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Modify LED Headlight Beam ? ?

Started by jbuch · · Last activity · 12 posts · 788 views

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Published
27 September 2005
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3 October 2005
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jbuch
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  1. I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light dispersion
    of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the Nite
    Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).

    Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the type
    commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The one with
    the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking it is hitting a
    single curved surface, more or less.)

    Holding it over the front of the light, any of the above, really spreads
    the light out.

    Variations eventually will include slicing the Fresnel lens into parts
    and covering part of the headlight so as to allow some of the beam to
    stay "pencil beam" and yet disperse some light for better near bike
    visibility, particularly for turns.

    If one had Fresnel lenses of different focal lengths, one could probably
    tailor the light beam into something much more useful than the simple
    "pencil beam" that is really bright.

    I find that in turning a corner, it is riding into the darkness off of
    the bright pencil beam.... and that is no fun.

    Tonight I am off with the three lights mentioned and a roll of clear
    tape to experiment.

    I already know that the beam is more dispersed with the whole headlight
    face covered with the Fresnel lens.

    --
    1) Eat Till SATISFIED, Not STUFFED... Atkins repeated 9 times in the book
    2) Exercise: It's Non-Negotiable..... Chapter 22 title, Atkins book
    3) Don't Diet Without Supplimental Nutrients... Chapter 23 title, Atkins
    book
    4) A sensible eating plan, and follow it. (Atkins, Self Made or Other)

  2. "jbuch" wrote: (clip) I find that in turning a corner, it is riding into
    the darkness off of the bright pencil beam.... and that is no fun. (clip)
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    How about a helmet light, along with your pencil-beam, handlebar mounted LED
    headlight?

  3. jbuch said:

    I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light dispersion
    of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    Have you looked into the Planet Bike SuperSpot 1W LED light?

    It's definitely not a "pencil beam". For the first time since getting
    that light along with an EL-500, I rode with the two combined and they
    complement each other very well.

    --
    I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
    legitimate replies.

  4. jbuch said:

    I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light dispersion
    of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the Nite
    Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).

    Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the type
    commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The one with
    the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking it is hitting a
    single curved surface, more or less.)

    The Fresnel lens did spread the light beam on all headlights.

    EL-300 The result was five light "halos" rather than one beam. The
    light intensity was pretty low as a result of the spreading. It was more
    or less useless. If you spread out 400 claimed candlepower, it is
    pretty dim.

    EL-500 The result was a large light "halo" rather than a pencil. The
    effort to cover just 1/2 of the beam with the Fresnel lens produced a
    mixture of a "beam" and a "Halo", but it wasn't a very useful pattern
    for riding. Again, this lamp produces a claimed 1200 candlepower, and
    when spread out very much, it isn't a lot.

    Nite Hawk LED Emitter - The result was a larger diameter spot rather
    than the narrow pencil. There still wasn't much scattered light to see
    ahead of you while turning, or thinking about turning. The larger spot
    was a nicer medium speed ride than anything else, including any of the
    headlamps without the Fresnel lens.

    I would suspect that _I_ would be happy wtih outputs of nearly five
    times higher than the EL-500 or the Nite Hawk - and in a beamwhich has
    riding functinality.

    I saw a 1928 Ford Model A today on my exercise ride and stopped to take
    a look.

    The headlamps had the classic bulb, reflector, and focusing front lens.
    The focus elements in the front lens were simple vertical cylinder
    sections, so as to spread the beam out laterally. No optical elements
    were in use to control the fine details of beam forming except in the
    lateral direction.

    More modern headlamps that I looked at had complex optical segmentation
    of small lenses that appeared to provide beam manipulation in both
    directions which may be why modern auto headlamps perform pretty well.

    Bicycle LED lights currently have none of this secondary beam forming
    optical design.

    I can't speak to the beam optics control of HID or tungsten-halide lamps.

    At anyy rate, LED headlights have a long way to go to be mature. Right
    now, they are immature in design and performance.

    Jim

  5. jbuch said:
    jbuch said:

    I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light
    dispersion of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the
    Nite Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).

    Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the type
    commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The one with
    the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking it is
    hitting a single curved surface, more or less.)

    The Fresnel lens did spread the light beam on all headlights.

    EL-300 The result was five light "halos" rather than one beam. The
    light intensity was pretty low as a result of the spreading. It was
    more or less useless. If you spread out 400 claimed candlepower, it
    is pretty dim.

    EL-500 The result was a large light "halo" rather than a pencil. The
    effort to cover just 1/2 of the beam with the Fresnel lens produced a
    mixture of a "beam" and a "Halo", but it wasn't a very useful pattern
    for riding. Again, this lamp produces a claimed 1200 candlepower, and
    when spread out very much, it isn't a lot.

    Nite Hawk LED Emitter - The result was a larger diameter spot rather
    than the narrow pencil. There still wasn't much scattered light to
    see ahead of you while turning, or thinking about turning. The larger
    spot was a nicer medium speed ride than anything else, including any
    of the headlamps without the Fresnel lens.

    I would suspect that _I_ would be happy wtih outputs of nearly five
    times higher than the EL-500 or the Nite Hawk - and in a beamwhich has
    riding functinality.

    I saw a 1928 Ford Model A today on my exercise ride and stopped to
    take a look.

    The headlamps had the classic bulb, reflector, and focusing front
    lens. The focus elements in the front lens were simple vertical
    cylinder sections, so as to spread the beam out laterally. No optical
    elements were in use to control the fine details of beam forming
    except in the lateral direction.

    More modern headlamps that I looked at had complex optical
    segmentation of small lenses that appeared to provide beam
    manipulation in both directions which may be why modern auto
    headlamps perform pretty well.
    Bicycle LED lights currently have none of this secondary beam forming
    optical design.

    I can't speak to the beam optics control of HID or tungsten-halide
    lamps.
    At anyy rate, LED headlights have a long way to go to be mature. Right
    now, they are immature in design and performance.

    The lenses are designed from the factory to focus very sharply. They give
    off comparatively little light to the sides, making reflectors kinda
    useless. A specific prism might be able to split the light just the way you
    want it. Personally, I would just mount a light to the helmet and be done
    with it.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  6. jbuch said:
    jbuch said:

    I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light dispersion
    of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the Nite
    Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).

    Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the type
    commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The one with
    the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking it is hitting a
    single curved surface, more or less.)

    The Fresnel lens did spread the light beam on all headlights.

    EL-300 The result was five light "halos" rather than one beam. The
    light intensity was pretty low as a result of the spreading. It was more
    or less useless. If you spread out 400 claimed candlepower, it is
    pretty dim.

    EL-500 The result was a large light "halo" rather than a pencil. The
    effort to cover just 1/2 of the beam with the Fresnel lens produced a
    mixture of a "beam" and a "Halo", but it wasn't a very useful pattern
    for riding. Again, this lamp produces a claimed 1200 candlepower, and
    when spread out very much, it isn't a lot.

    Nite Hawk LED Emitter - The result was a larger diameter spot rather
    than the narrow pencil. There still wasn't much scattered light to see
    ahead of you while turning, or thinking about turning. The larger spot
    was a nicer medium speed ride than anything else, including any of the
    headlamps without the Fresnel lens.

    I would suspect that _I_ would be happy wtih outputs of nearly five
    times higher than the EL-500 or the Nite Hawk - and in a beamwhich has
    riding functinality.

    You may want to visit
    http://www.enhydralutris.de/Fahrrad/LEDWerfer0402/ and punch it into
    www.babelfish.com if you don't read German. (This site was mentioned
    in a another recent thread.) Their approach, working with Luxeon
    super-bright LEDs, is to modify a commercial generator headlight shell.

    Really, to light the road effectively, it's best to have optics
    designed for that purpose. I've tried something similar to what you're
    trying, with similar lack of success, although I started with a
    brighter light. I had lenses that spread the light far too much side
    to side, and I had lenses that made almost no difference, or gave too
    diffuse a beam. You need precision. I don't think you'll get it by
    accident.

    Quoted message said:

    I saw a 1928 Ford Model A today on my exercise ride and stopped to take
    a look.

    The headlamps had the classic bulb, reflector, and focusing front lens.
    The focus elements in the front lens were simple vertical cylinder
    sections, so as to spread the beam out laterally. No optical elements
    were in use to control the fine details of beam forming except in the
    lateral direction.

    More modern headlamps that I looked at had complex optical segmentation
    of small lenses that appeared to provide beam manipulation in both
    directions which may be why modern auto headlamps perform pretty well.

    Bicycle LED lights currently have none of this secondary beam forming
    optical design.

    I can't speak to the beam optics control of HID or tungsten-halide lamps.

    At anyy rate, LED headlights have a long way to go to be mature. Right
    now, they are immature in design and performance.

    I think Cateye's LEDs have paid some attention to optics. I think
    that's what their "Opticube" advertising term is supposed to mean.

    Interestingly, older Cateye halogen lamps (the cheap ones powered by
    flashlight batteries) had what seem to be parabolic reflectors and
    faceted lenses, some with front reflectors to reflect what would be
    "lost" light back toward the parabolic reflctor. The paraboloid throws
    out a straight parallel beam; the lens shapes it to fit the road,
    usually into a rectangle or trapezoid.

    Newer Cateye halogen lamps (the Micro whatever) dispense with the
    faceted lens. They seem to use a complex, computer-generated reflector
    to shape the beam directly. The idea seems to be to reduce losses in
    the front lens.

    To my eye, the beam shape is more precise with the old system; but the
    total light output may be more with the new system. Certainly, most
    new cars have gone to something similar. I know our Pontiac Vibe has
    no faceted lenses on the headlights, and the beam's upper cutoff and
    uniformity of spread are both outstanding.

    Cateye's LED lamps seem less precise to me, but not too bad. I rode
    next to a guy who had the CE-EL500. It's beam was somewhat amorphous,
    and not as useful to my eye as my halogen generator lamp, but it wasn't
    bad.

    - Frank Krygowski

  7. Phil said:
    jbuch said:
    jbuch said:

    I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light
    dispersion of the typical LED bike headlights.

    Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    scattered light to be something you can really ride with.

    I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the
    Nite Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).

    Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the type
    commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The one with
    the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking it is
    hitting a single curved surface, more or less.)

    The Fresnel lens did spread the light beam on all headlights.

    EL-300 The result was five light "halos" rather than one beam. The
    light intensity was pretty low as a result of the spreading. It was
    more or less useless. If you spread out 400 claimed candlepower, it
    is pretty dim.

    EL-500 The result was a large light "halo" rather than a pencil. The
    effort to cover just 1/2 of the beam with the Fresnel lens produced a
    mixture of a "beam" and a "Halo", but it wasn't a very useful pattern
    for riding. Again, this lamp produces a claimed 1200 candlepower, and
    when spread out very much, it isn't a lot.

    Nite Hawk LED Emitter - The result was a larger diameter spot rather
    than the narrow pencil. There still wasn't much scattered light to
    see ahead of you while turning, or thinking about turning. The larger
    spot was a nicer medium speed ride than anything else, including any
    of the headlamps without the Fresnel lens.

    I would suspect that _I_ would be happy wtih outputs of nearly five
    times higher than the EL-500 or the Nite Hawk - and in a beamwhich has
    riding functinality.

    I saw a 1928 Ford Model A today on my exercise ride and stopped to
    take a look.

    The headlamps had the classic bulb, reflector, and focusing front
    lens. The focus elements in the front lens were simple vertical
    cylinder sections, so as to spread the beam out laterally. No optical
    elements were in use to control the fine details of beam forming
    except in the lateral direction.

    More modern headlamps that I looked at had complex optical
    segmentation of small lenses that appeared to provide beam
    manipulation in both directions which may be why modern auto
    headlamps perform pretty well.
    Bicycle LED lights currently have none of this secondary beam forming
    optical design.

    I can't speak to the beam optics control of HID or tungsten-halide
    lamps.
    At anyy rate, LED headlights have a long way to go to be mature. Right
    now, they are immature in design and performance.

    The lenses are designed from the factory to focus very sharply. They give
    off comparatively little light to the sides, making reflectors kinda
    useless. A specific prism might be able to split the light just the way you
    want it. Personally, I would just mount a light to the helmet and be done
    with it.

    This is my twin Luxeon setup on my triathlon bike.
    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Lights2/Luxeon2.htm

    Marty

  8. Marty said:
    Phil said:
    jbuch said:

    jbuch wrote:

    > I'm starting to experiment with ways to alter the beam light
    > dispersion of the typical LED bike headlights.
    >
    > Most of them put out a "pencil beam" and not enough dispersed or
    > scattered light to be something you can really ride with.
    >
    > I have had this experience with Cateye EL300 and EL500 and with the
    > Nite Hawk LED Emitter (non-digital).
    >
    > Initial experiments are with a flat Fresnel plastic lens, of the
    > type commonly sold as a flat plastic pocket magnifying lens. (The
    > one with the rings of grooves that trick the light into thinking
    > it is hitting a single curved surface, more or less.)
    >

    The Fresnel lens did spread the light beam on all headlights.

    EL-300 The result was five light "halos" rather than one beam. The
    light intensity was pretty low as a result of the spreading. It was
    more or less useless. If you spread out 400 claimed candlepower, it
    is pretty dim.

    EL-500 The result was a large light "halo" rather than a pencil. The
    effort to cover just 1/2 of the beam with the Fresnel lens produced
    a mixture of a "beam" and a "Halo", but it wasn't a very useful
    pattern for riding. Again, this lamp produces a claimed 1200
    candlepower, and when spread out very much, it isn't a lot.

    Nite Hawk LED Emitter - The result was a larger diameter spot rather
    than the narrow pencil. There still wasn't much scattered light to
    see ahead of you while turning, or thinking about turning. The
    larger spot was a nicer medium speed ride than anything else,
    including any of the headlamps without the Fresnel lens.

    I would suspect that _I_ would be happy wtih outputs of nearly five
    times higher than the EL-500 or the Nite Hawk - and in a beamwhich
    has riding functinality.

    I saw a 1928 Ford Model A today on my exercise ride and stopped to
    take a look.

    The headlamps had the classic bulb, reflector, and focusing front
    lens. The focus elements in the front lens were simple vertical
    cylinder sections, so as to spread the beam out laterally. No
    optical elements were in use to control the fine details of beam
    forming except in the lateral direction.

    More modern headlamps that I looked at had complex optical
    segmentation of small lenses that appeared to provide beam
    manipulation in both directions which may be why modern auto
    headlamps perform pretty well.
    Bicycle LED lights currently have none of this secondary beam
    forming optical design.

    I can't speak to the beam optics control of HID or tungsten-halide
    lamps.
    At anyy rate, LED headlights have a long way to go to be mature.
    Right now, they are immature in design and performance.

    The lenses are designed from the factory to focus very sharply. They give
    off comparatively little light to the sides, making
    reflectors kinda useless. A specific prism might be able to split
    the light just the way you want it. Personally, I would just mount
    a light to the helmet and be done with it.

    This is my twin Luxeon setup on my triathlon bike.
    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Lights2/Luxeon2.htm

    Marty

    Nice! Reminds me of Johnny 5.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  9. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    This is my twin Luxeon setup on my triathlon bike.
    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Lights2/Luxeon2.htm

    Marty

    I did more or less the same thing. Two Cateye EL-500 mounted on a space
    saver bar, and a helmet mounted Princeton Tec EOS (1 watt LED) on my helmet,
    and it works fairly good. The EOS light spreads out, so you can see in the
    turns, it's a great light. 2 hours on 3 AAA, so it burns through them
    quick. But you put 3 Lithium AAA's in it, and you don't even feel any
    weight on your helmet.

  10. the cateye has a pencil beam?? tilt it up!
    gee marty's bike make me feel
    like a swineherd

  11. Quoted message said:

    the cateye has a pencil beam?? tilt it up!
    gee marty's bike make me feel
    like a swineherd

    Well I might get run over by a bus tomorrow so it's important to spend
    my life doing something I enjoy.

    Live to ride, ride to live.

    Marty

  12. Marty said:

    This is my twin Luxeon setup on my triathlon bike.
    http://www.hyperactive.oz.nf/Lights2/Luxeon2.htm


    Is that a custom setup, or purchased from Cateye?

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