Moaning Minnie

David Martin said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit and if
she didn't like the exortionate cost of the universities car parking
charges, she could always abandon the universities car parking and use
the next door council lot instead. Or park further away and walk for a
bit. Or even try a different form of transport.

I doubt she'll reply.

Oh, I think you might be surprised. Where I worked a while ago there was
a similar issue. When somebody challenged the assumption that being
given a car park space on the doorstep of one's place of work was an
inalienable right, there was an extraordinary outraged response from the
car commuters.

--
Joe * If I cannot be free I'll be cheap

David Martin said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

I have heard Universities defined as "a group of people bound together
by a common obsession with car parking"

Tony

David Martin said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit

Sorry to be dim, but what's the "residual benefit", and how is it taxed?

Richard said:

David Martin said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit

Sorry to be dim, but what's the "residual benefit", and how is it taxed?

AIUI, If the employer provides a benefit, such as a company car, then the
value of this benefit can be taken into account when calculating your income
tax. In this case there is an intrinsic value in having a parking space (cf.
the council car park next door which charges far more) and the payment made
for this is much less than its true value [1]
The residual benefit is the amount of apparent subsidy the employer
provides.

She is mostly wingeing becasue she has to pay parking tickets for parking
outwith legitimate spaces..

...d

[1] as determined by the IR.

I got a reply..

Apparently she needs the car to transport samples (that cannot be taken on
the shuttle service) between two campusses. Add to that being heavily
pregnant. Leaving a car parking space it is frequently possible that all
spcaes will be occupied by the time she returns.

I suggested she examine her insurance to see whether she is allowed to use
her car for that, and if not to take taxis (charged to the lab). Thta would
solve most of the problems she has.

...d

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

About 50p per working day (or £1 per working University day) sounds
brilliant value to me. I understand town centre parking here costs over a
fiver a day. Tell her she's lucky to work for such a generous employer.

Then tax the [censored].

T

Tony W said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

About 50p per working day (or £1 per working University day) sounds
brilliant value to me. I understand town centre parking here costs over a
fiver a day. Tell her she's lucky to work for such a generous employer.

Then tax the [censored].

Don't get me started on car parking charges. Gosport (a nearby town) has
implemented its first ever charging. Ye Gods, judging by the response in
letters page of the local press you'd have thought the Council had
adopted a policy of slaughtering the first born.

Apparently, the econmony will fail, businesses fail, unemployment rise
and house prices collapse.

I just don't get the maths. An hour parking your metallic painted, air
conditioned bath chair will cost 50p. How far can you get in a car for
50p when fuel is >80p a litre? 8 miles? That'll take you to sunny
Fareham where parking costs 70p.

Let's also not forget that 30% of households in Gosport don't even have
a car yet, to date, have been paying the council tax required to set
aside acres and acres of highly valuable town centre development land
for free parking.

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:56:04 +0000 someone who may be Not Responding
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Let's also not forget that 30% of households in Gosport don't even have
a car yet, to date, have been paying the council tax required to set
aside acres and acres of highly valuable town centre development land
for free parking.

Even if parking is not "free" it might still be subsidised from
general taxation. Many Councils claim every year that they will
balance the books on parking next year, but never manage to get
round to doing so.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen said:

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:56:04 +0000 someone who may be Not Responding
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Let's also not forget that 30% of households in Gosport don't even have
a car yet, to date, have been paying the council tax required to set
aside acres and acres of highly valuable town centre development land
for free parking.

Even if parking is not "free" it might still be subsidised from
general taxation. Many Councils claim every year that they will
balance the books on parking next year, but never manage to get
round to doing so.

Last time I did the sums (with some horrendous estimations of land
value, capacity per acre, % utilisation etc) I came up with a charge of
around £1 an hour as representing a fair return (against current low
interest rates). So in Fareham, we're not too far off and we're getting
closer every year.

David Martin said:

Richard said:

David Martin said:

Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about the
cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car parking
spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year and she
thought it was unfair.

I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit

Sorry to be dim, but what's the "residual benefit", and how is it taxed?

AIUI, If the employer provides a benefit, such as a company car, then the
value of this benefit can be taken into account when calculating your income
tax. In this case there is an intrinsic value in having a parking space (cf.
the council car park next door which charges far more) and the payment made
for this is much less than its true value [1]
The residual benefit is the amount of apparent subsidy the employer
provides.

Doesn't it only count as a benefit if you can use it for non-work
purposes? I don't see how a parking space at work would qualify. I
remember a big arguement with the IR about mobile 'phones a few years
back, and if you used them for personal calls, they were a taxable
benefit. if you didn't, they weren't.

Pete

Ningi said:

Doesn't it only count as a benefit if you can use it for non-work
purposes? I don't see how a parking space at work would qualify. I
remember a big arguement with the IR about mobile 'phones a few years
back, and if you used them for personal calls, they were a taxable
benefit. if you didn't, they weren't.

At the moment, car parking is specifically excluded from being
considered a benefit in kind. If it were not so excluded, you are right,
the test would be whether the parking is work related. Commuting of
course would not count but parking a works van or pool car probably would.

The value of all day parking in a town centre is around £10 a day.
That's a huge benefit in kind and if the company were to assist with any
other mode of commute with that level of subsidy it'd feature on my
P111D and I'd get a bill from the IR for £4 per day.

Not Responding said:

Last time I did the sums (with some horrendous estimations of land
value, capacity per acre, % utilisation etc) I came up with a charge of
around £1 an hour as representing a fair return (against current low
interest rates).

I had a Japanese friend who, at the peak of the Tokyo property boom, had
a mission to own a car worth more than the land it was parked on. The
best he managed was buying a car that was worth more than the land the
tyres occupied.

Tony

in message <[email hidden]>, Ningi

(') said:

David Martin said:

On 18/2/05 9:14 am, in article [email hidden],

Richard said:

David Martin wrote:

>Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about
>the cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car
>parking spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year
>and she thought it was unfair.
>
>I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit

Sorry to be dim, but what's the "residual benefit", and how is it
taxed?

AIUI, If the employer provides a benefit, such as a company car, then
the value of this benefit can be taken into account when calculating
your income tax. In this case there is an intrinsic value in having a
parking space (cf. the council car park next door which charges far
more) and the payment made for this is much less than its true value
[1] The residual benefit is the amount of apparent subsidy the
employer provides.

Doesn't it only count as a benefit if you can use it for non-work
purposes? I don't see how a parking space at work would qualify.

You don't use your parking space for work. Work is entirely indifferent
to how you get there and how you store your conveyance. Getting to work
(and going home again) is not part of work, and work does not (in
general) require you to bring a car.

If your employer supplies you with a vehicle to use as part of your
employment during the working day, then parking that should not be
taxable (and shouldn't come out of your pocket in the first place). But
parking the car you drove to work is your problem, and if you get
subsidised parking, that's taxable.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig intentionally left blank ]

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Ningi

(') said:

David Martin said:

On 18/2/05 9:14 am, in article [email hidden],
"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>David Martin wrote:
>
>
>>Someone has just emailed one of the lists at work complaining about
>>the cost of car parking on campus and the imminent loss of car
>>parking spaces. Apparently car parking now costs 122 quid per year
>>and she thought it was unfair.
>>
>>I do too. I suggested she should be taxed on teh residual benefit
>
>Sorry to be dim, but what's the "residual benefit", and how is it
>taxed?

AIUI, If the employer provides a benefit, such as a company car, then
the value of this benefit can be taken into account when calculating
your income tax. In this case there is an intrinsic value in having a
parking space (cf. the council car park next door which charges far
more) and the payment made for this is much less than its true value
[1] The residual benefit is the amount of apparent subsidy the
employer provides.

Doesn't it only count as a benefit if you can use it for non-work
purposes? I don't see how a parking space at work would qualify.

You don't use your parking space for work. Work is entirely indifferent
to how you get there and how you store your conveyance. Getting to work
(and going home again) is not part of work, and work does not (in
general) require you to bring a car.

If your employer supplies you with a vehicle to use as part of your
employment during the working day, then parking that should not be
taxable (and shouldn't come out of your pocket in the first place). But
parking the car you drove to work is your problem, and if you get
subsidised parking, that's taxable.

There's an interesting situation here. Company provided parking isn't a
taxable benefit, but would that include paying for parking at work.

This page appears to answer the question.

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01030.htm

As does this one, sort of.

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/eim21685.htm

Pete

On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:58:48 GMT someone who may be Ningi
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I
remember a big arguement with the IR about mobile 'phones a few years
back, and if you used them for personal calls, they were a taxable
benefit. if you didn't, they weren't.

There was a row in Edinburgh a few years ago. Councillors are
provided with a bus pass to allow them to go about their business.
One was criticised (by a party political opponent) for using this
bus pass to go to work. The last I heard the ridiculous "solution"
being offered by the paper pushers was to have two bus passes. All
this due to ridiculous rules put in place by the tax mob, who have
subsidised cars for decades.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

Ningi said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There's an interesting situation here. Company provided parking isn't a
taxable benefit, but would that include paying for parking at work.

This page appears to answer the question.

http://www.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01030.htm

To quote:

"Any payment or reimbursement of expenses in connection with the
provision for, or use by, an employee of a car parking space at or near
the employee’s workplace is not chargeable to tax.

For the meaning of "at or near the employee’s workplace" see EIM21685.

The provision of workplace parking as a benefit, or by way of vouchers
or credit tokens, is also exempt from tax. See EIM21685 and EIM16100."

Which makes a mockery of any suggestion that joined up government is
working towards a sustainable economy. Here £10 a day of free parking is
tax-free and virtually universally offered by employers whereas a £3.90
travelcard would result in a £4.30 or £7.80 weekly tax bill.