I have recently bought a second hand bike that was built by an enthusiast and I'm a bit concerned about the gear setup.
Specifically the groupset is Ultegra, 18 speed, double.
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and on the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the front outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding experience an an otherwise nice bike.
Its almost as if the front cogwheels need moving out ( away from the frame) maybe with spacers ??
Is it possible to fix this prob - why do you think it was built like this. Any help would be appreciated - I can send a digital pic if anyone is interested enough in advisiong me - it annoys me as otherwise the bike feels really good
On 1/10/04 11:11 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and on the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the front outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding experience an an otherwise nice bike.
Sarge,
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as it makes your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can almost certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger front chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the chain straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid having your chain go from very large to very small.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on my website at www.drianwalker.com
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On 1/10/04 11:11 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge"
<[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and
on
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the
front
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding
experience
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
an an otherwise nice bike.
Sarge,
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as it
makes
Quoted message said:
your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can almost certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger front chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the chain straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid having your chain go from very large to very small.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on
my
Quoted message said:
website at www.drianwalker.com
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
On 1/10/04 11:26 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
Well, there are several issues here, not least the fact that derailleur gears are a compromise rather than a great system. And as I said, you shouldn't be in big-to-small in any case so one could argue that a system which discourages this is a good thing!
More practically, you might be able to cure the problem if you changed the bottom bracket. It sounds as if your chainrings are relatively close to the bike frame. If you had a bottom bracket with a slightly longer axle, this could line the chainrings up such that they are in the centre of the rear sprocket group (when viewed from above). This might solve the problem.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on my website at www.drianwalker.com
That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes.
Forgot to say: the problem isn't caused by the groupset being of poor quality, but rather the exact shape of your frame, which, I'd guess, is putting the sprockets a bit far to the right of the chainrings. That's why the length of the BB axle will matter.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on my website at www.drianwalker.com
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to
'ensure'
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
positive gear changes.
Forgot to say: the problem isn't caused by the groupset being of poor quality, but rather the exact shape of your frame, which, I'd guess, is putting the sprockets a bit far to the right of the chainrings. That's why the length of the BB axle will matter.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on
my
Quoted message said:
website at www.drianwalker.com
Understood, thanks for that. Changing the bottom bracket sounds like a nightmare job, special tools no doubt required - I'll have to look into it carefully and see if it is actually worth the cost and effort to do it.
On 1/10/04 11:40 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Understood, thanks for that. Changing the bottom bracket sounds like a nightmare job, special tools no doubt required - I'll have to look into it carefully and see if it is actually worth the cost and effort to do it.
Yes, special tool needed, but it's only a pretty quick job. BBs are pretty cheap too. You could get a bikeshop to do the whole thing for not that much. However, like I said, I wouldn't bother - just switch from the small to the large chainring a bit sooner as you're going up the gears, which is what you should be doing anyway to make your chain last longer (try putting it in a biggest-smallest combination and look at how much it's being bent sideways!)
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on my website at www.drianwalker.com
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On 1/10/04 11:11 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge"
<[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and
on
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the
front
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding
experience
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
an an otherwise nice bike.
Sarge,
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as it
makes
Quoted message said:
your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can almost certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger front chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the chain straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid having your chain go from very large to very small.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on
my
Quoted message said:
website at www.drianwalker.com
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
If that's how you want to look at it then the situation is even worse than you think. You don't really have 18 gears anyway because there's an overlap in the middle range, meaning that you don't have to keep changing between the large and small chainrings. As you've seen for yourself you can't use the smaller chainring with the smallest cog and you've probably got a problem with the larger chainring and the largest cog, too.
Just because you can't access all the gears doesn't mean you haven't got 'positive gear changes'.
I can't understand why you'd want to use the gear combination that's causing the problem. You've got two chainrings - use them.
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On 1/10/04 11:11 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge"
<[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front
cogwheel and
Quoted message said:
on
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of
the
Quoted message said:
front
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding
experience
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
an an otherwise nice bike.
Sarge,
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as
it
Quoted message said:
makes
Quoted message said:
your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can
almost
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger
front
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the
chain
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid
having your
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
chain go from very large to very small.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details
are on
Quoted message said:
my
Quoted message said:
website at www.drianwalker.com
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think
about
Quoted message said:
my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected
from my
Quoted message said:
road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to
'ensure'
Quoted message said:
positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure
that's a
Quoted message said:
design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
Thanks
Sarge
Your expectations are too high. The combination you want to use is never recommended. Thats the way it is. Get a gear chart on line at Sheldon Browns and calculate your gears, you will see that the small-small combination is represented elsewhere in your set up by using large-medium. Your chain will last longer if it is straigther that is how it was designed to work.
in message <[email hidden]>, Sarge ([email hidden]'😉
Quoted message said:
I have recently bought a second hand bike that was built by an enthusiast and I'm a bit concerned about the gear setup.
Specifically the groupset is Ultegra, 18 speed, double.
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and on the rear outer cogwheel
No. Don't do this. Never use the extreme 'across the bike' combinations (big/big or small/small) particularly on nine and ten speed cassettes. Not only will it (as you've noticed) rub, it will also wear out your chain quickly.
Quoted message said:
Its almost as if the front cogwheels need moving out ( away from the frame) maybe with spacers ??
Possible but most unlikely. If so you would need a different bottom bracket with a different length axle, not spacers. As I say these systems are not designed to allow the use of the big/big and small/small combinations. Your bike is probably correctly set up.
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
Well, there are several issues here, not least the fact that derailleur gears are a compromise rather than a great system. And as I said, you shouldn't be in big-to-small in any case so one could argue that a system which discourages this is a good thing!
Ian, sorry to be a pedant; I'm sure you know what you mean. But do you not mean big to big (i.e. the outermost chainring to the innermost sprocket on the cassette) and small to small (i.e. the innermost chainring to the outermost sprocket on the cassette)
a person known to the world as 'Simon Brooke said:
Ian, sorry to be a pedant; I'm sure you know what you mean. But do you not mean big to big (i.e. the outermost chainring to the innermost sprocket on the cassette) and small to small (i.e. the innermost chainring to the outermost sprocket on the cassette)
Sorry - yes! A slip of the fingers (as the actress said...)
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are on my website at www.drianwalker.com
"Sarge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from
my
Quoted message said:
road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to
'ensure'
Quoted message said:
positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
Well they're different bikes, aren't they? If you measure the distance between your bottom bracket and your rear axle on your two bikes you'll almost certainly find that your road bike has shorter chainstays. This means that between the two gear extremes (front outer to rear inner and front inner to rear outer) the chain has to undergo a greater degree of angulation. This is not a good thing in general and is one of the reasons why using the extremes is not a good idea.
As far as I can recall, it's always been considered bad practice to use the extremes and although chains and gears have improved greatly over the years, it's still bad practice on basic mechanical grounds to do so (and it's unnecessary).
Changing your BB to move the front chainrings out *may* improve things but might upset the change at the other end of the range.
"Michael MacClancy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Sarge said:
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
On 1/10/04 11:11 am, a person known to the world as "Sarge"
<[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
wrote:
> When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel
and
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
on
Quoted message said:
> the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the
front
Quoted message said:
> outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. > The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding
experience
Quoted message said:
> an an otherwise nice bike.
Sarge,
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as it
makes
Quoted message said:
your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can almost certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger front chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the chain straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid having
your
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
chain go from very large to very small.
Ian Walker -- My email address is invalid to prevent spam. Real contact details are
on
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
my
Quoted message said:
website at www.drianwalker.com
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think
about
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from
my
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to
'ensure'
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's
a
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
If that's how you want to look at it then the situation is even worse than you think. You don't really have 18 gears anyway because there's an overlap in the middle range, meaning that you don't have to keep changing between the large and small chainrings. As you've seen for yourself you can't use the smaller chainring with the smallest cog and you've probably got a problem with the larger chainring and the largest cog, too.
Just because you can't access all the gears doesn't mean you haven't got 'positive gear changes'.
I can't understand why you'd want to use the gear combination that's causing the problem. You've got two chainrings - use them.
Perhaps my expectations are unreasonable, as I said earlier I was expecting the same experience that I get on my Marin - and not expecting my chain to physically and annoyingly clunk in a certain gear. The bike is new to me and I suppose I am really making sure that what I have bought is working correctly and not incorrectly put together. By the sounds of it I am being too pedantic, which is good, because changing my attitude is cheaper and easier than changing the bottom bracket :-)
If this is normal for Road Bikes then I am happy to accept that.
"Ian Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
a person known to the world as 'Sarge said:
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and on the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the front outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding experience an an otherwise nice bike.
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
It's good practice not to be in this sprocket combination at all as it makes your chain bend sideways a lot, wearing it out quickly. You can almost certainly get exactly the same gear with the chain on the larger front chainring and one of the middle rear sprockets, which keeps the chain straighter and stops it wearing. Basically, you want to avoid having your chain go from very large to very small.
Quoted message said:
This is my first Road Bike, I been using mountain bikes for years. I currently have a 2 year old Marin on a triple and I just don't think about my gears - I can access all gears smoothly - That's what I expected from my road bike and that's why I loked for at least 105 / Ultegra spec to 'ensure' positive gear changes. If not all gears are accessible then sure that's a design fault ? Why sell a system that is only 90% useable - I don't understand !
You shouldn't use that gear even when it is accessible because it's a [censored] gear. It causes excessive ineffiency and wear, and you don't need all 100% of your gears because of overlapping ratios, as explained by Ian already. It is a design limitation, but an unimporant one.
Perhaps my expectations are unreasonable, as I said earlier I was expecting the same experience that I get on my Marin - and not expecting my chain to physically and annoyingly clunk in a certain gear.
You'd be better off avoiding the extreme cross-over gears on your Marin as well, even if they seem to work better than on your road bike.
Its almost as if the front cogwheels need moving out ( away from the frame) maybe with spacers ??
Quoted message said:
Possible but most unlikely. If so you would need a different bottom bracket with a different length axle, not spacers. As I say these systems are not designed to allow the use of the big/big and small/small combinations.
A straight line from sprocket 5 on the rear cluster should be in between the two chainwheels at the front.
I have recently bought a second hand bike that was built by an enthusiast and I'm a bit concerned about the gear setup.
Specifically the groupset is Ultegra, 18 speed, double.
When I am in gear 9 - so the chain is on the inner front cogwheel and on the rear outer cogwheel - the chain rubs badly on the inside of the front outer cogwheel !! I hope you know what I mean. The chain really clunks when in this gear which spoils the riding experience an an otherwise nice bike.
Its almost as if the front cogwheels need moving out ( away from the frame) maybe with spacers ??
Is it possible to fix this prob - why do you think it was built like this. Any help would be appreciated - I can send a digital pic if anyone is interested enough in advisiong me - it annoys me as otherwise the bike feels really good
Thanks for any help
Sarge
You're trolling, right? Don't use that combination. --
