More Heart Rate Training Questions

[bgoetz]

I have been doing quite a bit of regimented training on the indoor trainer for the past couple of months. I consider myself fairly "bike fit", in the sense that I can hold my own in most groups of riders (I know this does not tell you much because you don't know who I ride with). My goal is to give racing a shot this year and I am setting up my training to be as strong as possible come race season. My training has consisted of the following:

Day 1: 20 min LT interval (167-170 bpm)/ 10 min recovery (140-145 bpm)/ 20 min LT interval (165-167 bpm)
Day 2: 1hr recovery (140-145 bpm)
Day 3: 10x 30 sec on 30 sec off VO2 max intervals/ 10 min recovery >130 bpm/ 10x 30/30 VO2 max intervals (I typically see 175-178 bpm never more, but I do understand that HR shown may not be accurate in these short effort)
Day 4: 1hr recovery (140-145 bpm)
Day 5: 20 min LT interval (167-170 bpm)/ 10 min recovery (140-145 bpm)/ 20 min LT interval (165-167 bpm)
Day 6: 1.5hr steady pace (155-160 bpm)
Day 7: off

I don't have a power meter so I am not sure how to describe how hard I am going when I complete these efforts except that my speed is typically around 22-23mph for the LT intervals and 28+ mph for the VO2 max intervals on a fluid trainer. Based on a generic comparison of "real world riding" my trainer seems to take about 3mph more effort.

The issue is that during the LT intervals the best description of my perceived effort would be that my breathing is very labored to the point where it is difficult to drink, but not ragged to where I can't drink or talk. During my VO2 max I would describe my breathing as ragged. In all cases my legs seem to be the limiting factor, they just start to give out on me, I hit a point where I can't make any more power. Given that my legs seem to be limiting me there is no way I can get my HR any higher than 180 bpm, which is concerning to me given that I hear of many people riding at HR of 190+. The thing is I would consider my legs to be pretty strong, and it is not a cadence issue because even if I go up a gear and increase my cadence my legs still give out at the same HR. So any suggestions on how to modify my training to have the legs to get my HR up a bit higher? I know that HR varies significantly of individual to individual and all that really matters is bettering the power that I can put out, but it just seems to me that I should have the ability to get my HR somewhere close to my max (191 calculated)?

Thanks!

 

[CalicoCat]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .

I have been doing quite a bit of regimented training on the indoor trainer for the past couple of months. I consider myself fairly "bike fit", in the sense that I can hold my own in most groups of riders (I know this does not tell you much because you don't know who I ride with). My goal is to give racing a shot this year and I am setting up my training to be as strong as possible come race season. My training has consisted of the following:

Day 1: 20 min LT interval (170-173 bpm)/ 10 min recovery (140-145 bpm)/ 20 min LT interval (167-170 bpm)
Day 2: 1hr recovery (140-145 bpm)
Day 3: 10x 30 sec on 30 sec off VO2 max intervals/ 10 min recovery >130 bpm/ 10x 30/30 VO2 max intervals (I typically see 175-178 bpm never more, but I do understand that HR shown may not be accurate in these short effort)
Day 4: 1hr recovery (140-145 bpm)
Day 5: 20 min LT interval (170-173 bpm)/ 10 min recovery (140-145 bpm)/ 20 min LT interval (167-170 bpm)
Day 6: 1.5hr steady pace (155-160 bpm)
Day 7: off

I don't have a power meter so I am not sure how to describe how hard I am going when I complete these efforts except that my speed is typically around 22-23mph for the LT intervals and 28+ mph for the VO2 max intervals on a fluid trainer. Based on a generic comparison of "real world riding" my trainer seems to take about 3mph more effort.

The issue is that during the LT intervals the best description of my perceived effort would be that my breathing is very labored to the point where it is difficult to drink, but not ragged to where I can't drink or talk. During my VO2 max I would describe my breathing as ragged. In all cases my legs seem to be the limiting factor, they just start to give out on me, I hit a point where I can't make any more power. Given that my legs seem to be limiting me there is no way I can get my HR any higher than 180 bpm, which is concerning to me given that I hear of many people riding at HR of 190+. The thing is I would consider my legs to be pretty strong, and it is not a cadence issue because even if I go up a gear and increase my cadence my legs still give out at the same HR. So any suggestions on how to modify my training to have the legs to get my HR up a bit higher? I know that HR varies significantly of individual to individual and all that really matters is bettering the power that I can put out, but it just seems to me that I should have the ability to get my HR somewhere close to my max (191 calculated)?

Thanks!

I never train with a HRM and instead use either a PM or just go with PE, so I can't speak directly to your questions.

However, despite your saying that yours isn't a gearing issue, I am still inclined to think along those lines. When I am trying to put out a steady-state effort, like in a TT, I try to settle on gears where my lungs hurt and my legs hurt, but neither hurts too much that I fear not being able to finish (or sustain my power output). A "wrong" gear is when I am breathing fine but my legs are screaming. Maybe you should try switching down a couple of gears.

Final note: if you are serious about racing next season, I would consider trying to build on that 1.5hrs on day6. One long ride per week is great for building endurance, and FTP. How do you feel at the end of 1.5hrs? Could you have gone 2hrs? My coach has me riding 3+hrs on the trainer one day per week all winter. It is hard both mentally and physically, but come those long road races early in the season, I definitely thank her!

 

[bgoetz]

Thanks for the advice! I will give different gears another shot. It is kind of hard on the trainer, on the road it seems easier to "feel" if you are int he right/wrong gear because you can actually feel how fast you are going.

As far as endurance goes I could certainly spend much more time on the trainer @ my day 6 pace. The issue I run into on the trainer is comfort. It seems like since my weight is on one spot on the saddle for so long after 1.5hrs I start running into some "problems" and after 2hrs (the most I have spent on a trainer) the "problems" are pretty unbearable. Once the weather gets a bit nicer I planned on trying to get outside as much as possible, I was going to do some longer rides then.

 

[CalicoCat]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .

Thanks for the advice! I will give different gears another shot. It is kind of hard on the trainer, on the road it seems easier to "feel" if you are int he right/wrong gear because you can actually feel how fast you are going.

As far as endurance goes I could certainly spend much more time on the trainer @ my day 6 pace. The issue I run into on the trainer is comfort. It seems like since my weight is on one spot on the saddle for so long after 1.5hrs I start running into some "problems" and after 2hrs (the most I have spent on a trainer) the "problems" are pretty unbearable. Once the weather gets a bit nicer I planned on trying to get outside as much as possible, I was going to do some longer rides then.

Yeah, discomfort on the saddle indoors in a common problem. Try chamois cream and also moving around a bit - a few pedal strokes out of the saddle every 5-10 min goes a long way towards easing discomfort on those long indoor rides.