McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

Nothing like predjudicial statements right off the top.

"With the evidence which we seem to see in this dossier, he's gone for
life," McQuaid told VeloNews on Saturday. "The implications for the
riders in the case are two years from WADA code and two years from the
ProTour, that's four years. And Hamilton, a ban for life. That would be
a second offense

He's got the prosecutions side and nothing else. I sincerely hope the
top of the sport folds. People reveal their true characters under
serious stress, and Pound, Hein, and McQuaid along with a [censored] of
team people appear to be pretty sorry excuses for human beings. Lots of
times it's pretty damned hard to do the right thing, instead of the
easy thing. They seem to lack what it takes.
[censored] on 'em all!
Bill C

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote ...

Quoted message said:

Nothing like predjudicial statements right off the top.

"With the evidence which we seem to see in this dossier, he's gone for
life," McQuaid told VeloNews on Saturday. "The implications for the
riders in the case are two years from WADA code and two years from the
ProTour, that's four years. And Hamilton, a ban for life. That would be
a second offense

He's got the prosecutions side and nothing else. I sincerely hope the
top of the sport folds. People reveal their true characters under
serious stress, and Pound, Hein, and McQuaid along with a [censored] of
team people appear to be pretty sorry excuses for human beings. Lots of
times it's pretty damned hard to do the right thing, instead of the
easy thing. They seem to lack what it takes.
[censored] on 'em all!

Indeed.
"...it seems these days the new MO is to ban first and figure it out later."
Howard Jacobs, Hamilton's attorney

If he doped, he doped. But at least let's give these guys the benefit of
due process.
--
Snippy

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

I don't get it. I've assumed that the Puerto implications about
Hamilton were connected to what he was doing in '04, but McQuaid seems
to think of this as a "second offense." Have we heard any charges or
even rumors that Hamilton's Puerto involvement was separate from his '04
positives?

If we take the long timeframe alleged in some Puerto leaks as multiple
offenses, then everybody involved would be facing a lifetime ban if
convicted. What gives?

I note in the Velonews article, Hamilton's lawyer is asking the same
question.

Mark

Snippy Bobkins said:

If he doped, he doped. But at least let's give these guys the benefit of
due process.

Indeed. Nothing worse than them getting of on a technicality.

One interpretation is that he was caught using blood doping with
someone else's blood in 2004.

However, he was not caught with any of the other substances. Those
other substances, if proved, would be a second offense.

Mark said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

I don't get it. I've assumed that the Puerto implications about
Hamilton were connected to what he was doing in '04, but McQuaid seems
to think of this as a "second offense." Have we heard any charges or
even rumors that Hamilton's Puerto involvement was separate from his '04
positives?

If we take the long timeframe alleged in some Puerto leaks as multiple
offenses, then everybody involved would be facing a lifetime ban if
convicted. What gives?

I note in the Velonews article, Hamilton's lawyer is asking the same
question.

Mark

Bill C said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

Nothing like predjudicial statements right off the top.

"With the evidence which we seem to see in this dossier, he's gone for
life," McQuaid told VeloNews on Saturday. "The implications for the
riders in the case are two years from WADA code and two years from the
ProTour, that's four years. And Hamilton, a ban for life. That would be
a second offense

He's got the prosecutions side and nothing else. I sincerely hope the
top of the sport folds. People reveal their true characters under
serious stress, and Pound, Hein, and McQuaid along with a [censored] of
team people appear to be pretty sorry excuses for human beings. Lots of
times it's pretty damned hard to do the right thing, instead of the
easy thing. They seem to lack what it takes.
[censored] on 'em all!
Bill C

[censored] on all the cheaters, too?

Kenny Labbé said:

[censored] on all the cheaters, too?

Hell Yeah! Get them in an objective, honest system then ban them for
good on the first offense and let them do something else.
Doesn't matter who it is either. Make the system work, than hang the
[censored].
Bill C

Quoted message said:

However, he was not caught with any of the other substances. Those
other substances, if proved, would be a second offense.

Hmm...

So Ulrich and Basso could also have two offenses, if it was found that
they blood doped *and* used steroids... or used any of these substances
twice... ever.

The legal case for banning Tyler for life is stupid... but that doesn't
mean they won't do it. Ethically, he should probably be banned for
professing his innocence (lying) and wasting a lot of time and money in
court.

Quoted message said:

One interpretation is that he was caught using blood doping with
someone else's blood in 2004.

However, he was not caught with any of the other substances. Those
other substances, if proved, would be a second offense.

I think they should bust the marblehead twice: the first time
for doping with someone else's blood, the second time
for doping with his own blood.

Irony: it's a vicious little [censored].

Ben

"Bill C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

Nothing like predjudicial statements right off the top.

"With the evidence which we seem to see in this dossier, he's gone for
life," McQuaid told VeloNews on Saturday. "The implications for the
riders in the case are two years from WADA code and two years from the
ProTour, that's four years. And Hamilton, a ban for life. That would be
a second offense

He's got the prosecutions side and nothing else. I sincerely hope the
top of the sport folds. People reveal their true characters under
serious stress, and Pound, Hein, and McQuaid along with a [censored] of
team people appear to be pretty sorry excuses for human beings. Lots of
times it's pretty damned hard to do the right thing, instead of the
easy thing. They seem to lack what it takes.
[censored] on 'em all!
Bill C

Here's a question - what time did Hamilton dope? If HE'S NOT RACING and
doesn't have a license then they can hardly call that an offense against
UCI.

Or what if the timing of it indicates that this was the offense for which
Hamilton has already been suspended.

What I'm thinking is that the entire UCI are opening themselves up for some
major lawsuits. What would be Jan Ullrich's financial loses if it turns out
that he was kept out of the Tour de France on his likely last competitive
year? 10 million euro? 20? What about Ivan Basso? This could essentially
destroy his career. 100 million plus euro?

The legal system in Europe must be pretty screwed up if UCI feel so little
constraints in making claims without any real backing.

"Kenny Labbé" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[censored] on all the cheaters, too?

What's cheating? Taking E-caps? Injected vitamins? Allan Peiper in his book
said that you can feel an almost instant boost from an iron injection. That
was legal. Now you can feed ANYTIME except on the final climbs and not just
in the feed zones - was that cheating before when several top ranked riders
fed on the final climbs?

EPO - OK there's sound medical reasons to ban the stuff BUT you can use
altitude training to achieve exactly the same thing. So why should someone
that used EPO to avoid the expense of a month at altitude be banned for
life?

Has ANYONE seen a good study on hgH showing performance enhancement?

Why is it NOT cheating to inject vitamins for a deficiency but NOT to inject
testosterone for a deficiency that occurs to all endurance athletes from
time to time?

Cheating isn't clear cut unless you take the position that breaking the
rules is the sole definition of cheating. And if that's the case you cannot
complain that Delgado was "cheating" in '88.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One interpretation is that he was caught using blood doping with
someone else's blood in 2004.

However, he was not caught with any of the other substances. Those
other substances, if proved, would be a second offense.

Nonsense, the ONLY proof that he actually used the stuff would be if he
tested positive.

Mark said:

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

I don't get it. I've assumed that the Puerto implications about
Hamilton were connected to what he was doing in '04, but McQuaid seems
to think of this as a "second offense." Have we heard any charges or
even rumors that Hamilton's Puerto involvement was separate from his '04
positives?

It was the '02-'03 season:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jun06/jun26news2

Jeff

Hopefully the UCI will begin ridding the sport of riders who are found
guilty of doping.... There is simply to much at stake for the sport,
when riders jepoardize themselves and sport using drugs. But like I
said before let's end guilt by association and innuendo. It's unfair to
the sport and tarnishes all the riders. Let's base the judgements on
evidence and truth.

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

in message <[email hidden]>, Ron

Ruff (') said:

Quoted message said:

However, he was not caught with any of the other substances. Those
other substances, if proved, would be a second offense.

Hmm...

So Ulrich and Basso could also have two offenses, if it was found that
they blood doped *and* used steroids... or used any of these substances
twice... ever.

The legal case for banning Tyler for life is stupid... but that doesn't
mean they won't do it. Ethically, he should probably be banned for
professing his innocence (lying) and wasting a lot of time and money in
court.

What I don't get is that Hamilton (who, allegedly, used Fuentes' services
two years ago) is being threatened with a life ban, while Valverde (who,
on the same evidence, used Fuentes' services two years ago) is being
allowed to race!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:47:56 +1200, Stu Fleming <[email hidden]> a
écrit :

Quoted message said:

Snippy Bobkins said:

If he doped, he doped. But at least let's give these guys the benefit of
due process.

Indeed. Nothing worse than them getting of on a technicality.

Depends on your point of view.....................

Remember me relating about a banned rider who had his piccy proudly
displayed in a Gay Bar window?

He appealed and got offf on the most flimsy of technicalities

On 1 Jul 2006 16:09:15 -0700, "Kenny Labbé" <[email hidden]> a
écrit :

Quoted message said:

Bill C wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[censored] on 'em all!
Bill C

[censored] on all the cheaters, too?

Davey sings:

Ban 'em all, Ban 'em all
The Long and the Short and the Talll.

On Sun, 02 Jul 2006 10:27:02 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email hidden]> a écrit :

Quoted message said:

What I don't get is that Hamilton (who, allegedly, used Fuentes' services
two years ago) is being threatened with a life ban, while Valverde (who,
on the same evidence, used Fuentes' services two years ago) is being
allowed to race!

Davey, despite being a perennial pessimist, is still gullible enough
to believe that Fuentes had riders using his "No Frills" services
which didn't include everything in the Pharmacopeia

Quoted message said:

Hopefully the UCI will begin ridding the sport of riders who are found
guilty of doping.... There is simply to much at stake for the sport,
when riders jepoardize themselves and sport using drugs. But like I
said before let's end guilt by association and innuendo. It's unfair to
the sport and tarnishes all the riders. Let's base the judgements on
evidence and truth.

Bret said:

Quoted message said:

From Velonews:

McQuaid: Hamilton facing lifetime ban; four years possible for Ullrich,
Basso

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10201.0.html

When you are in your early thirties a 2 year ban is a lifetime ban.