Mitchell and Katrina

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by the
female MD that the only thing to be done was the complete
removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

That looks like a lie, or at the very least a gross
distortion of what was said. No MD would recommend such
drastic treatment as the first line of treatment in a young
nulliparous (no offspring) woman. Did she have a
laparoscopy? That is about the only way to definitely
diagnose endometriosis. Other causes of pelvic pain are
very common.

Quoted message said:

We went to a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine
and a homeopath (a different person). My wife was very
dutiful about drinking her Chinese medical teas, which are
known to be pretty awful tasting. Homeopathy is much easier
to take. My wife's pelvic pain went away after several
months of taking Chinese medical teas and homeopathy. We
went back to the original MD, and after saying that the
endometriosis was gone, she then slammed "herbal teas".
Several years later, Katrina, the World's Greatest Girl,
was conceived.

These are the salient facts. Nothing has been added, and
nothing has been subtracted.

But it all hangs on the certainty of the diagnosis and
certain other likelihoods. Homeopathy, besides hanging on
rather lunatic ideas, has not been shown to be effective
for any condition, despite much testing. It is thus more
likely that the diagnosis was wrong or that the condition
improved by itself than that homeopathy was responsible
for the result. Some TCM herbal preparations are laced
with hormones.

Quoted message said:

The medical brown-nosers claim that they want us to make
choises based upon scientific proof, but the truth is that
they want us to plant our lips on the rear-ends of MDs and
to shut up. If we did things their way, Katrina and
Mitchell would not exist today. Medical brown-nosers and
debunker left-brainers will call me a liar. They will
attack my character. They will attack me. They will try to
hurt me and use any means available to shut me up. But it
won't work. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing.

Yes, you can even learn things from it.

Peter Moran

[email hidden] (hotmoon) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by the
female MD that the only thing to be done was the complete
removal of the ovaries and the uterus. We went to a
practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine and a
homeopath (a different person). My wife was very dutiful
about drinking her Chinese medical teas, which are known
to be pretty awful tasting. Homeopathy is much easier to
take. My wife's pelvic pain went away after several months
of taking Chinese medical teas and homeopathy. We went
back to the original MD, and after saying that the
endometriosis was gone, she then slammed "herbal teas".
Several years later, Katrina, the World's Greatest Girl,
was conceived.

These are the salient facts. Nothing has been added, and
nothing has been subtracted. The medical brown-nosers
claim that they want us to make choises based upon
scientific proof, but the truth is that they want us to
plant our lips on the rear-ends of MDs and to shut up. If
we did things their way, Katrina and Mitchell would not
exist today. Medical brown-nosers and debunker left-
brainers will call me a liar. They will attack my
character. They will attack me. They will try to hurt me
and use any means available to shut me up. But it won't
work. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing.

(:->😉

moon,

Your story does not add up.

ivf.comendohtml.htmlOpen ↗
endometriosisassn.orgendometriosisassn.orgOpen ↗

Reading through the sites indicates that a Laparoscopy is
the first thing done to confirm diagnosis.

I suggest you go back and rewrite your story so that is is
at least semi- believeable.

r

--
Nothing beats the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with
DLT tapes.

This event happened about 13 years ago, so I doubt if they
had laser surgery for endometriosis then. I know that the MD
had some other ulterior motive (money perhaps?), since total
removal is a bit extreme. When I called her on it, she just
defended the medical profession as a whole; she did not
defend her actions. The worse part was that she was so
incredibly sweet that I could not curse her to her face like
she deserved.

Medical Brown-Nosers (MBNs) impuned my character. They said
that I was lying. What a big surprise! If the evidence does
not fit into one's paradigm, then make the evidence
disappear. Isn't this great science! This is exactly what
the church elders did with Galileo. MBNs have an opportunity
to honestly try EFT for FREE, but I bet dollars to donuts
that they don't. They don't care about health. They care
about turf and paradigm and money. But when they start to
hurt desperately, and no MD healing works to relieve their
pain, then they will try something altie. I just hope that
it is not something stupid and/or MLM oriented.

This attack of alties by MBNs is not about science or health
or people's welfare. It is about turf and paradigm and
money. Did you folks know that MDs try to put optometrists
out of business? And even after losing court case after
court case to chiropractors, the MDs still try to either put
chiropractors out of business, or assimilate them.

But you gotta ask yourself, why would all of these alties be
here? Well, we know why the MBNs are here. They are being
paid by the medical profession, they are afraid of change,
they are little, tiny people jacking off their egos. But why
are the alties here? Why do they put up with all of the
abuse heaped upon them. Why is Jan Drew here? Is she perhaps
a masochist? I do not post to UFO boards. I do not write
missives in defense of the pro-UFO perspective. Why? Because
I have no experience concerning UFOs and therefore I
couldn't care less about the matter. I post here, Jan posts
here, other alties post here, because we have had positive
experiences with alternative medicine.

Yes, there are a few idiots here who are trying to make
money via some form of alties healing. Very unfortunately,
"altie" by definition is anything not mainstream medicine.
This could include people who smear their own feces on their
skin for the purpose of rejuvinating their skin (I kid you
not). It could also include MLMs, the moral equivalent to
the feces smearers mentioned above. So, yes, there are a few
alties who have motives other than health and healing and
telling the truth. But for the most part, alties post here
because they have had positive experiences of altie healing.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Mitchell and Katrina
From: [email hidden] (hotmoon)
Date: 3/14/2004 9:40 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by the
female MD that the only thing to be done was the complete
removal of the ovaries and the uterus. We went to a
practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine and a
homeopath (a different person). My wife was very dutiful
about drinking her Chinese medical teas, which are known to
be pretty awful tasting. Homeopathy is much easier to take.
My wife's pelvic pain went away after several months of
taking Chinese medical teas and homeopathy. We went back to
the original MD, and after saying that the endometriosis
was gone, she then slammed "herbal teas". Several years
later, Katrina, the World's Greatest Girl, was conceived.

These are the salient facts. Nothing has been added, and
nothing has been subtracted. The medical brown-nosers claim
that they want us to make choises based upon scientific
proof, but the truth is that they want us to plant our lips
on the rear-ends of MDs and to shut up. If we did things
their way, Katrina and Mitchell would not exist today.
Medical brown-nosers and debunker left-brainers will call
me a liar. They will attack my character. They will attack
me. They will try to hurt me and use any means available to
shut me up. But it won't work. Isn't the Internet a
wonderful thing.

(:->😉

Thanks for sharing, Roger, your point is well taken.

God Bless,

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina From: "Peter Moran"
[email hidden] Date: 3/14/2004 10:40 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id: <40554fce$0$301$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
01.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au>

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by
the female MD that the only thing to be done was the
complete removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

That looks like a lie

Exactly proving my point. Anyone who says anything outside
of medicie is immediately attacked.

This is the norm form the *gang*.

Whle all this talk of how discussion is interrupted and
impossible.

Sad. Sad. Sad

Jan

Quoted message said:

From: "Rich Andrews." [email hidden]
Date: 3/15/2004 12:27 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<snip>

Quoted message said:

moon,

Your story does not add up.

I suggest you go back and rewrite your story so that is is
at least semi- believeable.

Typical from organized medicine *gang* members.

This is an excellent example that proves the *gang* is
guilty of exact what the accuse others of.

Truth is, they don't want to hear anything not endorsed by
organized medicine.

Jan

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina
From: [email hidden] (hotmoon)
Date: 3/15/2004 8:42 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

You betcha, Roger. The *gang* just keeps proving WHY they
are here, they are filled with much hate. It shows, they are
so predictable.

Happens eveyrtime, while they are whining that a decent
discussion is impossibe.

God Bless,

Jan

Quoted message said:

This event happened about 13 years ago, so I doubt if they
had laser surgery for endometriosis then. I know that the
MD had some other ulterior motive (money perhaps?), since
total removal is a bit extreme. When I called her on it,
she just defended the medical profession as a whole; she
did not defend her actions. The worse part was that she was
so incredibly sweet that I could not curse her to her face
like she deserved.

Medical Brown-Nosers (MBNs) impuned my character. They said
that I was lying. What a big surprise! If the evidence does
not fit into one's paradigm, then make the evidence
disappear. Isn't this great science! This is exactly what
the church elders did with Galileo. MBNs have an
opportunity to honestly try EFT for FREE, but I bet dollars
to donuts that they don't. They don't care about health.
They care about turf and paradigm and money. But when they
start to hurt desperately, and no MD healing works to
relieve their pain, then they will try something altie. I
just hope that it is not something stupid and/or MLM
oriented.

This attack of alties by MBNs is not about science or
health or people's welfare. It is about turf and paradigm
and money. Did you folks know that MDs try to put
optometrists out of business? And even after losing court
case after court case to chiropractors, the MDs still try
to either put chiropractors out of business, or
assimilate them.

But you gotta ask yourself, why would all of these alties
be here? Well, we know why the MBNs are here. They are
being paid by the medical profession, they are afraid of
change, they are little, tiny people jacking off their
egos. But why are the alties here? Why do they put up with
all of the abuse heaped upon them. Why is Jan Drew here? Is
she perhaps a masochist? I do not post to UFO boards. I do
not write missives in defense of the pro-UFO perspective.
Why? Because I have no experience concerning UFOs and
therefore I couldn't care less about the matter. I post
here, Jan posts here, other alties post here, because we
have had positive experiences with alternative medicine.

Yes, there are a few idiots here who are trying to make
money via some form of alties healing. Very unfortunately,
"altie" by definition is anything not mainstream medicine.
This could include people who smear their own feces on
their skin for the purpose of rejuvinating their skin (I
kid you not). It could also include MLMs, the moral
equivalent to the feces smearers mentioned above. So, yes,
there are a few alties who have motives other than health
and healing and telling the truth. But for the most part,
alties post here because they have had positive experiences
of altie healing.

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by the
female MD that the only thing to be done was the complete
removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

At that point you should have walked right out of her office
and found another Dr. There as some Dr's every bit as bad as
some Nutropaths and Homeopaths out there.

We went to a practitioner of

Quoted message said:

traditional Chinese medicine and a homeopath (a different
person). My wife was very dutiful about drinking her
Chinese medical teas, which are known to be pretty awful
tasting. Homeopathy is much easier to take. My wife's
pelvic pain went away after several months of taking
Chinese medical teas and homeopathy.

Then you had a miracle happen because endometriosis isn't an
easy condition to render painless. If Chinese tea cured it
every women on earth would already know about it.

We went back to the original MD,

Quoted message said:

and after saying that the endometriosis was gone, she then
slammed "herbal teas". Several years later, Katrina, the
World's Greatest Girl, was conceived.

Why did you go back to the original MD at all after your
wife was magically CURED of her endo?

Quoted message said:

These are the salient facts. Nothing has been added, and
nothing has been subtracted.

Then your wife did not have endo. No Dr can diagnose endo in
the office by palpating the abdomen or doing an internal on
the women. Endo is diagnosed in other ways. You better do a
some research on this condition before making yourself look
like fool.

The medical brown-nosers claim that they want us to

Quoted message said:

make choises based upon scientific proof, but the truth is
that they want us to plant our lips on the rear-ends of
MDs and to shut up.

Just like the the Quacks out there, eh?

If

Quoted message said:

we did things their way, Katrina and Mitchell would not
exist today. Medical brown-nosers and debunker left-
brainers will call me a liar.

You are a liar. No Dr can diagnose endometriosis in
their office.

Quoted message said:

They will attack my character. They will attack me.
They will try to hurt me and use any means available to
shut me up. But it won't work. Isn't the Internet a
wonderful thing.

(:->😉

It's a wonderful tool for Quacks to find new victims - and
for others to expose said Quacks. ;-) Now go do some
research on endo' to make your story more believable.
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

X-No-Archive: yes

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40554fce$0$301$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
01.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au...

Quoted message said:

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.
Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by
the female MD that the only thing to be done was the
complete removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

Quoted message said:

That looks like a lie, or at the very least a gross
distortion of what was said. No MD would recommend such
drastic treatment as the first line of treatment in a
young nulliparous (no offspring) woman. Did she have a
laparoscopy? That is about the only way to definitely
diagnose endometriosis. Other causes of pelvic pain are
very common.

EXACTLY!!!!! To use the mentality of the Clark followers on
this NG he's a paid shill for unconventional
medicine/quackery. His big mistake is to choose a medical
condition that can't be diagnosed in a Drs office although
the Dr may "suspect" endo. He gave himself away.......

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We went to a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine
and a homeopath (a different person). My wife was very
dutiful about drinking her Chinese medical teas, which
are known to be pretty awful tasting. Homeopathy is much
easier to take. My wife's pelvic pain went away after
several months of taking Chinese medical teas and
homeopathy. We went back to the original MD, and after
saying that the endometriosis was gone, she then slammed
"herbal teas". Several years later, Katrina, the World's
Greatest Girl, was conceived. These are the salient
facts. Nothing has been added, and nothing has been
subtracted.

Quoted message said:

But it all hangs on the certainty of the diagnosis and
certain other likelihoods. Homeopathy, besides hanging on
rather lunatic ideas, has

not

Quoted message said:

been shown to be effective for any condition, despite much
testing. It

is

Quoted message said:

thus more likely that the diagnosis was wrong or that the
condition

improved

Quoted message said:

by itself than that homeopathy was responsible for the
result. Some TCM herbal preparations are laced with
hormones.

His wife probably had a few painful ovulations or small cyst
that resolved itself.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The medical brown-nosers claim that they want us to make
choises based upon scientific proof, but the truth is
that they want us to plant our lips on the rear-ends of
MDs and to shut up. If we did things their way, Katrina
and Mitchell would not exist today. Medical brown-nosers
and debunker left-brainers will call me a liar. They will
attack my character. They will attack me. They will try
to hurt me and use any means available to shut me up. But
it won't work. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing.

Yes, you can even learn things from it.

Peter Moran

--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This event happened about 13 years ago, so I doubt if they
had laser surgery for endometriosis then.

They had it and I'm here to confirm it! :-)

I know that the MD had some other

Quoted message said:

ulterior motive (money perhaps?), since total removal is a
bit extreme. When I called her on it, she just defended
the medical profession as a whole; she did not defend her
actions. The worse part was that she was so incredibly
sweet that I could not curse her to her face like she
deserved.

Think up a better story. Called her on it?

Quoted message said:

Medical Brown-Nosers (MBNs) impuned my character. They
said that I was lying. What a big surprise!

What did she accuse YOU of lying about?

If the evidence does not fit into

Quoted message said:

one's paradigm, then make the evidence disappear. Isn't
this great science! This is exactly what the church elders
did with Galileo. MBNs have an opportunity to honestly try
EFT for FREE, but I bet dollars to donuts that they don't.
They don't care about health.

Endometriosis isn't cured or treated with teas. How did he
know she had endo? How did he diagnose her? Did the man do
an exploratory on your wife to confirm she had endo? Right
there in his herb shop? In the back-room perhaps?

--- rant snipped ---
--
Kim Please note, I don't wish to get involved in any
personal conflicts between the posters here. I'm simply
looking for answers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by
the female MD that the only thing to be done was the
complete removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

That looks like a lie, or at the very least a gross
distortion of what was said. No MD would recommend such
drastic treatment as the first line of treatment in a
young nulliparous (no offspring) woman. Did she have a
laparoscopy? That is about the only way to definitely
diagnose endometriosis. Other causes of pelvic pain are
very common.

A laparoscopy is what most GYN's order when serious
endometriosis is suspected. An MD will rule out other causes
of pelvic pain before recommending surgery or other
treatment. And even if one did encounter the rare GYN that
might jump to such conclusions, a second opinion of another
GYN probably would have led to the same happy ending.

Sometimes docs tell the patient *all* the possibilities in
an attempt to avoid the patient later saying "nobody told me
anything about that" if the most drastic option eventually
needs to be taken after trying others. Unfortunately, this
may be the only thing the MD says that sticks in the
patient's mind. Perhaps breaking things down in steps as
diagnosis & treatment proceed would be better, but I can
understand that a doc may view discussing the whole
enchilada as giving their patient all what they need to be
*fully informed*.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

We went to a practitioner of traditional Chinese medicine
and a homeopath (a different person). My wife was very
dutiful about drinking her Chinese medical teas, which
are known to be pretty awful tasting. Homeopathy is much
easier to take. My wife's pelvic pain went away after
several months of taking Chinese medical teas and
homeopathy. We went back to the original MD, and after
saying that the endometriosis was gone, she then slammed
"herbal teas". Several years later, Katrina, the World's
Greatest Girl, was conceived.

These are the salient facts. Nothing has been added, and
nothing has been subtracted.

But it all hangs on the certainty of the diagnosis and
certain other likelihoods. Homeopathy, besides hanging on
rather lunatic ideas, has not been shown to be effective
for any condition, despite much testing. It is thus more
likely that the diagnosis was wrong or that the condition
improved by itself than that homeopathy was responsible
for the result. Some TCM herbal preparations are laced
with hormones.

Without laparoscopy results before & after your wife's
treatment, it's uncertain if endometriosis was the problem.
Hormonal imbalances, infections, & other disorders can
present the same s/s & over time, these conditions can
improve with or without any treatment. Even the reduction of
a patient's stress as the result of doing *something* about
their situation can be of help & I think homeopathy may be
of value if used as a placebo. [Placebos can be or GREAT
help in involving pts. in their treatment, reducing feelings
of helplessness, & utilizing the incredible power of the
mind to help heal the body. Even WRT disorders that require
more than what the pt's mind can do to heal, placebo use can
be teamed up with both alt. & conventional treatments.
Placebos -- whether homeopathy, crystals, or any other --
don't take the place of other treatments in such cases, but
we shouldn't dismiss the powerful effect they can add to the
pt's overall treatment.]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The medical brown-nosers claim that they want us to make
choises based upon scientific proof, but the truth is
that they want us to plant our lips on the rear-ends of
MDs and to shut up. If we did things their way, Katrina
and Mitchell would not exist today. Medical brown-nosers
and debunker left-brainers will call me a liar. They will
attack my character. They will attack me. They will try
to hurt me and use any means available to shut me up. But
it won't work. Isn't the Internet a wonderful thing.

The truth isn't fearful of proof. I'm happy for you & your
wife that things worked out for you. Finding out for sure
what the reasons were for this happy ending might help other
couples find theirs too.

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina
From: [email hidden] (Jan)
Date: 3/15/2004 9:23 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Typical from organized medicine *gang* members.

This is an excellent example that proves the *gang* is
guilty of exact what the accuse others of.

Quoted message said:

Truth is, they don't want to hear anything not endorsed by
organized medicine.

Jan

NAHHHH Janny

we of the EOM simply want ALL the facts...which were not
presented here...

as others have said...endometrosis cannot be diagnosed
without a lap...so it was only a guess that the wife
actually suffered from it at all..

I have MANY friends and patients with endo...many HAVE
conceived...there ARE accepted medical treatments
available...

I personally have endo...I conceived twice...

anyone suggesting a hyster for endo without trying the more
conventional stuff..is to be disbelieved...

nothing wrong with alt stuff...but in this case...there are
many conventional stuff that does the job

that is...IF endo was the problem in the first place..

as stated..pelvic pain has many etiologies... hawki.....

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina From: "Peter Moran"
[email hidden] Date: 3/14/2004 10:40 PM Pacific
Standard Time Message-id:

<40554fce$0$301$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-
01.brisbane.pipenetworks.com.au

Quoted message said:

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Before my babies were born, my wife was diagnosed with
endometriosis. When she complained of pelvic pain, the
first thing that I did was to go to an MD to get a
diagnosis. We got the above diagnosis, and was told by
the female MD that the only thing to be done was the
complete removal of the ovaries and the uterus.

That looks like a lie

Exactly proving my point. Anyone who says anything outside
of medicie is immediately attacked.

This is the norm form the *gang*.

Whle all this talk of how discussion is interrupted and
impossible.

Sad. Sad. Sad

Jan

Hotmoon's story depicted a doctor as willing to do a
hysterectomy on a young, nulliparous woman without an
adequate diagnostic workup. Malpractice at that level is
extremely rare. That makes the story sound invented, in
other words, a lie. Peter pointed this out and went on to
discuss the unlikelihood of the Chinese medicinal teas
having contributed to the lady's recovery.

This is a process known as "discussion," Jan. Unfortunately,
your inability to discriminate between discussion and
invective renders you incapable of the former.

That is sad.

--Rich

Excellent post!

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This event happened about 13 years ago, so I doubt if they
had laser surgery for endometriosis then. I know that the
MD had some other ulterior motive (money perhaps?), since
total removal is a bit extreme. When I called her on it,
she just defended the medical profession as a whole; she
did not defend her actions. The worse part was that she
was so incredibly sweet that I could not curse her to her
face like she deserved.

Medical Brown-Nosers (MBNs) impuned my character. They
said that I was lying. What a big surprise! If the
evidence does not fit into one's paradigm, then make the
evidence disappear. Isn't this great science! This is
exactly what the church elders did with Galileo. MBNs have
an opportunity to honestly try EFT for FREE, but I bet
dollars to donuts that they don't. They don't care about
health. They care about turf and paradigm and money. But
when they start to hurt desperately, and no MD healing
works to relieve their pain, then they will try something
altie. I just hope that it is not something stupid and/or
MLM oriented.

This attack of alties by MBNs is not about science or
health or people's welfare. It is about turf and paradigm
and money. Did you folks know that MDs try to put
optometrists out of business? And even after losing court
case after court case to chiropractors, the MDs still try
to either put chiropractors out of business, or
assimilate them.

But you gotta ask yourself, why would all of these alties
be here? Well, we know why the MBNs are here. They are
being paid by the medical profession, they are afraid of
change, they are little, tiny people jacking off their
egos. But why are the alties here? Why do they put up with
all of the abuse heaped upon them. Why is Jan Drew here?
Is she perhaps a masochist? I do not post to UFO boards. I
do not write missives in defense of the pro-UFO
perspective. Why? Because I have no experience concerning
UFOs and therefore I couldn't care less about the matter.
I post here, Jan posts here, other alties post here,
because we have had positive experiences with alternative
medicine.

Yes, there are a few idiots here who are trying to make
money via some form of alties healing. Very unfortunately,
"altie" by definition is anything not mainstream medicine.
This could include people who smear their own feces on
their skin for the purpose of rejuvinating their skin (I
kid you not). It could also include MLMs, the moral
equivalent to the feces smearers mentioned above. So, yes,
there are a few alties who have motives other than health
and healing and telling the truth. But for the most part,
alties post here because they have had positive
experiences of altie healing.

In article <[email hidden]>,

hotmoon said:

Mitchell and Katrina, two extremely precious children,
would not exist today if I was a medical brown-noser.

Unlike some participants, I'm not going to accuse you of
lying about your story. But if things happened as you
describe them, it sounds much more like a case of
malpractice than anything else. You certainly can't use it
as an indictment of doctors in general.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"hotmoon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This event happened about 13 years ago, so I doubt if they
had laser surgery for endometriosis then.

They had laparoscopy which was and is the only way to
definitively diagnose endometriosis. If endometriosis was
diagnosed, radical total hysterectomy was not the first-line
treatment. Hormonal therapy and (maybe) conservative surgery
would be tried first. That's what makes the story of a
doctor suggesting hysterectomy before even doing a lap
somewhat suspect. I am not accusing you of lying, but memory
is fallible, and perhaps the doctor only informed you that a
hysterectomy may become necessary?

Quoted message said:

I know that the MD had some other ulterior motive (money
perhaps?), since total removal is a bit extreme. When I
called her on it, she just defended the medical profession
as a whole; she did not defend her actions. The worse part
was that she was so incredibly sweet that I could not
curse her to her face like she deserved.

No need to curse...just equally sweetly request a second
opinion. Any competent doctor will agree to this and even
help arrange it. If your doctor will not, find a
different doctor.

Quoted message said:

Medical Brown-Nosers (MBNs) impuned my character. They
said that I was lying. What a big surprise! If the
evidence does not fit into one's paradigm, then make the
evidence disappear. Isn't this great science! This is
exactly what the church elders did with Galileo.

Well, not exactly. Peter said it "looks like a lie," which
comes short of a bald accusation of lying. Your memory of
fifteen years ago does not constitute evidence, and is
pretty weak even as an anecdote. As for the Galileo
referrence, nobody is threatening to burn you at the stake
or even to place you under house arrest. You haven't even
been given a schoolyard nickname like "MBN."

Quoted message said:

MBNs have an opportunity to honestly try EFT for FREE, but
I bet dollars to donuts that they don't. They don't care
about health. They care about turf and paradigm and money.
But when they start to hurt desperately, and no MD healing
works to relieve their pain, then they will try something
altie. I just hope that it is not something stupid and/or
MLM oriented.

This attack of alties by MBNs is not about science or
health or people's welfare. It is about turf and paradigm
and money. Did you folks know that MDs try to put
optometrists out of business? And even after losing court
case after court case to chiropractors, the MDs still try
to either put chiropractors out of business, or
assimilate them.

Hmm. The last time I was at my optometrist, my doctor was
there getting glasses for his daughter. One of the local
ophthalmalogists has an optometrist in her office. None of
the doctors I know are campaigning against the chiros.

Quoted message said:

But you gotta ask yourself, why would all of these
alties be here? Well, we know why the MBNs are here.
They are being paid by the medical profession, they are
afraid of change, they are little, tiny people jacking
off their egos.

Nobody is getting paid to post here. Change is constant and
welcome in medicine. < Gratuitous insult ignored >

Quoted message said:

But why are the alties here? Why do they put up with all
of the abuse heaped upon them. Why is Jan Drew here? Is
she perhaps a masochist? I do not post to UFO boards. I do
not write missives in defense of the pro-UFO perspective.
Why? Because I have no experience concerning UFOs and
therefore I couldn't care less about the matter. I post
here, Jan posts here, other alties post here, because we
have had positive experiences with alternative medicine.

Fine, enjoy your positive experiences. But when you
extrapolate your experience to promote, for example,
Chinese herbal tea as a curative for endometriosis, expect
to be called on it. I, for one, am here to defend
scientific knowledge and medicine against "all of the abuse
heaped upon them."

Quoted message said:

Yes, there are a few idiots here who are trying to make
money via some form of alties healing. Very unfortunately,
"altie" by definition is anything not mainstream medicine.
This could include people who smear their own feces on
their skin for the purpose of rejuvinating their skin (I
kid you not). It could also include MLMs, the moral
equivalent to the feces smearers mentioned above. So, yes,
there are a few alties who have motives other than health
and healing and telling the truth.

Someone has to draw the line.

Quoted message said:

But for the most part, alties post here because they have
had positive experiences of altie healing.

So why can't they discuss their positive experiences without
bashing the medical professions?

--Rich

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina
From: "Kim" [email hidden]
Date: 3/15/04 12:32 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At that point you should have walked right out of her
office and found another Dr. There as some Dr's every bit
as bad as some Nutropaths and Homeopaths out there.

What a twit. What a maroon. " There are some doctors every
bit as bad as some Nutropaths."

No homeopath or nautropath is allowed by law or would by
education do what MDs will do to a human in the name of
"medicine" or "cure".

You really have your head up your....well I have a
choice here. Chose your angle of delfection. The results
are the same.

Quoted message said:

Then you had a miracle happen because endometriosis isn't
an easy condition to render painless.

This disease really mytifies me.

How do cells migrate? Do they have wings? Do they have
flagella? Do they just wiggle to move? Just how in the hell
do cells, cells locked in place, migrate to other parts of
the body????

My God, it is easier to belive in Santa Claus coming down
the chimney.

DrC PhD

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Mitchell and Katrina From: "Kim"
[email hidden] Date: 3/15/04 12:32 PM Eastern Standard
Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

At that point you should have walked right out of her
office and found another Dr. There as some Dr's every bit
as bad as some Nutropaths and Homeopaths out there.

What a twit. What a maroon. " There are some doctors every
bit as bad as some Nutropaths."

No homeopath or nautropath is allowed by law or would by
education do what MDs will do to a human in the name of
"medicine" or "cure".

You really have your head up your....well I have a
choice here. Chose your angle of delfection. The results
are the same.

Quoted message said:

Then you had a miracle happen because endometriosis isn't
an easy condition to render painless.

This disease really mytifies me.

How do cells migrate? Do they have wings? Do they have
flagella? Do they just wiggle to move? Just how in the hell
do cells, cells locked in place, migrate to other parts of
the body????

Chuck has apparently never heard of the bloodstream or lymph
system, both of which are quite good at transporting things
-- including cells.

Quoted message said:

My God, it is easier to belive in Santa Claus coming down
the chimney.

...than that Chalupa Chuck will ever start making any sense.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

(Jan) said:

Whenever Jews call you anti-Semitics is always their
reaction to when they lose an argument or a deal and thus
do admit that it is no-one but they themselves, the Jews,
that are THE cause for all anti-Semitism.

Can Jan's hole get any deeper. Another real keeper.

So Jan is blaming the Jews for the six million that were
exterminated in Nazi Germany. After all they are the cause
for all anti-semitism!! Lord have mercy.

Maybe Jan is blaming Jesus Christ for anti-semitism. After
all Jesus was Jewish. He lived a Jew. He died a Jew. Before
he died he forgave those who were crucifying him. Jesus
preached forgiveness. That is why it is clear that Jan Drew
is not a Christian. Jan Drew bears grudges and forgives no
one who slights her. She will repeat the slights whenever
she gets upset at those she hates. Sad that.

Is this a Jan Drew original or did she find it at some
Nazi website??

Aloha,

Rich

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The best defense to logic is ignorance