Menu Theory

Lena B Katz said:

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How hungry are they? :-) For entertaining, there should usually be at least a bit more food than one
would calculate for a 'regular' meal. Given currently rising rates of obesity, serving smaller
portions attractively arranged is doing most people a favor.

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Here's something that may be of interest:

usda.govthriftym.pdfOpen ↗

(note that this is a .pdf file and takes a while to d'load.)

Search on "frugal meals" or "thrifty meals". There are a lot of sites.

Quoted message said:

3. How do I balance everything?

Learn something about nutrition. The sweet ol' USDA will tell you all about food content, once you
know what you're looking for:

nal.usda.govnut search.plOpen ↗

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?
2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?
3. How do I balance everything?

//I'm no longer the big meat eater I was at home... where every meal was chicken and sidedish with
salad. I'm just looking for some help on how to come up with appropriate everyday meals.

Lena

Hi Lena, You should feed someone one portion of the recipe you're making depending upon the serving
size. When not using a recipe, or if the portion seems large, I follow a rule that a portion is
about the size of your fist.

As for mixing foods together or balancing the meal, simple is best -- two things per meal that
complement each other. A portion of protein and a vegetable or a starch. Fresh hummus with pita
bread and a tomato/cuke salad. Grilled chicken/turkey/beef/pork and roasted veggies. For heavier
dishes like pasta or a stew the one recipe can be a meal on its own -- sometimes I increase the
portion to make up for not having a side dish.

For good basic guidelines for composing menus: Fine Cooking magazine has an issue that includes
simple recipes in each category (vegetables, pasta, beef, poultry, desserts, etc) and then examples
of how to put dishes from each category together. I've been using it nonstop since I received it and
I highly recommend it. The issue is called The Best of Fine Cooking, 101 Quick and Delicious Recipes
(subtitled: 18 menus that put it all together; dinner ideas for every night of the week). They have
a website as well: www.finecooking.com

BBC also has some healthy eating basics: bbc.co.ukbasics.shtmlOpen ↗

I hope that helps. good luck! Mia

Lena B Katz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?
2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?
3. How do I balance everything?

//I'm no longer the big meat eater I was at home... where every meal was chicken and sidedish with
salad. I'm just looking for some help on how to come up with appropriate everyday meals.

Lena

Congrats on getting into CMU.

For thrifty meals, think pasta, potatoes, onions, rice, and beans (not all at the same time). Buying
potatoes and onions in 5 lbs.(or larger) bags is very economical, and they last a while even if
stored in a cabinet. Pasta and rice are also cheap, lend themselves to a large variety of meals, and
store almost indefinitely. Eggs are also a cheap source of complete protein.

Don't leave out fruits and vegetables, they are a good source of vitamins and with a hectic academic
schedule, you will need plenty to stay healthy.

Balance is the largest problem. Someone already posted a link to the USDA which has good references
for nutitional info. If you go light on meat and dairy, you will have to put more effort into
getting a good balance, but it is still possible.

How much you feed a person depends on many factors. Are they adults ? Do they get a lot of exercise
? For everyday meals, they amount should be based on the calories they will burn each day.

Many of the ethnic cuisines lend themselves to economical meals. Mexican, Chinese, Italian, and
Indian meals can often be cheap, and act as an example of what goes together.

Dean G.

Dean G. said:

Lena B Katz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?
2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?
3. How do I balance everything?

//I'm no longer the big meat eater I was at home... where every meal was chicken and sidedish
with salad. I'm just looking for some help on how to come up with appropriate everyday meals.

Lena

Congrats on getting into CMU.

I'll take that as well as congratulations on graduating from CMU. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

For thrifty meals, think pasta, potatoes, onions, rice, and beans (not all at the same time).
Buying potatoes and onions in 5 lbs.(or larger) bags is very economical, and they last a while
even if stored in a cabinet. Pasta and rice are also cheap, lend themselves to a large variety of
meals, and store almost indefinitely. Eggs are also a cheap source of complete protein.

Okay... so, I already have all this food. That's not the problem. The problem is that i'm sharing
meal-cooking duties with two other people. Thus, they expect honest-to-goodness meals. _Not_ mashed
potatoes for supper! (yes, i do mean just mashed potatoes). _Not_ just "bisquick surprise."

Thus, being the completely ignorant of American culture person that I am, I've got a riddle on my
hands: just _what_ makes a meal. Preferably, just _what_ makes a complete meal, without non-caloric
food, and using meat as flavoring and not entree?

Quoted message said:

Don't leave out fruits and vegetables, they are a good source of vitamins and with a hectic
academic schedule, you will need plenty to stay healthy.

Tomatoes and carrots and spinach. 'bout the only vegetables you need ('sides most of the others have
almost no nutritional value). 'course, spinach is fairly poisonous....

Quoted message said:

Balance is the largest problem. Someone already posted a link to the USDA which has good
references for nutitional info. If you go light on meat and dairy, you will have to put more
effort into getting a good balance, but it is still possible.

I'm not looking so much for "USDA recommended" as "people won't consider this to be completely
unacceptable" (as people apparently consider a meal of just mashed potatoes).

Quoted message said:

How much you feed a person depends on many factors. Are they adults ?

Adults, yes. Three please.

Quoted message said:

Do they get a lot of exercise ? For everyday meals, they amount should be based on the calories
they will burn each day.

Okay... so that's fairly easy to do when you're going off recipes and packaged stuff. how many
calories do you get from meats/vegetables? they don't seem to put that in the store...

Quoted message said:

Many of the ethnic cuisines lend themselves to economical meals. Mexican, Chinese, Italian, and
Indian meals can often be cheap, and act as an example of what goes together.

Am growing sick of pasta and pasta sauce for supper, like my one roommate serves once _every week._

Lena

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How much Money do you have and how hungry are they?

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Healthy foods.

Quoted message said:

3. How do I balance everything?

Start redding here:

fns.usda.govfncsOpen ↗

Dimitri

Dimitri said:

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How much Money do you have and how hungry are they?

Under $75 a month for myself. We eat late suppers, around eight or ten at night. usually people eat
snacks about four hours earlier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Healthy foods.

this doesn't tell me much about the theory... I mean, i knwo mashedpotatoes are healthy for you...
but just mashed potatoes doesn't make a meal (why, i'm not really sure).

lena

Dimitri said:

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dimitri said:

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]...
> Just looking for some tips...
>
> 1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How much Money do you have and how hungry are they?

Under $75 a month for myself. We eat late suppers, around eight or ten at night. usually people
eat snacks about four hours earlier.

Quoted message said:

> 2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Healthy foods.

this doesn't tell me much about the theory... I mean, i knwo mashedpotatoes are healthy for
you... but just mashed potatoes doesn't make a meal (why, i'm not really sure).

I posted upthread about why usda _sucks_ as a resource. besides, i'm not talking about healthy
foods... just what is culturally acceptible as a meal (we cook dinners together... if my roommates
want nutrition, they can get it on their own budget)

Lena

Socks said:

Lena B Katz said:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Dean G. wrote:

Quoted message said:

Okay... so, I already have all this food. That's not the problem. The problem is that i'm
sharing meal-cooking duties with two other people. Thus, they expect honest-to-goodness meals.
_Not_ mashed potatoes for supper! (yes, i do mean just mashed potatoes). _Not_ just "bisquick
surprise."

Thus, being the completely ignorant of American culture person that I am, I've got a riddle on
my hands: just _what_ makes a meal. Preferably, just _what_ makes a complete meal, without non-
caloric food, and using meat as flavoring and not entree?

go to a "family restaurant" that has lots of pictures on menu.

steal menu.

(reduce servings by 1/3 to compensate for photographic optimism)

failure to read entire post dooms suggestion.

Lena

Lena B Katz saw Sally selling seashells by the seashore and told us
all about it on Tue, 6 Jan 2004 19:38:49 -0500 (EST):

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?
2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?
3. How do I balance everything?

//I'm no longer the big meat eater I was at home... where every meal was chicken and sidedish with
salad. I'm just looking for some help on how to come up with appropriate everyday meals..

What makes a 'meal' is different to everyone. To most people that means a large serve of protein
(generally meat, but it could be eggs, cheese, legumes, tofu etc.), some starch (potato or rice or
pasta or bread), and one to three vegetables cooked in whatever fashion you like.

As a whole starch and vegetables are cheap and protein is expensive. But you can't live on starch
alone (which is why a plate of mashed potatoes is NOT dinner) Starch and carbohydrates go into the
bloodstream too quickly and provide quick energy but they run out. They also trigger insulin release
which locks the extra energy away into your cells for use at some unspecified future date (which is
why they tend to make you fat) Adding protein to the starch slows down the energy processing and
makes the meal last longer (at least in my experience) The more protein you can add to the meal the
longer you will remain satisfied before you get hungry again. And the third part of the meal, the
vegies, is to add extra flavours and provide vitamins and minerals.

IMO a plate of iceberg lettuce has no food value whatsoever and is a waste of time to eat... but a
plate of mixed salad greens, carrot, celery, cucumber etc is worth the bother. btw, the more
'bitter' a salad vegie is, the more useful nutrients it contains.

I'd suggest you go find a 'menu planner' website and look at the sort of things they include in a
week's meals. I try to have one meal a week based on pasta and one meal on rice (or two rice OR two
pasta) but no more. Sometimes we have homemade or bought pizza, and it counts as a 'starch'-based
meal too... the other four or five meals in the week are based on meat and vegies and may or may not
contain potato or rice as a minor ingredient. eg.'frypan casserole' with mashed potatoes, grilled
chicken and steamed vegetables, hamburgers and steamed vegetables, chicken risotto (heavy on the
vegetables), roast beef, etc.

Stir-fries make a little meat go a long way. So can flavoursome curries. If you like tofu, it's a
relatively cheap form of nonmeat protein, and it goes very well in stirfries.

~Karen AKA Kajikit

Nobody outstubborns a cat...

Visit my webpage: kajikitscorner.comkajikitscorner.comOpen ↗ Allergyfree Eating Recipe Swap:
groups.yahoo.comAllergyfree EatingOpen ↗ Ample Aussies Mailing List:
groups.yahoo.comampleaussiesOpen ↗

Frogleg said:

Lena B Katz said:

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How hungry are they? :-) For entertaining, there should usually be at least a bit more food than
one would calculate for a 'regular' meal. Given currently rising rates of obesity, serving smaller
portions attractively arranged is doing most people a favor.

I'm not talking about entertaining. How much is a regular meal?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Here's something that may be of interest:

usda.govthriftym.pdfOpen ↗

(note that this is a .pdf file and takes a while to d'load.)

The USDA Lies! It Lies, I tell you!

Seriously, that's written for obese poor Southerners (catsup? i don't think I can even _find_ catsup
here!)... it says so in the back.

The USDA doesn't give honest information, it gives the type of information it thinks will make
americans more healthy. Thus, its RDA of calcium is four times as much as the WHO's recommended
amount... mostly due to the USDA thinking that people only take in calcium from milk (and whose
fault is that, oh wonderful USDA?). It will routinely recommend you eat foods without nutritional
value, simply because its goal is to increase the overall health of the public (diet foods, like
salads, make people feel fool). I fall quite outside the range of what the USDA considers normal,
and so many of their recommendations don't make much sense to me, and in fact would be quite
unhealthy for me. Were I to blow my budget buying cucumbers, lettuce and raisins (all foods with
little nutrional value), I'd be in serious trouble.

Quoted message said:

Search on "frugal meals" or "thrifty meals". There are a lot of sites.

Thanks for the search keys!

lena

Mia said:

As for mixing foods together or balancing the meal, simple is best -- two things per meal that
complement each other. A portion of protein and a vegetable or a starch.... For heavier dishes
like pasta or a stew the one recipe can be a meal on its own -- sometimes I increase the portion
to make up for not having a side dish.

Just a tad too "simple" to me. I like to serve at least three items on a plate: protein, starch (to
include starchy veggies) and a non starchy veg. I also almost always have a salad after my main
course too. One dish meals always benefit from hot bread or something, and sometimes again that
salad afterwards.

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dimitri said:

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How much Money do you have and how hungry are they?

Under $75 a month for myself. We eat late suppers, around eight or ten at night. usually people
eat snacks about four hours earlier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Healthy foods.

this doesn't tell me much about the theory... I mean, i knwo mashedpotatoes are healthy for you...
but just mashed potatoes doesn't make a meal (why, i'm not really sure).

lena

Like I said - start reading here: fns.usda.govfncsOpen ↗

That is the food and nutrition service.

There is a food pyramid there which will outline the size and number of servings for each food group
a healthy person needs on a daily basis.

Dimitri

Dimitri

Lena B Katz said:

On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Dean G. wrote:

Quoted message said:

Okay... so, I already have all this food. That's not the problem. The problem is that i'm sharing
meal-cooking duties with two other people. Thus, they expect honest-to-goodness meals. _Not_
mashed potatoes for supper! (yes, i do mean just mashed potatoes). _Not_ just "bisquick surprise."

Thus, being the completely ignorant of American culture person that I am, I've got a riddle on my
hands: just _what_ makes a meal. Preferably, just _what_ makes a complete meal, without non-
caloric food, and using meat as flavoring and not entree?

go to a "family restaurant" that has lots of pictures on menu.

steal menu.

(reduce servings by 1/3 to compensate for photographic optimism)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lena B Katz said:

Dimitri said:

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Pine.GSO.4.58-
[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?

How much Money do you have and how hungry are they?

Under $75 a month for myself. We eat late suppers, around eight or ten at night. usually people
eat snacks about four hours earlier.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?

Healthy foods.

this doesn't tell me much about the theory... I mean, i knwo mashedpotatoes are healthy for you...
but just mashed potatoes doesn't make a meal (why, i'm not really sure).

All right, it's time for the nutrition person to chime in here. As it is usually constructed, the
"typical" US meal is described thusly:

You need a source of protein. It can be meat, fish, poultry, eggs, cheese, soy or other legumes.
With the exception of soybeans, legumes are an incomplete protein. Complement with another plant
protein source
(e.g., rice, pasta, or bread). If you buy chicken, buy a whole one and cut it up yourself. You can
freeze the backs, necks, & giblets to make soup when you get a few accumulated.

You also need at least one vegetable. Carrots are inexpensive. So are cabbage and other winter
greens (kale) this time of year. Forget fresh tomatoes in January--they're not worth the cost.
Broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts are reasonably priced now. When you see frozen peas, green
beans, or corn on sale, stock up. If you're not already having pasta or rice, you can have potatoes
or sweet potatoes.

For dessert or snacks you can have fruit. Apples, pears, and citrus fruit are reasonably priced
right now. If you want to splurge on dried fruit, go for dried apricots or dried plums.

I'm big on one dish meals like stir fries or casseroles. And no, they need not be nasty creations
involving lots of canned goods. These can stretch the protein source with vegetables and starch. And
they're good ways to use up odds and ends, like half an onion or two carrots.

For three students, look for recipes that serve 4. That may give you a little extra food that
someone can take for lunch the next day, or you may find that amount will be gone in one sitting.

One of the best ways to economize is to make your own bread, since most loaves of decent bread can
cost over $2. You can make 2-3 loaves at once on the weekend and you'll have a supply for the week.
It doesn't take that much hands-on time.

Cindy

--
e.h. Fuller

Delete the obvious to email me

Quoted message said:

The USDA doesn't give honest information, it gives the type of information it thinks will make
americans more healthy. Thus, its RDA of calcium is four times as much as the WHO's recommended
amount... mostly due to the USDA thinking that people only take in calcium from milk (and whose
fault is that, oh wonderful USDA?). It will routinely recommend you eat foods without nutritional
value, simply because its goal is to increase the overall health of the public (diet foods, like
salads, make people feel fool). I fall quite outside the range of what the USDA considers normal,
and so many of their recommendations don't make much sense to me, and in fact would be quite
unhealthy for me. Were I to blow my budget buying cucumbers, lettuce and raisins (all foods with
little nutrional value), I'd be in serious trouble.

Well, the problems we have with this type of thing (sorry for butting in) s the portion size. People
think all of this stuff is sooooo bad, but in moderation, anything is okay. Smaller portions are
key, and that is coming from an American!!!

Lena B Katz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Okay... so, I already have all this food. That's not the problem. The problem is that i'm sharing
meal-cooking duties with two other people. Thus, they expect honest-to-goodness meals. _Not_
mashed potatoes for supper! (yes, i do mean just mashed potatoes). _Not_ just "bisquick surprise."

Thus, being the completely ignorant of American culture person that I am, I've got a riddle on my
hands: just _what_ makes a meal. Preferably, just _what_ makes a complete meal, without non-
caloric food, and using meat as flavoring and not entree?

The no meat as an entree requirement eliminates the quick answer of meat, starch, vegetable that
many americans consider a normal meal, so I'll try to consider more vegetarian options.

However, your requirement to avoid non-caloric food is a larger obstacle than you may believe. Many
such foods are important flavorings. For example, celery is used in jamblaya and other creole dishes
for flavor, but is almost devoid of caloric value. Otherwise, jambalaya may fit your requirements.
It is based on rice, and thus inexpensive, uses meat more as a flavoring than an entree, and with
bread and perhaps a salad or side of some sort, would be a complete meal.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't leave out fruits and vegetables, they are a good source of vitamins and with a hectic
academic schedule, you will need plenty to stay healthy.

Tomatoes and carrots and spinach. 'bout the only vegetables you need ('sides most of the others
have almost no nutritional value). 'course, spinach is fairly poisonous....

I'll have to disagree here. Many of the cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli have significant
nutritional value. Peppers often have significant amounts of both vitamins A and C. As for spinach,
most people can tolerate huge amounts without adverse affects. On the other hand, many people have
problems with tomatoes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Balance is the largest problem. Someone already posted a link to the USDA which has good
references for nutitional info. If you go light on meat and dairy, you will have to put more
effort into getting a good balance, but it is still possible.

I'm not looking so much for "USDA recommended" as "people won't consider this to be completely
unacceptable" (as people apparently consider a meal of just mashed potatoes).

Quoted message said:

How much you feed a person depends on many factors. Are they adults ?

Adults, yes. Three please.

Quoted message said:

Do they get a lot of exercise ? For everyday meals, they amount should be based on the calories
they will burn each day.

Okay... so that's fairly easy to do when you're going off recipes and packaged stuff. how many
calories do you get from meats/vegetables? they don't seem to put that in the store...

If you can't find the info on either USDA or WHO web sites (and it is there if you look for it),
then there are many nutritional excyclopedias and diet books that have this info. Oterwise, you may
be able to calculate this from basics. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but fat has about twice
the calories per weight that carbs or proteins. If you can find percentage of fat for a meat, then
you can figure the calories. Any decent nutritional reference should tell you fat has x calories per
gram, and carbs have y calories per gram. From there it is a simple math problem. Meats contain few
carbs, so you don't have to worry about than in the equation. Starches on the other hand, are mostly
carbs and protein.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Many of the ethnic cuisines lend themselves to economical meals. Mexican, Chinese, Italian, and
Indian meals can often be cheap, and act as an example of what goes together.

Am growing sick of pasta and pasta sauce for supper, like my one roommate serves once
_every week._

Then try tortellini with pesto. Pasta works with a wide variety of sauces, not just the common red
sauces. Pestos can be made with many things including spinach as well as the usuall basil. Flavor
with small amounts of garlic, sharp cheeses such as parmesan or feta, and nuts. Use a little oil to
make the consistency you prefer.

You might also consider (vegetable) fajitas, curries, stir fries, and stews. For a meal, add rice, a
salad, and/or other sides. Potatoes can be roasted, made into salads, baked, and even made into
pancakes. They also go well in stews and curries.

Chili with some crackers and cheese could be considered a complete meal. Others are bound to
disagree, but the only real requirement is chilies or chili powder. I have made all meat and all
bean versions, and the variations are nearly endless.

Dean

"Lena B Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I posted upthread about why usda _sucks_ as a resource. besides, i'm not talking about healthy
foods... just what is culturally acceptible as a meal (we cook dinners together... if my roommates
want nutrition, they can get it on their own budget)

Lena

FRIED SPAM!

Dimitri

So, Lena -- were you eventually satisfied with the information given and what's for supper? :-) -
Barb.Schaller

In article <[email hidden]>, Lena B Katz

Quoted message said:

Just looking for some tips...

1. How much should i feed someone at supper?
2. What kinds of food should a poor shopper mix together?
3. How do I balance everything?

//I'm no longer the big meat eater I was at home... where every meal was chicken and sidedish with
salad. I'm just looking for some help on how to come up with appropriate everyday meals.

Lena

--
-Barb 12-28-03: Tourtiere picture added to my site: <www.jamlady.eboard.com> Also a picture of my
Baba Authorized struhadlo for making halushky "If you're ever in a jam, here I am."

Melba's Jammin said:

So, Lena -- were you eventually satisfied with the information given and what's for supper? :-)

Not really... but I guess I should have asked for some recipes... Stews, Soups, Cassaroles, and
other dishes which use meat but not in quantity, as well as vegetarian dishes, please. And
emphasis on cheap.

Well, today I'm coming off my french fry diet (lasted about five days... went through almost all the
potatoes in the house...). no, this isn't a diet to lose weight... just finish off about twenty
pounds of potatoes.

Lena