Monkey Wrench

Ricardo said:

Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

Elaborate please. I didn't know HD made bicycles.

In article <[email hidden]>, Ken Pisichko <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ricardo said:

Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

Elaborate please. I didn't know HD made bicycles.

As bicycles they began...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/harley1.htm
http://www.jimlangley.net/brake/harley.html
http://www.jimlangley.net/brake/harley2.html

And to bicycles they have returned.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2005/harley_davidson.html

As for Ricardo's assertion that adjustable wrenches are some sort of
abomination, I say fie. They have their place, not least as a road tool
where they replace a broad range of other wrenches if you need. A really
big adjustable is an indispensable part of my toolbox, and comes in
handy in a large number of places, from turning freewheel removal tools
to adjusting the top nut on a threaded headset. It replaces what would
be several large, expensive, and rarely-used big wrenches (stuff in the
3/4"/19mm range, plus several sizes up and down from there).

Finally, adjustable wrenches speak Whitworth! Though ironically, I do
have access to Whitworth spanners.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

As for Ricardo's assertion that adjustable wrenches are some sort of
abomination, I say fie. They have their place, not least as a road tool
where they replace a broad range of other wrenches if you need. A really
big adjustable is an indispensable part of my toolbox, and comes in
handy in a large number of places, from turning freewheel removal tools
to adjusting the top nut on a threaded headset. It replaces what would
be several large, expensive, and rarely-used big wrenches (stuff in the
3/4"/19mm range, plus several sizes up and down from there).

Finally, adjustable wrenches speak Whitworth! Though ironically, I do
have access to Whitworth spanners.

I'll agree that on the road an adjustable wrench is better than none,
but what annoyed me is a pro mechanic wanna be asking about using them
in his shop *for any reason*. I didn't follow through on that thread
because it'd have led up to a war due to some guy who seems to just wish
to argue to no point so I declined a follow through.

It seems to me that it makes no sense in a shop or even in your home
garage unless you are somewhat desperate.

I had a set of Whitworth tools when I worked on Brit bikes. We also had
unified fine thread taps and British Standard too. Look, if you make
your living from your tools, you get good tools. There is a reason that
Snap On still exists even though you can buy cheaper tools.

When building a boat, I learned the tool lesson again. You can either
buy the good ones right off or buy the crummy ones again and again due
to broken tools and wasted material. In the end, you'll get the right
tools so why not get them from the start?

If I went to my LBS and some mech started in on my bike with an
adjustable wrench, I'd pull my bike from there right away.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:45:53 GMT, "Ricardo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I agree. There is no reason for a qualified mechanic of any kind, well maybe
a plumber, it is less messy than channel locks, to have an adjustable wrench
in their tool box. Good tools are cheap compared to what you are working
on. Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

Clearly you have no conception of what 'the right tool for the job'
actually means. Ajustable wrenches instead of channel locks? What the hell
do you think we're talking about, a friggin' pipe wrench?

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:45:53 GMT, "Ricardo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I agree. There is no reason for a qualified mechanic of any kind, well maybe
a plumber, it is less messy than channel locks, to have an adjustable wrench
in their tool box. Good tools are cheap compared to what you are working
on. Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

Clearly you have no conception of what 'the right tool for the job'
actually means. Ajustable wrenches instead of channel locks? What the hell
do you think we're talking about, a friggin' pipe wrench?

Actually, a couple of us were talking about pipe wrenches. I wouldn't
use one on an actual bike part, but they work well on a BB tool
(socket). Now, if I could only find a torque pipe wrench...

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:47:37 -0600, Paul Cassel <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'll agree that on the road an adjustable wrench is better than none,
but what annoyed me is a pro mechanic wanna be asking about using them
in his shop *for any reason*. I didn't follow through on that thread
because it'd have led up to a war due to some guy who seems to just wish
to argue to no point so I declined a follow through.

It seems to me that it makes no sense in a shop or even in your home
garage unless you are somewhat desperate.

Why *wouldn't* you use an adjustable wrench? Used properly, they do not
damage anything (although they require a much larger amount of clearance
than box/open end wrenches). Your attitude indicates an unfamiliarity with
the proper use of the tool, resulting in disasters, plus some amount of
prejudice.

Quoted message said:

If I went to my LBS and some mech started in on my bike with an
adjustable wrench, I'd pull my bike from there right away.

If some mech started in om my bike using pliers or a pipe wrench, I'd pull
it. Adjustable wrench, not.

Jasper

Jasper Janssen said:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 06:47:37 -0600, Paul Cassel <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'll agree that on the road an adjustable wrench is better than none,
but what annoyed me is a pro mechanic wanna be asking about using them
in his shop *for any reason*. I didn't follow through on that thread
because it'd have led up to a war due to some guy who seems to just wish
to argue to no point so I declined a follow through.

It seems to me that it makes no sense in a shop or even in your home
garage unless you are somewhat desperate.

Why *wouldn't* you use an adjustable wrench? Used properly, they do not
damage anything (although they require a much larger amount of clearance
than box/open end wrenches). Your attitude indicates an unfamiliarity with
the proper use of the tool, resulting in disasters, plus some amount of
prejudice.

Quoted message said:

If I went to my LBS and some mech started in on my bike with an
adjustable wrench, I'd pull my bike from there right away.

If some mech started in om my bike using pliers or a pipe wrench, I'd pull
it. Adjustable wrench, not.

Another country heard from:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/adjustable.html
--
Live simply so that others may simply live

Neil Brooks said:

Another country heard from:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/adjustable.html

Years ago a mechanic told me that crescent wrenches should be turned so
that the adjustable jaw is leading, which is the opposite of how it's
shown in the picture on Sheldon's page. Supposedly this makes the
wrench less likely to slip. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

Looking at the picture, it seems that turning with the moveable jaw
leading would put the force farther out along the jaw than turning the
other way. Maybe having the force on a longer lever arm tends to
"[censored]" the jaw more, preventing it from moving. Or maybe the tip was
just an old wives' tale.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

"Ray Heindl" wrote: (clip) Years ago a mechanic told me that crescent
wrenches should be turned so that the adjustable jaw is leading, which is
the opposite of how it's shown in the picture on Sheldon's page.
Supposedly this makes the wrench less likely to slip. Has anyone else ever
heard of this? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sheldon discusses this at some length in his writeup, and reaches the
conclusion that he can't reach a conclusion. My opinion is that the need to
flop the wench over to deal with limited swing is the main governing factor.
If there is a choice, I always place the wrench so that the pressure on the
movable jaw is farthest from the tip--this lessens the leverage on the eaker
jaw. Finally, if you are using the wrench under circumstances where this
could make a difference, that's the time when it might be better to look for
a solid wrench.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Peter Cole said:

Jasper Janssen said:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 02:45:53 GMT, "Ricardo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I agree. There is no reason for a qualified mechanic of any kind, well maybe
a plumber, it is less messy than channel locks, to have an adjustable wrench
in their tool box. Good tools are cheap compared to what you are working
on. Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

Clearly you have no conception of what 'the right tool for the job'
actually means. Ajustable wrenches instead of channel locks? What the hell
do you think we're talking about, a friggin' pipe wrench?

Actually, a couple of us were talking about pipe wrenches. I wouldn't
use one on an actual bike part, but they work well on a BB tool
(socket). Now, if I could only find a torque pipe wrench...

I have used a pipe wrench on a bike part. I did not have a
chain whip available, so i used a 24 inch stilson wrench
to hold the large cog wheel on the cassette while removing
the lock ring.

--
Michael Press

Per Neil Brooks:

Quoted message said:

Another country heard from:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/adjustable.html

Only qualification I'd offer to Sheldon's text is that I had a problem with a
Craftsman tap-and-die set last year and the local Sears weaseled on a
technicality.

The technicality being that they don't warranty the container, whose plastic
basically disintegrated.... but if any reasonable person who sees a tap-and-die
set/container would agree that the organizer/box is an integral part of the
tap-and-die set.

After that, if warranty were important to me, I'd feel more comfortable with the
other brand Sheldon mentioned: Snap-On.
--
PeteCresswell

Jasper Janssen said:

Why *wouldn't* you use an adjustable wrench? Used properly, they do not
damage anything (although they require a much larger amount of clearance
than box/open end wrenches). Your attitude indicates an unfamiliarity with
the proper use of the tool, resulting in disasters, plus some amount of
prejudice.

Prejudice of what for gosh sakes? Look, I worked as a pro wrench (not
bicycles where I know little) and can tell you these things munge
fasteners. The mark of a well done job is that it is returned 100% as it
came in with no appreciable wear or tear. I can often tell fasteners
worked on by cheap tools or even good adjustable wrenches.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If some mech started in om my bike using pliers or a pipe wrench, I'd pull
it. Adjustable wrench, not.

Your bike your choice. My bike my...

Ray Heindl said:

Neil Brooks said:

Another country heard from:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/adjustable.html

Years ago a mechanic told me that crescent wrenches should be turned so
that the adjustable jaw is leading, which is the opposite of how it's
shown in the picture on Sheldon's page. Supposedly this makes the
wrench less likely to slip. Has anyone else ever heard of this?

Yes, this way the jaw tightens as you use it. It's better than the other
way, but still, I'd avoid their use.

OK, I accept Sheldon as an authority, so really feel best to drop out of
this one now.

Quoted message said:

Looking at the picture, it seems that turning with the moveable jaw
leading would put the force farther out along the jaw than turning the
other way. Maybe having the force on a longer lever arm tends to
"[censored]" the jaw more, preventing it from moving. Or maybe the tip was
just an old wives' tale.

Ricardo said:

I agree. There is no reason for a qualified mechanic of any kind, well maybe
a plumber, it is less messy than channel locks, to have an adjustable wrench
in their tool box. Good tools are cheap compared to what you are working
on. Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

A 'monkey wrench', altho adjustable is not the same as an 'adjustable
wrench'.

All monkey wrenches are adjustable but all adjustable wrenches aren't
'monkey wrenches.

Also google 'pipe wrenches'-which are monkey wrenches, and adjustable
but not all pipe wrenches are 'adjustable wrenches' but all are
adjustable....

why I wander around this NG in the AM..cuz it's entertaining!!!

Paul Cassel said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Why *wouldn't* you use an adjustable wrench? Used properly, they do not
damage anything (although they require a much larger amount of clearance
than box/open end wrenches). Your attitude indicates an unfamiliarity
with
the proper use of the tool, resulting in disasters, plus some amount of
prejudice.

Prejudice of what for gosh sakes? Look, I worked as a pro wrench (not
bicycles where I know little) and can tell you these things munge
fasteners. The mark of a well done job is that it is returned 100% as it
came in with no appreciable wear or tear. I can often tell fasteners
worked on by cheap tools or even good adjustable wrenches.

What you say is true -- having the right tool for the job makes a big
difference, but even pipe wrenches have their place. Most mechanics keep
small pipe wrenches to use when wrench flats have been rounded by other
tools.

I can't see the harm in using a (big) pipe wrench on a BB tool (socket).
As another poster said, worst case is you chew up the BB tool -- not the
BB -- but even that's replaceable (often the whole point of the
exercise). I like a big pipe wrench on the BB tool for removal since it
has a long handle, and one that's shaped to allow easy extension with a
piece of pipe for extra torque. It hasn't damaged my Park BB tool yet.

quote='Qui si parla Campagnolo'Ricardo said:

I agree. There is no reason for a qualified mechanic of any kind, well maybe
a plumber, it is less messy than channel locks, to have an adjustable wrench
in their tool box. Good tools are cheap compared to what you are working
on. Of course all of these rules change when you are talking about Harleys.
JMO. Ricardo

A 'monkey wrench', altho adjustable is not the same as an 'adjustable
wrench'.

All monkey wrenches are adjustable but all adjustable wrenches aren't
'monkey wrenches.

Also google 'pipe wrenches'-which are monkey wrenches, and adjustable
but not all pipe wrenches are 'adjustable wrenches' but all are
adjustable....

why I wander around this NG in the AM..cuz it's entertaining!!![/QUOTE]

I've seen non-adjustable monkey wrenches. I've also seen monkey wrenches so rusty as to preclude adjustment.

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:11:35 -0600, Paul Cassel <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Why *wouldn't* you use an adjustable wrench? Used properly, they do not
damage anything (although they require a much larger amount of clearance
than box/open end wrenches). Your attitude indicates an unfamiliarity with
the proper use of the tool, resulting in disasters, plus some amount of
prejudice.

Prejudice of what for gosh sakes? Look, I worked as a pro wrench (not
bicycles where I know little) and can tell you these things munge
fasteners.

They really don't, when used *properly*. That means retightening every
single time you place it over the nut, which makes it inconvenient,
especially in tight spaces.

Quoted message said:

The mark of a well done job is that it is returned 100% as it
came in with no appreciable wear or tear. I can often tell fasteners
worked on by cheap tools or even good adjustable wrenches.

No, what you can tell is fasteners worked on by people not using their
tools properly.

Jasper

Leo Lichtman said:

"Ray Heindl" wrote: (clip) Years ago a mechanic told me that
crescent wrenches should be turned so that the adjustable jaw is
leading, which is the opposite of how it's shown in the picture
on Sheldon's page. Supposedly this makes the wrench less likely
to slip. Has anyone else ever heard of this? (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Sheldon discusses this at some length in his writeup, and reaches
the conclusion that he can't reach a conclusion. My opinion is
that the need to flop the wench over to deal with limited swing is
the main governing factor. If there is a choice, I always place
the wrench so that the pressure on the movable jaw is farthest
from the tip--this lessens the leverage on the eaker jaw.
Finally, if you are using the wrench under circumstances where
this could make a difference, that's the time when it might be
better to look for a solid wrench.

I must have read Sheldon's article too quickly, as I missed that part
the first time. Of course, if it comes to a choice between turning the
wrench the "right" way (whichever way that is) and being able to get it
on the nut, there's no question.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)

Paul Cassel said:

Ray Heindl wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Years ago a mechanic told me that crescent wrenches should be
turned so that the adjustable jaw is leading, which is the
opposite of how it's shown in the picture on Sheldon's page.
Supposedly this makes the wrench less likely to slip. Has anyone
else ever heard of this?

Quoted message said:

Yes, this way the jaw tightens as you use it. It's better than the
other way, but still, I'd avoid their use.

That's what I was told, but I don't see how it could actually tighten,
since the force is trying to push the jaws apart no matter which way
you turn it. Maybe there's a smaller tendency to loosen in one
direction than in the other, which got magnified to "tightening" in the
retelling.

--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply)