an angry cicada. The office managers
never seem reassured when I tell them that the noise means
that the fan is alive and well and doing its job--it's when
they're silent and motionless that things fry.

Good luck,

Carl Fogel

[FONT= times new roman]Hi:[/FONT]

[FONT= times new roman]I thought I was the only one with this problem. Bought the Crossmax SL wheels last year (WheelWorld.com), around May, and the noise started on October, after approx. 100 miles of regular use.[/FONT]
[FONT= times new roman]The noise is really annoying and mysterious. It starts when the speed is up to 30 Km/h or more, it’s loud, lots of vibration. Feels like the rear wheel will disintegrate. Besides, it comes and goes without notice. With a help of a mechanic, I dismounted the rear hub and everything seemed to be in place No visible damages or malfunctions. I lubricated all pieces (freehubs, coils, bearings etc.), but the mysterious noise persists. Did you consider replacing the freehub for a new one? I was about to do that when I found that other lucky guys like me had the same problem ? Any suggestions ? Did you find a solution after all ?[/FONT]

[FONT= times new roman]Thanks.[/FONT]

[FONT= times new roman]Sardep [/FONT]

Hi,

I had the exact same problem (death squeak) as the OP... took it to the local shop, guy took the hub apart, cleaned it, sipped oil in it, and closed it 🙂

Works like a charm! Just now, I don't have a sound of freewheel at all 🙁 that tik-tik-tik-tik sound that occurs when I don't spin pedals 😄

Good luck!

I have a set of Mavic Aksium wheels that I use for training. Recently I have had the same problem... screaming rear wheel when coasting downhill at 30+ mph. It makes the handlebars vibrate like crazy, too. A pro bike shop serviced the freehub, but the screaming continued the next time I rode on that wheel. Is this a wheel worth saving, or should I chuck this one and get another rear wheel to go with the Aksium front wheel?

i have Aksiums, yes they sound loud but function ok, i think your handlebars vibrated because of the asphalt, maybe the road wasn't that smooth or leveled ?

I had the problem, and this forum helped me solve it. It is the inner axle rubbing on the freehub. When the outer plastic bushing wears, there is more play in the freehub, and eventually it contacts the driveshaft. (Sorry, not sure about terminology, hope this makes sense, I am new to this.) When coasting, the freehub moves fast compared to the driveshaft, and once it contacts, it grabs and slips, basically acting like a really bad drum brake, and causes a hell of a racket. It also drives the chain down onto the stay as another way to tell it is happening. Although I did order a new bushing, I fixed it today, without a new bushing, by doing the following.

I took it all apart, (see YouTube video) and polished the driveshaft in the very back part, farthest from the plastic bushing on the freehub, next to the spokes, with 1500 grit wet sand paper. Then I cleaned it really good. Then I took a buffing wheel, it's very fine brass, and polished the ID of the freehub. I used a piece of lint free wipe to make a cover for the bearing while I was doing this. Cut a circle with a hole in the center and place it over the bearing before polishing to keep any derbis from getting into the bearing. The polishing wheel I used was a Hakko B3052.

Once everything was smooth and clean, I used dripless oil on the moving parts, and used Molycoat on the surfaces that might come in contact with the freehub. Molycoat is a silicone based lubricant that has molybdenum in it, doesn't flow away when it gets hot.

Put it all back together and did about 15 miles today, with some major downhills, and no noise.

For reference, yesterday it would make the noise while doing an easy coast, I was almost not able to ride it.

Bike was bought in 2007, has about 3000 miles on it, never been serviced before. My local dealer was clueless, told me repair would cost about the same as a new wheel. Had no idea how to fix.

This whole project took about 20 minutes.

Thanks everyone for your input!