More cycling news

Tim Hall said:

The bloke who knocked Olympian Emma Davies-Jones off her bike has been
found guilty of driving without due care, failing to stop and failing
to report an accident.

Sentence will be passed next week.

Story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6196636.stm

Tim

Nice to hear he's been nicked, but the trouble is that the penalties
for "driving without due care, failing to stop and failing to report an
accident" are risible.
Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for GBH,
assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
duffing her up.

John Snuggs said:

Tim Hall said:

The bloke who knocked Olympian Emma Davies-Jones off her bike has been
found guilty of driving without due care, failing to stop and failing
to report an accident.

Sentence will be passed next week.

Story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6196636.stm

Nice to hear he's been nicked, but the trouble is that the penalties
for "driving without due care, failing to stop and failing to report an
accident" are risible.
Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for GBH,
assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
duffing her up.

If the act was deemed to be deliberate then it would be treated in a
similar way to GBH. If you doubt that look at these links:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/5298346.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/5239650.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4263932.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/5188096.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/5010052.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/4645848.stm

OTOH, killings, even with guns, are treated leniently if it was not
deliberate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/5221216.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5242564.stm

Do you want motorists to be assumed to be guilty of intent, simply
because they are motorists?

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

Do you want motorists to be assumed to be guilty of intent, simply
because they are motorists?

Prima facie case. Onus shifts the defence 🙂
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Matt B said:

Do you want motorists to be assumed to be guilty of intent,
simply because they are motorists?

No, simply because a quorum of motorists swing a ton of steel around
without due respect for other peoples' safety.

Friends & I have guns. They could be very dangerous. We are very very
careful with them & would be rapidly damned by the gun owning community
if we were careless with them.

How should people react if I carried my gun with no intent of harm, but
carried it loaded on autopilot while I talked on my cellphone? Or if I
used it to imply "you'll come off worse" to clear my path?

Quoted message said:

Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for GBH,
assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
duffing her up.

I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering the
bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under oath.

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for GBH,
assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
duffing her up.

I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering the
bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under oath.

And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path, so he was
either totally distracted to an extent that he lost all coordination or
he went out of his way to run her down.

David.

Sirius631 said:

Mark Thompson said:

Quoted message said:

Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for GBH,
assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
duffing her up.

I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering the
bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under oath.

And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,

Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked off
her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

Quoted message said:

so he was
either totally distracted to an extent that he lost all coordination or
he went out of his way to run her down.

Presumably the police would have charged him with assault, or worse, if
there was any evidence at all of the latter.

--
Matt B

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sirius631 said:

Mark Thompson said:

> Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for

GBH,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
> duffing her up.
I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering the
bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under

oath.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,

Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked off
her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

You just answered your own question. Anyway, there was plenty of coverage of
that fact when the incident happened.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so he was
either totally distracted to an extent that he lost all coordination or
he went out of his way to run her down.

Presumably the police would have charged him with assault, or worse, if
there was any evidence at all of the latter.

It has taken them some time to catch this guy. It becomes more difficult to
prove anything. It would be very difficult to find any evidence of
intoxication after all this time.

--
David Lloyd,
The pub is responsible for my opinions.

David Lloyd said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sirius631 said:

Mark Thompson wrote:
>> Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for

GBH,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
>> duffing her up.
> I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering the
> bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under

oath.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,

Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked off
her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

You just answered your own question. Anyway, there was plenty of coverage of
that fact when the incident happened.

I didn't. The PP may have had a source which suggested it /was/ a cycle
path, or he may have mistakenly confused 'cycle lane' for 'cycle path'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so he was
either totally distracted to an extent that he lost all coordination or
he went out of his way to run her down.

Presumably the police would have charged him with assault, or worse, if
there was any evidence at all of the latter.

It has taken them some time to catch this guy. It becomes more difficult to
prove anything. It would be very difficult to find any evidence of
intoxication after all this time.

The PP offered an option that "he went out of his way to run her down".
If there was any evidence, or suggestion of that at the beginning I
believe it would have been investigated.

--
Matt B

David Lloyd said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sirius631 said:

And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,

Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked off
her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

You just answered your own question. Anyway, there was plenty of coverage of
that fact when the incident happened.

A cycle lane is not the same thing as a cycle path. Dangerous places,
cycle lanes.

--
Dave...

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David Lloyd said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sirius631 wrote:
> Mark Thompson wrote:
>>> Expect a slap on the wrist, rather than the few years he'd get for

GBH,

Quoted message said:

>>> assault or attempted murder if he'd caused her the same damage by
>>> duffing her up.
>> I read that the judge had ruled out prison. Shocking, considering

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> bloke a) left someone lying on the road and b) lied about it under

oath.

Quoted message said:

> And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,
Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked

off

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

You just answered your own question. Anyway, there was plenty of

coverage of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that fact when the incident happened.

I didn't. The PP may have had a source which suggested it /was/ a cycle
path, or he may have mistakenly confused 'cycle lane' for 'cycle path'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> so he was
> either totally distracted to an extent that he lost all coordination

or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> he went out of his way to run her down.
Presumably the police would have charged him with assault, or worse, if
there was any evidence at all of the latter.

It has taken them some time to catch this guy. It becomes more difficult

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

prove anything. It would be very difficult to find any evidence of
intoxication after all this time.

The PP offered an option that "he went out of his way to run her down".
If there was any evidence, or suggestion of that at the beginning I
believe it would have been investigated.

--
Matt B

Listen, I am the PP. I know what I said. As I've explained before, I use a
Google groups account only when I'm posting from work. I know the area
around the velodrome, where Emma was knocked off her bike. The cycle lane is
segregated from the road in that area, so in my opinion (and it was just my
opinion) it would take some doing for him to knock her off just by /simple/
accident. Lane/path? You say 'tomAto', I say 'tomARto'.

--
David Lloyd,
The pub is responsible for my opinions.

David Lloyd said:

Listen, I am the PP.

Fair enough, but it would have been more apparent if you used the same name.

Quoted message said:

I know what I said. As I've explained before, I use a
Google groups account only when I'm posting from work.

I've never read it before. So, just to clarify:
"Sirius631" == "David Lloyd" ?

Quoted message said:

I know the area
around the velodrome, where Emma was knocked off her bike. The cycle lane is
segregated from the road in that area,

By what - a kerb, wall, armco, hedge, white line, grass verge?

Quoted message said:

so in my opinion (and it was just my
opinion) it would take some doing for him to knock her off just by /simple/
accident. Lane/path? You say 'tomAto', I say 'tomARto'.

The term 'cycle path' isn't used in the highway code, so I assumed
(maybe incorrectly) that you meant 'cycle track', as opposed to 'cycle
lane'.

--
Matt B

in message <[email hidden]>, dkahn400

(') said:

David Lloyd said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sirius631 wrote:
> And he ran her down whilst she was riding on a cycle path,
Do you have a source for that? The BBC report says "... was knocked
off her bike in a cycle lane in Manchester".

You just answered your own question. Anyway, there was plenty of
coverage of that fact when the incident happened.

A cycle lane is not the same thing as a cycle path. Dangerous places,
cycle lanes.

That means they are the same. Very dangerous places, cycle paths, in
general - do /not/ use without thought.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

' ' <------- this blank intentionally spaced left

Matt B said:

David Lloyd said:

Listen, I am the PP.

Fair enough, but it would have been more apparent if you used the same name.

Quoted message said:

I know what I said. As I've explained before, I use a
Google groups account only when I'm posting from work.

I've never read it before. So, just to clarify:
"Sirius631" == "David Lloyd" ?

Quoted message said:

I know the area
around the velodrome, where Emma was knocked off her bike. The cycle lane is
segregated from the road in that area,

By what - a kerb, wall, armco, hedge, white line, grass verge?

Quoted message said:

so in my opinion (and it was just my
opinion) it would take some doing for him to knock her off just by /simple/
accident. Lane/path? You say 'tomAto', I say 'tomARto'.

The term 'cycle path' isn't used in the highway code, so I assumed
(maybe incorrectly) that you meant 'cycle track', as opposed to 'cycle
lane'.

OK. Sorry for the confussion. I should understand that it is impossible
for everyone to read everything. Yes Sirius631=dldl11345=David Lloyd. I
should have picked a nickname similar to my home e-mail addi, I
suppose.

As to the segregation of the cycle lane. For the most part, it is
seperated from the road by kerbs forming a wide-ish barrier on which
other street signage is located. Thinking more about it, there are
points at which it crosses access roads for Philipps Park and the
cemetry, but these are not public rights of way. IMHO, if you stray
into the cycle lane in a car, you will soon know about it when you hit
the kerbs/road signs or take out your sump. God knows how this numpty
managed it.

David Lloyd
Not been anywhere near the the pub - so I can't blame that.

Tim Hall said:

The bloke who knocked Olympian Emma Davies-Jones off her bike has been
found guilty of driving without due care, failing to stop and failing
to report an accident.

Sentence will be passed next week.

Story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6196636.stm

Sentence now passed. 6 month ban, 12-month community service order and
ordered to pay costs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6216524.stm

Tim

Sirius631 said:

Matt B said:

David Lloyd said:

I know the area
around the velodrome, where Emma was knocked off her bike. The cycle lane is
segregated from the road in that area,

By what - a kerb, wall, armco, hedge, white line, grass verge?

Quoted message said:

so in my opinion (and it was just my
opinion) it would take some doing for him to knock her off just by /simple/
accident.

As to the segregation of the cycle lane. For the most part, it is
seperated from the road by kerbs forming a wide-ish barrier on which
other street signage is located. Thinking more about it, there are
points at which it crosses access roads for Philipps Park and the
cemetry, but these are not public rights of way. IMHO, if you stray
into the cycle lane in a car, you will soon know about it when you hit
the kerbs/road signs or take out your sump. God knows how this numpty
managed it.

According to a report from the GMP[1]:

"Emma, aged 27 at the time, was travelling in the cycle lane on Pottery
Lane across the junction of Gorton Road at 10.30am, when Craig turned
left onto Gorton Road and collided with her in his maroon Ford Escort.
The bike hit the nearside of the car a number of times and Emma fell
into the road with the bike falling on top of her"

No kerbs, no barrier.

[1]
http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/FE6AD86E55D07A7E802572360057A4B1.htm
--
Matt B

Tim Hall said:

Tim Hall said:

The bloke who knocked Olympian Emma Davies-Jones off her bike has
been found guilty of driving without due care, failing to stop and
failing to report an accident.

Sentence will be passed next week.

Story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6196636.stm

Sentence now passed. 6 month ban, 12-month community service order and
ordered to pay costs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6216524.stm

No, that's someone else you're thinking of. After all, if the ex foster
child of a neighbour of mine gets 12 months in prison for going round to the
house of the bloke who nicked his mobile and breaking a window in the
kerfuffle, then surely a callous disregard for someone you've hit with a
lethal weapon is considered to be much worse.

A

Ambrose Nankivell said:

Tim Hall said:

Tim Hall said:

The bloke who knocked Olympian Emma Davies-Jones off her bike has
been found guilty of driving without due care, failing to stop and
failing to report an accident.
...

Sentence now passed. 6 month ban, 12-month community service order and
ordered to pay costs.

No, that's someone else you're thinking of. After all, if the ex foster
child of a neighbour of mine gets 12 months in prison for going round to the
house of the bloke who nicked his mobile and breaking a window in the
kerfuffle, then surely a callous disregard for someone you've hit with a
lethal weapon is considered to be much worse.

AFAIK leaving someone injured, whether deliberately, carelessly, or
accidentally caused, isn't an offence in the UK. The offences in this
case were to do with failing to stop to leave details, failing to report
the incident to the police within 24 hours, and driving without due care
and attention.

In other jurisdictions you are obliged to assist an injured person, and
knowingly leaving them unattended is, rightly IMHO, considered to be a
very serious offence.

--
Matt B