medical recognition for a commuter

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Doug Purdy
Just had my gall bladder removed yesterday. The hospital noticed my heart rate of 43 and were so
concerned they gave me an ECG.

I guess that means the past 5 years of commuting have helped. I started cycling because in my early
50s I felt lousy and had strange feelings in my heart. It just made more sense to me to get my
exercise while commuting instead of driving to the gym.

I'll take that as medical recognition of accomplishment.

Doug For email, a sense of wonder.

Doug,

Had the same sort of results after just 12 months of daily commutes when I had my annual medical recently.

Weight wise, I have lost a lot of size, (trimmed down) but only about an actual kilo, but the blood pressure went from 138/110 to 108/74, with a resting pulse of 45. (now 51 yo)

Wish I had remembered what fun riding a bike really was. Last time I was commuting was in the mid- 80's in my early 30's. Now, like you, the commute is good exercise and very beneficial to an overall feeling of wellbeing, as well as being an easy way to beat the traffic congestion in downtown Sydney Australia.🙁

Hope the post-op recuperation is swift and that you're back in the saddle soon.

regards

SteveDel ("I ride to work, but I work to ride!"😉

SteveDel said:

Doug Purdy said:

Just had my gall bladder removed yesterday. The hospital noticed my heart rate of 43 and were
so concerned they gave me an ECG.

Had the same sort of results after just 12 months of daily commutes when I had my annual medical
recently.

I'm jealous. I've been doing an hour a night (around 30 km) on my apartment bike since February last
year, in aerobic and threshold zones, with no perceptible change in resting rate, still holdng fast
around 60. And a recent visit to the doctor had the blood pressure way up high. I'm on medication
for it but even that seems to have little effect. Perhaps without the exercize bike I'd be dead, but
it seems unencouraging for such a high price in tedium.

EFR Ile de France

Elisa Francesca Roselli wrote: <snip>

Quoted message said:

I'm jealous. I've been doing an hour a night (around 30 km) on my apartment bike since February
last year, in aerobic and threshold zones, with no perceptible change in resting rate, still
holdng fast around 60. And a recent visit to the doctor had the blood pressure way up high. I'm on
medication for it but even that seems to have little effect. Perhaps without the exercize bike I'd
be dead, but it seems unencouraging for such a high price in tedium.

EFR Ile de France

Thats what they made roads for, to get you out in fresh air and constantly changing scenery.

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

SteveDel said:

Doug Purdy said:

Just had my gall bladder removed yesterday. The hospital noticed

my > heart rate of 43 and were so concerned they gave me an ECG.

Had the same sort of results after just 12 months of daily commutes when I had my annual medical
recently.

I'm jealous. I've been doing an hour a night (around 30 km) on my apartment bike since February
last year, in aerobic and threshold zones, with no perceptible change in resting rate, still
holdng fast around 60. And a recent visit to the doctor had the blood pressure way up high. I'm on
medication for it but even that seems to have little effect. Perhaps without the exercize bike I'd
be dead, but it seems unencouraging for such a high price in tedium.

EFR Ile de France

If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato. If you
really want to see any changes you'll need to bust your butt on occasion. For instance twice a week
maybe you could do some interval training and the other five nights you can continue with your base
buildup like you are doing now.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Per Elmsäter said:

If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato.

I notice that while my resting heart rate isn't _that_ much lower -- runs in the 50~60 range, my
pulmonary capacity is ludicrously high (might have something to do with 12 years blowing on a
trumpet, too) and my cholesterol is in the bottom 10th percentile.

While i ride almost every work day of the year my ride being 30~45 minutes each way depending on the
weather, I'm hardly a category-rated rider. Still, I'm guessing my biometrics are consistant with
other riders' experiences.

.max

--
the part of <[email hidden]> was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

Per Elmsäter said:

If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato. If you
really want to see any changes you'll need to bust your butt on occasion. For instance twice a
week maybe you could do some interval training and the other five nights you can continue with
your base buildup like you are doing now.

Both my regular GP and the cardiologist I visited this summer have strongly suggested that it would
be dangerous for me to exercize above 136 bpm. I take that as an average over the hour, and I do
still go considerably up from there over short spans, otherwise I wouldn't even break a sweat, but
my practise of averaging around 147 over the hour of last winter had to be terminated.

EFR Ile de France

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Per Elmsäter said:

If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato. If you
really want to see any changes you'll need to bust your butt on occasion. For instance twice a
week maybe you could do some interval training and the other five nights you can continue with
your base buildup like you are doing now.

Both my regular GP and the cardiologist I visited this summer have strongly suggested that it
would be dangerous for me to exercize above 136 bpm. I take that as an average over the hour, and
I do still go considerably up from there over short spans, otherwise I wouldn't even break a
sweat, but my practise of averaging around 147 over the hour of last winter had to be terminated.

EFR Ile de France

Either you have a medical issue to be taken seriously or you need to find another cardiologist 😉 In
either case. If you can average 136 bpm over the hour you won't be doing to bad, guessing you have a
maxHR between 170-190. I would like to go that low for my distance training rides. Ie I'd like to
ride for 4-5 hours once or twice a week at 135 bpm. My maxHR is 190. Usually my friends that I ride
with will keep the pace higher and I'll more often average 145-150. Of course they are much more fit
than me and have a lower average HR. This will not give me quite the basic training I need to build
from. Apart from these LSD ( Long Slow Distance) rides I also do intervals a couple of times a week.
During these intervals I consistently go to about 95% of maxHR. I also am not a racer rather a 53 yo
that likes to stay lots fitter than a couch potato 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Per Elmsäter said:

If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato. If you
really want to see any changes you'll need to bust your butt on occasion. For instance twice a
week maybe you could do some interval training and the other five nights you can continue with
your base buildup like you are doing now.

Both my regular GP and the cardiologist I visited this summer have strongly suggested that it
would be dangerous for me to exercize above 136 bpm. I take that as an average over the hour, and
I do still go considerably up from there over short spans, otherwise I wouldn't even break a
sweat, but my practise of averaging around 147 over the hour of last winter had to be terminated.

EFR Ile de France

Either you have a medical issue to be taken seriously or you need to find another cardiologist 😉
In either case. If you can average 136 bpm over the hour you won't be doing to bad, guessing you
have a maxHR between 170-190. I would like to go that low for my distance training rides. Ie I'd
like to ride for 4-5 hours once or twice a week at 135 bpm. My maxHR is 190. Usually my friends
that I ride with will keep the pace higher and I'll more often average 145-150. Of course they are
much more fit than me and have a lower average HR. This will not give me quite the basic training I
need to build from. Apart from these LSD ( Long Slow Distance) rides I also do intervals a couple
of times a week. During these intervals I consistently go to about 95% of maxHR. I also am not a
racer rather a 53 yo that likes to stay lots fitter than a couch potato 😉

My understanding was that the reason a trainee monitored heart rate was to make sure they were
getting a training effect. IOW, if you don't monitor, your tendency is to not get the HR up high
enough for long enough. I've never heard of anyone whose 'perception' of effort was lower than their
optimal training effective effort - i.e. were I to look at my HR during my near max effort -
considering I'm not trying to turn in world-class times (heh, heh) - I'd expect I'd be well under my
HR would be well below my MaxHR.

I push it as hard as I can for as long as I can, and feel pretty confident, looking at my training
logs, that I'm getting improvement.

Are you saying that I'm working out too hard just going by perceived effort? (not trying to be
argumentative, just honestly curious)

PS, I'm in your age group, but not at your fitness level (kudos). <g>

-B

Badger South said:

Per Elmsäter said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

"Per Elmsäter" wrote:

> If your aerobic and threshold zones are constructed from a so called fitness perspective they
> proably won't do much for you other than keep you slightly more fit than a couch potato. If you
> really want to see any changes you'll need to bust your butt on occasion. For instance twice a
> week maybe you could do some interval training and the other five nights you can continue with
> your base buildup like you are doing now.

Both my regular GP and the cardiologist I visited this summer have strongly suggested that it
would be dangerous for me to exercize above 136 bpm. I take that as an average over the hour,
and I do still go considerably up from there over short spans, otherwise I wouldn't even break a
sweat, but my practise of averaging around 147 over the hour of last winter had to be
terminated.

EFR Ile de France

Either you have a medical issue to be taken seriously or you need to find another cardiologist 😉
In either case. If you can average 136 bpm over the hour you won't be doing to bad, guessing you
have a maxHR between 170-190. I would like to go that low for my distance training rides. Ie I'd
like to ride for 4-5 hours once or twice a week at 135 bpm. My maxHR is 190. Usually my friends
that I ride with will keep the pace higher and I'll more often average 145-150. Of course they
are much more fit than me and have a lower average HR. This will not give me quite the basic
training I need to build from. Apart from these LSD ( Long Slow Distance) rides I also do
intervals a couple of times a week. During these intervals I consistently go to about 95% of
maxHR. I also am not a racer rather a 53 yo that likes to stay lots fitter than a couch potato 😉

My understanding was that the reason a trainee monitored heart rate was to make sure they were
getting a training effect. IOW, if you don't monitor, your tendency is to not get the HR up high
enough for long enough. I've never heard of anyone whose 'perception' of effort was lower than
their optimal training effective effort - i.e. were I to look at my HR during my near max effort -
considering I'm not trying to turn in world-class times (heh, heh) - I'd expect I'd be well under
my HR would be well below my MaxHR.

I push it as hard as I can for as long as I can, and feel pretty confident, looking at my training
logs, that I'm getting improvement.

Are you saying that I'm working out too hard just going by perceived effort? (not trying to be
argumentative, just honestly curious)

PS, I'm in your age group, but not at your fitness level (kudos). <g>

-B

OK this is how I understand it. I'm not a pro but I'll try to give you an idea of this as well as I
can. The theory on LSD rides is that they prepare you for the hard workouts. Without them you don't
benefit as much from the all out efforts that you throw in. What happens physiologiclly is that when
riding very slow for a very long time you muscles get a chance to build up capillaries ( I think
this is the correct term for the very smallest blood vessels). When you're going hard your muscles
don't get this opportunity. The more capillarys your muscles have the more oxygen you can transport
to them. The more oxygen you can give your muscle the harder and longer it can work. The use of HRMs
is widely discussed among cyclists but I believe that most of them agree that it is very good for
seing to it that you do not go to hard on recovery and LSD rides.

Personally I believe that a middleaged amateur like myself will improve whatever kind of riding
we do. Especially when we start out from scratch. However if we want to utilize the time we have
we might as well pick up tips from the pros. Plus it's really nice to go out for a sunday
clubride going no faster than you can talk easily with each other the whole day and still knowing
you are really doing something for your training. We often split up in two groups one slow and
one faster. The people in the slow group is most often the strongest riders taking this
opportunity to do an LSD ride.

Weekday evenings when we have less time are good for interval and speed training at a high
perceived effort.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"Per Elmsater" <[email hidden]> wrote:
: The theory on LSD rides is that they prepare you for the hard workouts.

? do i need to move to sweden?
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

David Reuteler said:

Per Elmsater said:

The theory on LSD rides is that they prepare you for the hard workouts.

? do i need to move to sweden?

This is not the LSD of the sixties we are talking about anymore 😉 And if so I don't Sweden is the
right place to live. SF is probably still the alltime high for that 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Quoted message said:

Are you saying that I'm working out too hard just going by perceived effort? (not trying to be
argumentative, just honestly curious)

PS, I'm in your age group, but not at your fitness level (kudos). <g>

-B

OK this is how I understand it. I'm not a pro but I'll try to give you an idea of this as well as I
can. The theory on LSD rides is that they prepare you for the hard workouts. Without them you don't
benefit as much from the all out efforts that you throw in. What happens physiologiclly is that
when riding very slow for a very long time you muscles get a chance to build up capillaries ( I
think this is the correct term for the very smallest blood vessels). When you're going hard your
muscles don't get this opportunity. The more capillarys your muscles have the more oxygen you can
transport to them. The more oxygen you can give your muscle the harder and longer it can work.

Sounds logical. Wonder if there might be increase in the number of mitochondria in the cells and
other changes, such as lactic acid threshold improvements, and other things. Those kinds of changes
probably take a long time - on the order of 5-10 years to max out.

The thing is after you get a certain age, and add those 'diminishing returns', one is probably
'catching up' more than 'improving' - alas.

Thanks for the reply!

-B

Quoted message said:

The use of HRMs is widely discussed among cyclists but I believe that most of them agree that it is
very good for seing to it that you do not go to hard on recovery and LSD rides.

Personally I believe that a middleaged amateur like myself will improve whatever kind of riding we
do. Especially when we start out from scratch. However if we want to utilize the time we have we
might as well pick up tips from the pros. Plus it's really nice to go out for a sunday clubride
going no faster than you can talk easily with each other the whole day and still knowing you are
really doing something for your training. We often split up in two groups one slow and one faster.
The people in the slow group is most often the strongest riders taking this opportunity to do an
LSD ride.

Weekday evenings when we have less time are good for interval and speed training at a high
perceived effort.

Badger South said:

Per Elmsäter said:

Quoted message said:

Are you saying that I'm working out too hard just going by perceived effort? (not trying to be
argumentative, just honestly curious)

PS, I'm in your age group, but not at your fitness level (kudos).
<g>

-B

OK this is how I understand it. I'm not a pro but I'll try to give you an idea of this as well
as I can. The theory on LSD rides is that they prepare you for the hard workouts. Without them
you don't benefit as much from the all out efforts that you throw in. What happens
physiologiclly is that when riding very slow for a very long time you muscles get a chance to
build up capillaries ( I think this is the correct term for the very smallest blood vessels).
When you're going hard your muscles don't get this opportunity. The more capillarys your muscles
have the more oxygen you can transport to them. The more oxygen you can give your muscle the
harder and longer it can work.

Sounds logical. Wonder if there might be increase in the number of mitochondria in the cells and
other changes, such as lactic acid

There you go. Mitochondria was the english term I was looking for and they increase on the double
when going slow and far. I believe I've heard that less than an hour of riding does nothing for
this. We usually go120-140 km on sundays to build mitochondria.

Quoted message said:

threshold improvements, and other things. Those kinds of changes probably take a long time - on
the order of 5-10 years to max out.

LT threshold training is done at LT levels. Ie much higher HR than what we are discussing now. If
you do your mitochondria buildup properly then you will benefit more from the LT level training.
Anyways that is what the people that advocate this say. At this point the pros seem to rely more on
Power Meters and Perceived Effort more than HR.

Quoted message said:

The thing is after you get a certain age, and add those 'diminishing returns', one is probably
'catching up' more than 'improving' - alas.

I'm 53 and winning a lot of our citylimit sprints over younger kids in their twentys and thirtys.
Especially the ones that don't do their basic buildup. My ass also gets whipped, but mostly by guys
'n gals that usally have three times as many kilometers in their legs as me, regardless of age. On
an amateur basis I don't think the difference between a 30 yo and 50 yo is all that big. It mostly
depends on how much we train. We have a 67 yo dude in our club that does a 30 km TT in 47 minutes.
Go figure 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Per Elmsäter said:

Badger South said:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 22:24:55 GMT, "Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

LT threshold training is done at LT levels. Ie much higher HR than what we are discussing now. If
you do your mitochondria buildup properly then you will benefit more from the LT level training.
Anyways that is what the people that advocate this say. At this point the pros seem to rely more on
Power Meters and Perceived Effort more than HR.

Quoted message said:

The thing is after you get a certain age, and add those 'diminishing returns', one is probably
'catching up' more than 'improving' - alas.

I'm 53 and winning a lot of our citylimit sprints over younger kids in their twentys and thirtys.
Especially the ones that don't do their basic buildup. My ass also gets whipped, but mostly by guys
'n gals that usally have three times as many kilometers in their legs as me, regardless of age. On
an amateur basis I don't think the difference between a 30 yo and 50 yo is all that big. It mostly
depends on how much we train. We have a 67 yo dude in our club that does a 30 km TT in 47 minutes.
Go figure 😉

Well then, you rule! I'm retired now, and can spend as much time as I like training. Right now I'm
trying to push myself and get up to a certain level, b/c in my mind, right now, it's pretty easy to
conserve energy on a bike and thus it feels like there's little training effect. But I'm planning on
going to two-a-day rides in the spring, and work up to an hour. I'm currently stuck at 45 min, b/c
going longer than that is hard to sustain on a daily basis, mentally at least. ;-)

December was a bad month - missed a number of days snowed in, even though I tried and failed to
navigate the crunchy snowpack.

Best to you, and good luck on your efforts!

-B

Badger South said:

Well then, you rule! I'm retired now, and can spend as much time as I like training. Right now I'm
trying to push myself and get up to a

Well it sounds like you can kick back and really enjoy some legal LSD 😉

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

"SteveDel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Had the same sort of results after just 12 months of daily

commutes when

Quoted message said:

I had my annual medical recently.

Weight wise, I have lost a lot of size, (trimmed down) but only

about an

Quoted message said:

actual kilo, but the blood pressure went from 138/110 to 108/74,

with a

Quoted message said:

resting pulse of 45. (now 51 yo)

Congrats! I found the same weight wise, well I used to be 265 but I've been 230 from biking and I'm
250 now (crashed in Sept.) Unfortunately I don't have any records of my blood pressure. I have had a
heart rate monitor for a few years but never used it. You can tell I take training seriously. 😉

Quoted message said:

Wish I had remembered what fun riding a bike really was. Last

time I was

Quoted message said:

commuting was in the mid- 80's in my early 30's. Now, like you,

the

Quoted message said:

commute is good exercise and very beneficial to an overall

feeling of

Quoted message said:

wellbeing, as well as being an easy way to beat the traffic

congestion

Quoted message said:

in downtown Sydney Australia.🙁

I'll echo yours and say I enjoy riding really hard sometimes, exploring others, sometimes just
enjoying the scenery and it's almost always way more relaxing than driving. (When it isn't it's
because of that 1 driver per year who manages to get under my skin. 😉

Quoted message said:

Hope the post-op recuperation is swift and that you're back in

the

Quoted message said:

saddle soon.

My doc said I could go back to work the next day. For most of this week I felt like I'd been kicked
by a 20 foot tall horse and my guts were falling out on the floor. I'll have to drive to work next
week so I took my van in for an oil change and a new thermostat: $140 later I remember another
reason I prefer to ride.

Quoted message said:

SteveDel ("I ride to work, but I work to ride!"😉

Keep it quiet but sometimes I think I should almost be paying them for getting me out to ride 200km
a week in suburban/urban Toronto.

Doug For email, a sense of wonder.

Badger South said:

December was a bad month - missed a number of days snowed in, even though I tried and failed to
navigate the crunchy snowpack.

Try a trainer. Great for those sub-freezing days with 20 mph winds. I have mine in a corner of an
unheated garage--the cold is an incentive to pedal harder and generate some heat. Also, it's a bit
easier to ride since I'm not constrained to the short winter daylight hours.

-=Dave=-