More Chain Stuff

For those just reading, relates to earlier thread on "Quick Link or Master Link." Just to let you
all know I am not a "chain snob" (or aka Sienfeld, a "chain Nazi"). Why I currently am using Shimano
goes back 3 years to when I was riding a Haluzak Horizon on the MS150 between Houston and Austin.
Going through the park, up some fair size hills, I had a Sachs chain break on me on the up side of a
hill. Not a lot of fun, especially since I was pretty much a novice at riding recumbents at that
time. Turned out the side plate on one link failed. I used my trusty all purpose repair tool and
made the repair and finished the ride. But, as soon as I got home I started searching for a "better"
replacement, and here is how I got to Shimano. Still pretty green in the recumbent world and unaware
of this newsgroup or other sources of info, I stumbled on to Hostel Shoppe. With nothing to go on,
but "price is quality"(yea, I know somewhat dumb), I purchased a Shimano chain.(all 11 feet of it).
I rode with that chain on my Horizon until I sold it and bought a Vision Sabre. I probably only put
2000 miles on the Horizon Shimano chain and it still measured out good when I sold the bike, so that
gave me some info as to the reliability of the Shimano chain.The original Shimano chain on my Sabre
was replaced after 8500 miles. It went up the hills on the MS150 one year and the hills in Oklahoma
on the OKfreewheel for two rides. No failures, so I took this as pretty good info and purchased a
Shimano replacement from Hostel Shoppe.

Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if we can hear some more
experiences on reliability of these chains, for example KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on
this but never buy, by the way). Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains together,
how do you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have with stiffness
at the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using their proprietary
pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.

Okay, this was long and you had to refill your coffee cups to get through it, but.....thanks for
sticking around and if you can give us some info, it would be appreciated.

Warren

 

In article <%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if we can hear some more
> experiences on reliability of these chains, for example KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on
> this but never buy, by the way). Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains
> together, how do you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have
> with stiffness at the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using
> their proprietary pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.

I've gone both with a full 11 ft chain and make yer own from the std length. I got a Stratus with an
OEM KMC chain and could not wait to replace it with 'something better'. After 3000 miles, I bought a
Shimano 'top of the line' and started to put it on. Someone from this NG suggested that a recumbent
chain should last more than 3000 mi. I checked my chain and discovered that it still had a useful
life left and put it back on. At 7900 miles later, I finally replaced it with that 'top of the line'
Shimano and the Shimano was still on the bike when I sold it at 9900 miles. My Lightning came with a
Shimano HG73? chain that lasted only about 1500 miles. I bought three SRAM PC-99s and put them
together with the included Powerlinks. At 3800 miles, I have a new PC-99 on order and somewhat
overdue for replacement. Commuting seems to take a toll on chain. So based upon this history, maybe
I should try to find more KMC chains. My Giro is equipped with Shimano as OEM. I am looking at 1600
miles on that chain. I'm not sure what I will replace it with when the time comes. I know it will be
something with a replacable link.
--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

 

Cletus, You mentioned ,I think it was you, in another chain post that KMC chains have a master
link.Where do you get them? I have a KMC on the used Stratus I just bought and since it is in good
shape don't want to buy a new chain yet. Ben fox

"Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if
we
> > can hear some more experiences on reliability of these chains, for
example
> > KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on this but never buy, by the
way).
> > Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains together, how
do
> > you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have with stiffness at
> > the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using their
> > proprietary pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.
>
> I've gone both with a full 11 ft chain and make yer own from the std length. I got a Stratus with
> an OEM KMC chain and could not wait to replace it with 'something better'. After 3000 miles, I
> bought a Shimano 'top of the line' and started to put it on. Someone from this NG suggested that a
> recumbent chain should last more than 3000 mi. I checked my chain and discovered that it still had
> a useful life left and put it back on. At 7900 miles later, I finally replaced it with that 'top
> of the line' Shimano and the Shimano was still on the bike when I sold it at 9900 miles. My
> Lightning came with a Shimano HG73? chain that lasted only about 1500 miles. I bought three SRAM
> PC-99s and put them together with the included Powerlinks. At 3800 miles, I have a new PC-99 on
> order and somewhat overdue for replacement. Commuting seems to take a toll on chain. So based upon
> this history, maybe I should try to find more KMC chains. My Giro is equipped with Shimano as OEM.
> I am looking at 1600 miles on that chain. I'm not sure what I will replace it with when the time
> comes. I know it will be something with a replacable link.
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> You mentioned ,I think it was you, in another chain post that KMC chains have a master link.Where
> do you get them? I have a KMC on the used Stratus I just bought and since it is in good shape
> don't want to buy a new chain yet. Ben fox

Check with your LBS. If they stock them, they'll have them on a bubble plastic card (12 or so to a
card) If not, the LBS should be able to order through normal channels. I don't be able to know if
they can order just one, but they should sell them by the 'each' off the card.

--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

 

Thanks Cletus. Ben fox "Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > You mentioned ,I think it was you, in another chain post that KMC chains have a master
> > link.Where do you get them? I have a KMC on the used
Stratus I
> > just bought and since it is in good shape don't want to buy a new chain
yet.
> > Ben fox
>
> Check with your LBS. If they stock them, they'll have them on a bubble plastic card (12 or so to a
> card) If not, the LBS should be able to order through normal channels. I don't be able to know if
> they can order just one, but they should sell them by the 'each' off the card.
>
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

I've used Sedis / Sachs / SRAM for more than twenty years and never had a problem with them. Mostly
joined with the Power Link these days, though the one currently installed on the Speedmachine is
held together in the time-honoured manner.

Dave Larrington - http://legslarry.crosswinds.net/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

Cletus:

You could always try a Rholoff chain, if you have a thing for jewelry.

--
--Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

"Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if
we
> > can hear some more experiences on reliability of these chains, for
example
> > KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on this but never buy, by the
way).
> > Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains together, how
do
> > you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have with stiffness at
> > the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using their
> > proprietary pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.
>
> I've gone both with a full 11 ft chain and make yer own from the std length. I got a Stratus with
> an OEM KMC chain and could not wait to replace it with 'something better'. After 3000 miles, I
> bought a Shimano 'top of the line' and started to put it on. Someone from this NG suggested that a
> recumbent chain should last more than 3000 mi. I checked my chain and discovered that it still had
> a useful life left and put it back on. At 7900 miles later, I finally replaced it with that 'top
> of the line' Shimano and the Shimano was still on the bike when I sold it at 9900 miles. My
> Lightning came with a Shimano HG73? chain that lasted only about 1500 miles. I bought three SRAM
> PC-99s and put them together with the included Powerlinks. At 3800 miles, I have a new PC-99 on
> order and somewhat overdue for replacement. Commuting seems to take a toll on chain. So based upon
> this history, maybe I should try to find more KMC chains. My Giro is equipped with Shimano as OEM.
> I am looking at 1600 miles on that chain. I'm not sure what I will replace it with when the time
> comes. I know it will be something with a replacable link.
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

Cletus:

You could always try a Rholoff chain, if you have a thing for jewelry.

--
--Scott [email protected] Cut the "tail" to send email.

"Cletus Lee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <%fUZ9.1[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if
we
> > can hear some more experiences on reliability of these chains, for
example
> > KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on this but never buy, by the
way).
> > Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains together, how
do
> > you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have with stiffness at
> > the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using their
> > proprietary pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.
>
> I've gone both with a full 11 ft chain and make yer own from the std length. I got a Stratus with
> an OEM KMC chain and could not wait to replace it with 'something better'. After 3000 miles, I
> bought a Shimano 'top of the line' and started to put it on. Someone from this NG suggested that a
> recumbent chain should last more than 3000 mi. I checked my chain and discovered that it still had
> a useful life left and put it back on. At 7900 miles later, I finally replaced it with that 'top
> of the line' Shimano and the Shimano was still on the bike when I sold it at 9900 miles. My
> Lightning came with a Shimano HG73? chain that lasted only about 1500 miles. I bought three SRAM
> PC-99s and put them together with the included Powerlinks. At 3800 miles, I have a new PC-99 on
> order and somewhat overdue for replacement. Commuting seems to take a toll on chain. So based upon
> this history, maybe I should try to find more KMC chains. My Giro is equipped with Shimano as OEM.
> I am looking at 1600 miles on that chain. I'm not sure what I will replace it with when the time
> comes. I know it will be something with a replacable link.
> --
>
> Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
> - Bellaire, TX USA -

 

>Now I am wondering , after the good responses on the earlier thread, if we can hear some more
>experiences on reliability of these chains, for example KMC, Sram, Shimano, Sachs( I will read on
>this but never buy, by the way). Also, those of you, like Cletus, that put your own chains
>together, how do you do it? Do you use pins or master links? What kind of problems do you have with
>stiffness at the joined link? I have considered putting my own Shimano chains together using their
>proprietary pins, but worried about dealing with three "joined" link areas.

My Vision came with a KMC, which seemed OK, but I wanted a "quick link" capability for chain
cleaning, so I went with Sram PC48 chain after the first thousand miles. I just used all three power
links to hold the thing together, and never had a problem. Cleaning was a snap, and the shifting was
a bit faster with the Sram. I just replaced it with a new set of three Sram PC58s (to get the silver
like finish) but the old chain was still in great shape, with less than 0.5% stretch (according to
my Park chain tester) after 6000 miles.

Works for me.

Steve Christensen

 

Be aware that unless you have a Rohloff Revolver [1], it is impossible to put a Shimano 9-speed
chain back together unless one has some of the special Shimano pins. (I.e., if your chain breaks on
a ride, and one or the other is not available, you are SOL). I will use SRAM (nee Sachs, nee Sedis)
replacement chains with "Powerlinks" for this reason.

[1] < http://www.rohloffusa.com/revolver.htm >

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

Freewheeling wrote:
>
> Cletus:
>
> You could always try a Rholoff chain, if you have a thing for jewelry.

The Rohloff (note spelling) S-L-T 99 chain is available with gold plating.

< http://www.rohloffusa.com/slt99.htm >

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

Tom: A chain tool will put a shimano standard 9 speed pin into a Shimano 9 speed chain just fine.
Possibly it may not be as strong but I have run them on rides without problem. Why do you find it
"immpossible"?

SRAM chains likewise are rebuildable with just using standard pins and without the special
powerlink. Ever lose half a powerlink while performing maintainance just before a ride? Dave

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message

> Be aware that unless you have a Rohloff Revolver [1], it is impossible to put a Shimano 9-speed
> chain back together unless one has some of the special Shimano pins. (I.e., if your chain breaks
> on a ride, and one or the other is not available, you are SOL). I will use SRAM (nee Sachs, nee
> Sedis) replacement chains with "Powerlinks" for this reason.
>
> [1] < http://www.rohloffusa.com/revolver.htm >
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Tom: A chain tool will put a shimano standard 9 speed pin into a Shimano 9 speed chain just fine.
> Possibly it may not be as strong but I have run them on rides without problem. Why do you find it
> "immpossible"?
>
> SRAM chains likewise are rebuildable with just using standard pins and without the special
> powerlink. Ever lose half a powerlink while performing maintainance just before a ride? Dave

I think what tom is trying to say is that once you completely remove a pin from a Shimano 9-spd
chain, it _is_ impossible to re-insert it with a std chain tool.

Because of the tolerances required for a narrower 9-spd chain, I would not wish to risk my luck
with a reused pin. I will assemble and reassemble my chains with a quick link. I do not worry
about losing one or more parts of of the Quick link. I carry spares in my tool kit along with my
chain tool. The chain tool is now relegated to emergency uses to take a chain apart, not put a
chain back together.
--

Cletus D. Lee Bacchetta Giro Lightning Voyager http://www.clee.org
- Bellaire, TX USA -

 

dave is here wrote:
>
> Tom: A chain tool will put a shimano standard 9 speed pin into a Shimano 9 speed chain just fine.
> Possibly it may not be as strong but I have run them on rides without problem. Why do you find it
> "immpossible"?
>
> SRAM chains likewise are rebuildable with just using standard pins and without the special
> powerlink. Ever lose half a powerlink while performing maintainance just before a ride?

Dave,

I wish you had been on the TOSOC ride with us last fall. An upright friend had one of the sideplates
on a Shimano 9-Speed chain come partially detached so the chain would not stay on the rear cogs.
Using a standard portable chain tool, we (including a former bike mechanic) removed the offending
link and tried to reattach the two ends of the chain. We were unable to join the chain back together
properly reusing the ejected pin (the side plate on the side opposite pin insertion would not be
snug). After multiple attempts we gave up and purchased a SRAM chain from a SAG driver. You must
know something we didn't.

FWIW, I find it easy to only partially push a pin out on a Shimano
7/8-speed chain and reassemble it - I have several thousand miles on such chains.

I can not answer your second question, since I am unfamiliar with the concept of "performing
maintenance just before a ride".

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

Cletus Lee wrote:
>
> I think what tom is trying to say is that once you completely remove a pin from a Shimano 9-spd
> chain, it _is_ impossible to re-insert it with a std chain tool.
>
> Because of the tolerances required for a narrower 9-spd chain, I would not wish to risk my luck
> with a reused pin. I will assemble and reassemble my chains with a quick link. I do not worry
> about losing one or more parts of of the Quick link. I carry spares in my tool kit along with my
> chain tool. The chain tool is now relegated to emergency uses to take a chain apart, not put a
> chain back together.

Cletus,

Your first statement is correct. As for the second, I generally agree about reusing pins in a
9-speed Shimano chain, but in the situation I was referring to, we were attempting to reassemble a
chain for the remaining 40 miles of an invitational ride, with a proper repair to be made after the
ride. Unfortunately, we had only 8-speed Powerlinks available at the time - we would have used a
9-speed Powerlink if it had been available.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> dave is here wrote:
>>
>> Tom: A chain tool will put a shimano standard 9 speed pin into a Shimano 9

When I first put my trike together, I bought three Shimano 9 spd chains. Using my wonderful Park
chain tool(the kind that looks kind of like a big pair of pliers)I put the chains together without a
quick-link or whatever. That's the way it used to be back when there were only five or six speed
cogs and no such thing as Power-links. Anyway, about a month later, while cleaning the shop, I found
the packaging and directions along with dire warnings about re-using the pins, yada yada. The trike
had several hundred miles on by then, and probably about 2000 by now. I suspect that the twisting
action of most compact chain tools(hate the bloody things)pushes the pins thru at inapropriate
enough angles that it may indeed cause damage to the side plates. This would be true of nearly any
brand of chain. The special replacement pins are merely chamfered a bit more than the regular pins,
and of course the snap-off bit at the other end.

Nine speed chains and pins are narrower than ever, and a slight error in placement results in
a greater angle of deflection. Shimano hoopla if you ask me. But that's just my opinion, I
could be wrong.

rorschandt

 

Sure Tom,

I wish I was on that ride, I wish I was almost any ride. I am not as good with the acronym TOSOC yet
so I am hoping that you will fill me on that one.

My only hint to the problem would be to not push the pin out completely. If it breaks at a pin you
would lose that pin anyway. If you can't locate the pin then the only solution would be to shorten
the chain by an inch and go with it. Except for running Big-Big you would do fine.

Technology, aint it wonderful. Reminds me of my commute to the office on Wednesday. Derailleurs
froze and was limited to a single speed on the mtn bike.

Yesterday I went riding on the bikeE on my Checkrow loop and got to ride on about a mile of snow and
ice. I was suprised at how well it
did.

Tomorrow I hope the weather is better. Want to do another century on my fixed gear bike. Have a
great weekend. I see that you have been posting more recently. Hope your workload is better. Dave

Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> dave is here wrote:
> >
> > Tom: A chain tool will put a shimano standard 9 speed pin into a Shimano 9 speed chain just
> > fine. Possibly it may not be as strong but I have run them on rides without problem. Why do you
> > find it "immpossible"?
> >
> > SRAM chains likewise are rebuildable with just using standard pins and without the special
> > powerlink. Ever lose half a powerlink while performing maintainance just before a ride?
>
> Dave,
>
> I wish you had been on the TOSOC ride with us last fall. An upright friend had one of the
> sideplates on a Shimano 9-Speed chain come partially detached so the chain would not stay on the
> rear cogs. Using a standard portable chain tool, we (including a former bike mechanic) removed the
> offending link and tried to reattach the two ends of the chain. We were unable to join the chain
> back together properly reusing the ejected pin (the side plate on the side opposite pin insertion
> would not be snug). After multiple attempts we gave up and purchased a SRAM chain from a SAG
> driver. You must know something we didn't.
>
> FWIW, I find it easy to only partially push a pin out on a Shimano
> 7/8-speed chain and reassemble it - I have several thousand miles on such chains.
>
> I can not answer your second question, since I am unfamiliar with the concept of "performing
> maintenance just before a ride".
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

 

dave is here wrote:
>
> Sure Tom,
>
> I wish I was on that ride, I wish I was almost any ride. I am not as good with the acronym TOSOC
> yet so I am hoping that you will fill me on that one.
>
> My only hint to the problem would be to not push the pin out completely. If it breaks at a pin you
> would lose that pin anyway. If you can't locate the pin then the only solution would be to shorten
> the chain by an inch and go with it. Except for running Big-Big you would do fine.
>
> Technology, aint it wonderful. Reminds me of my commute to the office on Wednesday. Derailleurs
> froze and was limited to a single speed on the mtn bike.
>
> Yesterday I went riding on the bikeE on my Checkrow loop and got to ride on about a mile of snow
> and ice. I was suprised at how well it
> did.
>
> Tomorrow I hope the weather is better. Want to do another century on my fixed gear bike. Have a
> great weekend. I see that you have been posting more recently. Hope your workload is better.

Dave,

TOSOC is Tour Of Scenic Ogle County and is put on by the Blackhawk Bicycle and Ski Club (Rockford
based). Last year it started in Stillman Valley and went to among other places Oregon. There is a
hill going into town where you would be able to put the 63/11 gear on your Wishbone to good use (I
spun over 140 rpm in the 120-inch gear on my Sunset). The ride also provides a nice view of the
Byron 1 and 2 cooling towers.

We were trying to do to the chain exactly what you described - I have done it with 7/8 speed Shimano
IG chains with no problem, but even though we did not push the pin out all the way, the chain would
not go back together properly. Maybe it is only some models of Shimano 9-speed chain that have this
problem (I do not recall the particular model - it is what came stock on a 2001 Fuji Roubaix). The
chain was falling apart by itself, so it may well have been improperly assembled and/or defective.

Does McDonough County salt all the roads, or just the State and Federal routes? The Quad Cities
is typical of much of Illinois, where the depth of salt laid down is almost as great as the
depth of snow.

Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
Dragonflyer

 

Tom TOSOC sounds like an interesting ride, I'll try and fit it in the schedule.

About the salt paving here, The county tends to use cinders or ash of sometype. They must have a
cheap source of them.

We only get snow plows generally on the township roads. Luckily most of the snow melted in
yesterdays rain. This week I was relegated to riding my mtn bike on the snow pack but did get the
bikeE out on some snow on Thursday. Dave Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<3E3B25EB[email protected]>...
> dave is here wrote:
> >
> > Sure Tom,
> >
> > I wish I was on that ride, I wish I was almost any ride. I am not as good with the acronym TOSOC
> > yet so I am hoping that you will fill me on that one.
> >
> > My only hint to the problem would be to not push the pin out completely. If it breaks at a pin
> > you would lose that pin anyway. If you can't locate the pin then the only solution would be to
> > shorten the chain by an inch and go with it. Except for running Big-Big you would do fine.
> >
> > Technology, aint it wonderful. Reminds me of my commute to the office on Wednesday. Derailleurs
> > froze and was limited to a single speed on the mtn bike.
> >
> > Yesterday I went riding on the bikeE on my Checkrow loop and got to ride on about a mile of snow
> > and ice. I was suprised at how well it
> > did.
> >
> > Tomorrow I hope the weather is better. Want to do another century on my fixed gear bike. Have a
> > great weekend. I see that you have been posting more recently. Hope your workload is better.
>
> Dave,
>
> TOSOC is Tour Of Scenic Ogle County and is put on by the Blackhawk Bicycle and Ski Club (Rockford
> based). Last year it started in Stillman Valley and went to among other places Oregon. There is a
> hill going into town where you would be able to put the 63/11 gear on your Wishbone to good use (I
> spun over 140 rpm in the 120-inch gear on my Sunset). The ride also provides a nice view of the
> Byron 1 and 2 cooling towers.
>
> We were trying to do to the chain exactly what you described - I have done it with 7/8 speed
> Shimano IG chains with no problem, but even though we did not push the pin out all the way, the
> chain would not go back together properly. Maybe it is only some models of Shimano 9-speed chain
> that have this problem (I do not recall the particular model - it is what came stock on a 2001
> Fuji Roubaix). The chain was falling apart by itself, so it may well have been improperly
> assembled and/or defective.
>
> Does McDonough County salt all the roads, or just the State and Federal routes? The Quad Cities
> is typical of much of Illinois, where the depth of salt laid down is almost as great as the depth
> of snow.
>
> Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side) RANS "Wavewind" and Rocket, Earth Cycles Sunset and
> Dragonflyer

 

rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>... <snip>
> Nine speed chains and pins are narrower than ever, and a slight error in placement results in a
> greater angle of deflection. Shimano hoopla if you ask me. But that's just my opinion, I could
> be wrong.
>
> rorschandt

IMHO, the special pins are necessary because the original pins are peened over the sideplates on
assembly. When these pins are pushed out, the sideplate's holes are enlarged slightly. The
replacement pins are larger in diameter by that same amount. Pushing the original pin back in means
the hole is now too large for the pin, leaving the area open to failure.

Jeff