more dreadful composites

in rec.bicycles.tech jim beam said:

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

My personal preferences about CF mirror your own; however, anything
will break if you put enough force against it. CF just has a nasty
failure mode.

I was driving the other day and happened upon the aftermath of a CF
fork pulling away from its dropouts in the roof rack on Interstate
35... there wasn't much left after the following couple of cars hit
it. Since the couple had been at the same ralley I had, I stopped.
The dropouts were still clamped in the rack.

Actually, that's a well known failure and not unique to CF.

Jones

!Jones said:

Actually, that's a well known failure and not unique to CF.

So why mention it in a CF thread?

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/bruchversuch-e.html

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

Wow, you're now resorting to arguing by way of associationg bike CF issues
with one irrelevant and unrelated article on CF wing overload testing! As
if this somehow verifies your utterly ignorant views of not just CF, but CF
as applied to bikes!

Lying fraudulent [censored], your time is over. Give it up, you need to let go
of the years of "investment" you've poured on your sham persona here.

Quoted message said:

Dropouts pulling out of the fork blades is a "well known" failure mode?
I don't recall any prior reports of that in r.b.t. or any other cycling
media.

-------------
think of the wind force on those light
bikes. Have you ever driven with kayaks
stacked on their side on a roof rack? A
side wind moves the whole car sideways,
and you just pray the roof rack doesn't
get pulled out by the roots. I always
put my bikes on a rack on the back of
the vehicle, where they have a chance
for survival.

in rec.bicycles.tech vey said:

!Jones said:

Actually, that's a well known failure and not unique to CF.

So why mention it in a CF thread?

Oh, you'll get over it, I suppose. And, if not, then accept my
regrets.

Jones

In article <[email hidden]>,

!Jones said:

in rec.bicycles.tech jim beam said:

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

My personal preferences about CF mirror your own; however, anything
will break if you put enough force against it. CF just has a nasty
failure mode.

I was driving the other day and happened upon the aftermath of a CF
fork pulling away from its dropouts in the roof rack on Interstate
35... there wasn't much left after the following couple of cars hit
it. Since the couple had been at the same ralley I had, I stopped.
The dropouts were still clamped in the rack.

Actually, that's a well known failure and not unique to CF.

Dropouts pulling out of the fork blades is a "well known" failure mode?
I don't recall any prior reports of that in r.b.t. or any other cycling
media.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jambo" <[email protected]>

Quoted message said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/bruchversuch-e.html

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

Wow, you're now resorting to arguing by way of associationg bike CF
issues with one irrelevant and unrelated article on CF wing overload
testing! As if this somehow verifies your utterly ignorant views of
not just CF, but CF as applied to bikes!

Lying fraudulent [censored], your time is over. Give it up, you need to
let go of the years of "investment" you've poured on your sham
persona here.

Jeez, and I thought calling jim beam a "liar" in a few threads was
bordering on incivility.

jim beam said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/bruchversuch-e.html

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

People should be imprisoned for doing that to a DG-100 wing.

in rec.bicycles.tech Tim McNamara said:

Dropouts pulling out of the fork blades is a "well known" failure mode?
I don't recall any prior reports of that in r.b.t. or any other cycling
media.

Uuuh... yeah... but I can't put my finger on it right now. It happens
when you clamp the drop outs into a rack, The drag on the bike,
particularly if there's a side component, has lots of leverage in
directions that the forks weren't designed to take... and the forks
most deffo can (and many have) fail in this situation. They weren't
meant to be clamped with the torque coming at a 1 meter moment!

I'll see if I can find the article... If I can't, I'll write one and
publish it!

Jones

Tosspot said:

jim beam said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/bruchversuch-e.html

Quoted message said:

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

Quoted message said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

People should be imprisoned for doing that to a DG-100 wing.

I've seen the same test on a B-747. Very impressive when that spar
let loose. Crash and breakage tests are normal for sailplane
manufacturers: http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/index_e.htm

When I go banging down a ridge at 120 knots with a ship ballasted to
over 11 pounds per square foot, it is heartening to know that the
manufacturer has tested the design in excess of the limitations in the
pilot operating handbook.

If you don't like composites, don't buy them. Anything will break if
you do something it wasn't designed to do. DG has also a video taking
a glider beyond red line speed. I wouldn't do that either.

Chip F.
ASW 27B driver

On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 18:55:08 -0700, in rec.bicycles.tech Crescentius

Vespasianus said:

Quoted message said:

Dropouts pulling out of the fork blades is a "well known" failure mode?
I don't recall any prior reports of that in r.b.t. or any other cycling
media.

-------------
think of the wind force on those light
bikes. Have you ever driven with kayaks
stacked on their side on a roof rack? A
side wind moves the whole car sideways,
and you just pray the roof rack doesn't
get pulled out by the roots. I always
put my bikes on a rack on the back of
the vehicle, where they have a chance
for survival.

There was a video on U-tube of that happening on a team car at Giro...
and a 60 MPH wind certainly has plenty of force to twist the forks
right off of the dropouts; it has lots of leverage. I use a Sportsrig
trailer with my bikes guyed out... it's more trouble, but a fork clamp
alone isn't safe at speed.

Jones

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

moron.

Yes, I see it all now.

"jim beam", r.b.t's legendary

- CF Fork Whisperer
- "Mettaleuregits" who attended "muterials skool" more than 30 years ago
- CIA Black Ops operative in Vietnam
- Privvy to CLASSIFIED military information on composites way before they
existed

Don't hassle this guy anymore about his sources of info on anything and
everything - they're CLASSIFIED.

Okay?

Jambo said:

"jim beam" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

moron.

Yes, I see it all now.

"jim beam", r.b.t's legendary

- CF Fork Whisperer
- "Mettaleuregits" who attended "muterials skool" more than 30 years ago
- CIA Black Ops operative in Vietnam
- Privvy to CLASSIFIED military information on composites way before they
existed

Don't hassle this guy anymore about his sources of info on anything and
everything - they're CLASSIFIED.

Okay?

take your meds, moron.

chipsoars said:

Tosspot said:

jim beam said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/bruchversuch-e.html

Quoted message said:

must be [censored] - i mean, this wing /broke/ for peter cole's sake...

Quoted message said:

http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.com/Videos/bruchversuch-i.wmv

People should be imprisoned for doing that to a DG-100 wing.

I've seen the same test on a B-747. Very impressive when that spar
let loose. Crash and breakage tests are normal for sailplane
manufacturers: http://www.alexander-schleicher.de/index_e.htm

When I go banging down a ridge at 120 knots with a ship ballasted to
over 11 pounds per square foot, it is heartening to know that the
manufacturer has tested the design in excess of the limitations in the
pilot operating handbook.

Well yes or course, but they mangled a work of art!!!

Quoted message said:

If you don't like composites, don't buy them. Anything will break if
you do something it wasn't designed to do. DG has also a video taking
a glider beyond red line speed. I wouldn't do that either.

I'm fine with compsoites, time and a place for everything with me.