Mountain Lion Kills Mountain Biker

[Mike Vandeman]

The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my view that
(1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat and disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and
(2) humans don't belong EVERYWHERE; wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve
to have habitat that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are
dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the Cleveland National Forest
to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.

It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to survive, the only way it knows
how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal first, and then try to justify it (by claiming
it was the culprit) later. Among humans, you are innocent till proven guilty.

Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain biking: riding with
others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't exist. For them, mountain biking
always comes first....
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Jeff Strickland]

YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE!

The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it attacked her because it is a
natural instinct for predators to seek prey. Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do
not normally go after people, and this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has learned
that people are acceptable targets to go aftrer instead of unacceptable prey that it should avoid.

This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****!

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my
view that
> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
> too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat
and
> disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong
EVERYWHERE;
> wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have
habitat
> that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are dangerous to humans.
> Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the
Cleveland
> National Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.
>
> It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to
survive, the
> only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal
first,
> and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among
humans,
> you are innocent till proven guilty.
>
> Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain
biking:
> riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't
exist.
> For them, mountain biking always comes first....
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Jeffp]

To: Mikey,

From: JeffP posted in alt.mountain-bike

(To all the other NG's I'm sorry you have to see this)

I've contained myself as much as possible these last few weeks

Your first post and web site made me think.....

1. You are either a sick puppy or John Muir reincarnated.
2. You may just be a sick puppy.

The subsequent posts have not persuaded anyone to join your flock.

You have however angered people, People who are the best candidates for assisting (not you) with
saving our natural habitats.

You are a poor judge of people and must live with that. You should live your life and not try to
make up for your own self doubts by trying to tell others what they should do and think, manage your
own life, write a book about it.

You are WRONG about everything you think because you do not see what is really happening in the
world. It's not black and white. Humankind's distruction of the earth pales in comparison to the
past mass extinctions, the earth will be fine until the sun burns out.

Remember, without you, either man will serve nature or nature will try another experiment, no input
by you is needed.

You don't have to annoy or bother this NG anymore, we get it, we don't agree with you, you're not
welcome here, go away.

JeffP....

"Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE!
>
> The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it attacked her because it is
> a natural instinct for predators to seek prey. Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions
> do not normally go after people, and this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has
> learned that people are acceptable targets to go aftrer instead of unacceptable prey that it
> should avoid.
>
> This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****!
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my
> view that
> > (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make
> > it too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat
> and
> > disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong
> EVERYWHERE;
> > wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have
> habitat
> > that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are dangerous to humans.
> > Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the
> Cleveland
> > National Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.
> >
> > It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to
> survive, the
> > only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal
> first,
> > and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among
> humans,
> > you are innocent till proven guilty.
> >
> > Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain
> biking:
> > riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't
> exist.
> > For them, mountain biking always comes first....
> > ===
> > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> >
> > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Nathan]

> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

go for it.. and your 8 years of effort, did it work for you? You should consider working on
something that you can impact,

otherwise you will most likely not have much happiness!

nathan

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

.YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE! . .The mountain lion did not
attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .attacked her because it is a natural instinct for
predators to seek prey.

Right. And she got there only because she is a mountain biker. Mountain bikers are too lazy to WALK.

.Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go after .people, and this lion
has gotten two people that we know about. It has .learned that people are acceptable targets to go
aftrer instead of .unacceptable prey that it should avoid.

They ARE acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers.

.This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****!

That's why the park should be closed to people. DUH!

."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:[email protected]... .> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking
mountain bikers confirms my .view that .> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or
ANYWHERE off of .> pavement; they make it too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat .and .>
disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong .EVERYWHERE; .> wildlife have
already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have .habitat .> that is closed to all humans.
This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch
Wilderness Park in the .Cleveland .> National Forest to human access is the only appropriate
response to this .> incident. .> .> It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying
to .survive, the .> only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal .first,
.> and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among .humans, .> you are
innocent till proven guilty. .> .> Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE
mountain .biking: .> riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't
.exist. .> For them, mountain biking always comes first.... .> === .> I am working on creating
wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:58:48 GMT, "JeffP" <[email protected]> wrote:

.To: Mikey, . .From: JeffP posted in alt.mountain-bike . .(To all the other NG's I'm sorry you have
to see this) . .I've contained myself as much as possible these last few weeks . .Your first post
and web site made me think..... . .1. You are either a sick puppy or John Muir reincarnated. .2. You
may just be a sick puppy. . .The subsequent posts have not persuaded anyone to join your flock. .
.You have however angered people, People who are the best candidates for .assisting (not you) with
saving our natural habitats. . .You are a poor judge of people and must live with that. You should
live your .life and not try to make up for your own self doubts by trying to tell others .what they
should do and think, manage your own life, write a book about it. . .You are WRONG about everything
you think because you do not see what is really .happening in the world.

BS. If I were wrong, I wouldn't have been invited to speak at so many scientific and environmental
conferences.

It's not black and white. Humankind's distruction of
.the earth pales in comparison to the past mass extinctions,

That's not true. Read E.O. Wilson.

the earth will be .fine until the sun burns out. . .Remember, without you, either man will serve
nature or nature will try another .experiment, no input by you is needed. . .You don't have to annoy
or bother this NG anymore, we get it, we don't agree .with you, you're not welcome here, go away.

I don't annoy anyone; I simply tell the truth, which mountain bikers think is "annoying" (but
others enjoy).

.JeffP.... . . ."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:[email protected]... .> YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A
BIKING ISSUE! .> .> The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .>
attacked her because it is a natural instinct for predators to seek prey. .> Killing the lion was
the ONLY option because lions do not normally go after .> people, and this lion has gotten two
people that we know about. It has .> learned that people are acceptable targets to go aftrer instead
of .> unacceptable prey that it should avoid. .> .> This lion would attack any person it might find.
You are so full of ****! .> .> .> .> .> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message .>
news:[email protected]... .> > The fact that a mountain lion is attacking
mountain bikers confirms my .> view that .> > (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open
spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .> > pavement; they make it too easy for people to get into wildlife
habitat .> and .> > disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong .>
EVERYWHERE; .> > wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have .> habitat .>
> that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> > dangerous to
humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the .> Cleveland .> > National Forest to human
access is the only appropriate response to this .> > incident. .> > .> > It was INEXCUSABLE to kill
the mountain lion. It was just trying to .> survive, the .> > only way it knows how. It is
interesting that we always kill the animal .> first, .> > and then try to justify it (by claiming it
was the culprit) later. Among .> humans, .> > you are innocent till proven guilty. .> > .> >
Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain .> biking: .> > riding with
others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't .> exist. .> > For them, mountain
biking always comes first.... .> > === .> > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
limits to .> > humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> > years fighting
auto dependence and road construction.) .> > .> > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Rick Hopkins]

Mike Vandeman wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE! . .The mountain lion did not
> attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .attacked her because it is a natural instinct for
> predators to seek prey.
>
> Right. And she got there only because she is a mountain biker. Mountain bikers are too lazy
> to WALK.
>
> .Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go after .people, and this
> lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has .learned that people are acceptable targets
> to go aftrer instead of .unacceptable prey that it should avoid.
>
> They ARE acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers.

Did a mt. biker run over your mother? Why have most attacks the last twenty years been on hikers?

> .This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****!
>
> That's why the park should be closed to people. DUH!
>
> ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]... .> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking
> mountain bikers confirms my .view that .> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces,
> or ANYWHERE off of .> pavement; they make it too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat .and
> .> disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong .EVERYWHERE; .> wildlife
> have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have .habitat .> that is closed to all
> humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting
> Ranch Wilderness Park in the .Cleveland .> National Forest to human access is the only appropriate
> response to this .> incident. .> .> It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just
> trying to .survive, the .> only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal
> .first, .> and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among .humans, .>
> you are innocent till proven guilty. .> .> Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for
> even MORE mountain .biking: .> riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature
> doesn't .exist. .> For them, mountain biking always comes first.... .> === .> I am working on
> creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent
> the previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Rick Hopkins]

Mike Vandeman wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:58:48 GMT, "JeffP" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .To: Mikey, . .From: JeffP posted in alt.mountain-bike . .(To all the other NG's I'm sorry you
> have to see this) . .I've contained myself as much as possible these last few weeks . .Your first
> post and web site made me think..... . .1. You are either a sick puppy or John Muir reincarnated.
> .2. You may just be a sick puppy. . .The subsequent posts have not persuaded anyone to join your
> flock. . .You have however angered people, People who are the best candidates for .assisting (not
> you) with saving our natural habitats. . .You are a poor judge of people and must live with that.
> You should live your .life and not try to make up for your own self doubts by trying to tell
> others .what they should do and think, manage your own life, write a book about it. . .You are
> WRONG about everything you think because you do not see what is really .happening in the world.
>
> BS. If I were wrong, I wouldn't have been invited to speak at so many scientific and environmental
> conferences.

Mike, I have never seen your name at signficant ecological conferneces, you speak at enviro
conferences. The very very few times I have ever heard your name come up at a signficant ecological
conference it is as a butt of a joke.

You have conducted not one empirical ecological study that would ever find the light of day in a
peer reveiwed jounal.

Rick

It's not black and white. Humankind's distruction of
> .the earth pales in comparison to the past mass extinctions,
>
> That's not true. Read E.O. Wilson.
>
> the earth will be .fine until the sun burns out. . .Remember, without you, either man will serve
> nature or nature will try another .experiment, no input by you is needed. . .You don't have to
> annoy or bother this NG anymore, we get it, we don't agree .with you, you're not welcome here,
> go away.
>
> I don't annoy anyone; I simply tell the truth, which mountain bikers think is "annoying" (but
> others enjoy).
>
> .JeffP.... . . ."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]... .> YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO
> A BIKING ISSUE! .> .> The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .>
> attacked her because it is a natural instinct for predators to seek prey. .> Killing the lion was
> the ONLY option because lions do not normally go after .> people, and this lion has gotten two
> people that we know about. It has .> learned that people are acceptable targets to go aftrer
> instead of .> unacceptable prey that it should avoid. .> .> This lion would attack any person it
> might find. You are so full of ****! .> .> .> .> .> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
> in message .> news:[email protected]... .> > The fact that a mountain
> lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my .> view that .> > (1) bicycles don't belong in our
> parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .> > pavement; they make it too easy for people to get
> into wildlife habitat .> and .> > disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't
> belong .> EVERYWHERE; .> > wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have
> .> habitat .> > that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> >
> dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the .> Cleveland .> > National
> Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this .> > incident. .> > .> > It was
> INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to .> survive, the .> > only way it
> knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal .> first, .> > and then try to
> justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among .> humans, .> > you are innocent till
> proven guilty. .> > .> > Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain
> .> biking: .> > riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't .>
> exist. .> > For them, mountain biking always comes first.... .> > === .> > I am working on
> creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> > humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I
> spent the previous 8 .> > years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> > .> >
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Bill Z.]

"nathan" <[email protected]> writes:

> > I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> > help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> >
> > http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

He managed to get a letter published in the San Francisco Chronicle (locals sometimes joke it prints
all the news that amuses.)

Seems he is now living in Hayward, which isn't exactly a car-free zone and is no where near as PC as
Berkeley. It does have a BART station, however.

See

<http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/01/14/EDG3548NHP1.DTL>

for the letter, which gave his name + the city he lives in.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB

 

[Jeff Strickland]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> .YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE! . .The mountain lion did not
> attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .attacked her because it is a natural instinct for
> predators to seek prey.
>
> Right. And she got there only because she is a mountain biker. Mountain
bikers
> are too lazy to WALK.
>

Your suggestion is that had she walked, the cat would not have attacked. This suggestion is
blatantly false.

> .Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go
after
> .people, and this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has .learned that people are
> acceptable targets to go aftrer instead of .unacceptable prey that it should avoid.
>
> They ARE acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers.
>

Wrong again. Humans are never acceptable prey. Indeed, mountain lions normally cower when a human is
in the vicinity, this mountain lion attacked two humans and it is/was only a matter of time before
it attacked again.

> .This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****!
>
> That's why the park should be closed to people. DUH!
>
********! The park had been opened for many years, and there are several just like it in the region.
There is also a National Forest that is immediatly adjacent to the wilderness area.

You are a blithering idiot.

 

[Chris Phillipo]

> > .Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go
> after
> > .people, and this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has .learned that people are
> > acceptable targets to go aftrer instead of .unacceptable prey that it should avoid.
> >
> > They ARE acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers.
> >
>
> Wrong again. Humans are never acceptable prey. Indeed, mountain lions normally cower when a human
> is in the vicinity, this mountain lion attacked two humans and it is/was only a matter of time
> before it attacked again.
>

It's unfortunate that Mikey is a shut-in and mountian lions have trouble with door knobs.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

[Jack]

In article <[email protected]>,
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote:

> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my view that
> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
> too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat and disturb the wildlife whose home it is

So are you saying that since a person might run into a lion they should not hike there either? As
you know there have been incidents between hikers and lions also.

Jack

 

[Michael Paul]

if you actually did the research (yeah, yeah, I know. with facts it's so much harder to be right all
the time) you'd see that this of the 13 documented attacks in California EVER, two were against
cyclists. Which equals 15% of all attacks. That means, the other 85% of the attacks were made on non-
cyclists also known as what? that's right. Hikers!

so one can thus conclude that hiking in the mountains is far more dangerous due to the number of
attacks against them.

However, once again you prove how much of an ass you are and further remove what shred of
credibility you think you actually have.

Michael

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my
view that
> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of pavement; they make it
> too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat
and
> disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong
EVERYWHERE;
> wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have
habitat
> that is closed to all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are dangerous to humans.
> Closing the Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park in the
Cleveland
> National Forest to human access is the only appropriate response to this incident.
>
> It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying to
survive, the
> only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal
first,
> and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among
humans,
> you are innocent till proven guilty.
>
> Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain
biking:
> riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't
exist.
> For them, mountain biking always comes first....
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
> help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 22:05:00 GMT, jack <[email protected]> wrote:

.In article <[email protected]>,
. Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote: . .> The fact that a mountain lion is attacking
mountain bikers confirms my view .> that .> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open
spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .> pavement; they make it too easy for people to get into wildlife
habitat and .> disturb the wildlife whose home it is . . .So are you saying that since a person
might run into a lion they should .not hike there either? As you know there have been incidents
between .hikers and lions also.

Yes. Can't you read?
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:33:31 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]>
wrote:

. .if you actually did the research (yeah, yeah, I know. with facts it's so .much harder to be right
all the time) you'd see that this of the 13 .documented attacks in California EVER, two were against
cyclists. Which .equals 15% of all attacks. That means, the other 85% of the attacks were .made on
non-cyclists also known as what? that's right. Hikers! . .so one can thus conclude that hiking in
the mountains is far more dangerous .due to the number of attacks against them.

Mountain lions attach humans. Mountain bikers are humans. Humans disturb wildlife. Ergo, the parks
should be closed to EVERONE. DUH! Since you can't read, you didn't notice that I said that. You only
read as far as "mountain biking".

.However, once again you prove how much of an ass you are and further remove .what shred of
credibility you think you actually have. . .Michael . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote
in message .news:[email protected]... .> The fact that a mountain lion is
attacking mountain bikers confirms my .view that .> (1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open
spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .> pavement; they make it too easy for people to get into wildlife
habitat .and .> disturb the wildlife whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong .EVERYWHERE; .>
wildlife have already lost far too much habitat, and deserve to have .habitat .> that is closed to
all humans. This is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting
Ranch Wilderness Park in the .Cleveland .> National Forest to human access is the only appropriate
response to this .> incident. .> .> It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the mountain lion. It was just trying
to .survive, the .> only way it knows how. It is interesting that we always kill the animal .first,
.> and then try to justify it (by claiming it was the culprit) later. Among .humans, .> you are
innocent till proven guilty. .> .> Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE
mountain .biking: .> riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't
.exist. .> For them, mountain biking always comes first.... .> === .> I am working on creating
wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .>
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Michael Paul]

"Rick Hopkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:vypNb.1155$%[email protected]...
>

> Did a mt. biker run over your mother? Why have most attacks the last twenty years been on hikers?
>
>
because this way he can claim how bad cyclist are and it's our own damn fault that it happened. this
way he can conveniently ignore what you pointed out. Far more attacks have been on hikers but since
that's a pastime Dr. Demented is active in it's okay.

Michael

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:42:23 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote:

. ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:[email protected]... .> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800, "Jeff
Strickland" <[email protected]> .wrote: .> .> .YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A
BIKING ISSUE! .> . .> .The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .>
.attacked her because it is a natural instinct for predators to seek prey. .> .> Right. And she
got there only because she is a mountain biker. Mountain .bikers .> are too lazy to WALK. .> .
.Your suggestion is that had she walked, the cat would not have attacked. .This suggestion is
blatantly false.

No, it isn't, becasue wouldn't have gotten that far. Bikers travel at least 5 times as far
as hikers.

.> .Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go .after .> .people, and
this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has .> .learned that people are acceptable
targets to go aftrer instead of .> .unacceptable prey that it should avoid. .> .> They ARE
acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers. .> . .Wrong again. Humans are never acceptable prey.
Indeed, mountain lions .normally cower when a human is in the vicinity, this mountain lion attacked
.two humans and it is/was only a matter of time before it attacked again.

Only if people were there. DUH!

.> .This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of ****! .> .> That's why the
park should be closed to people. DUH! .> .********! The park had been opened for many years, and
there are several .just like it in the region. There is also a National Forest that is .immediatly
adjacent to the wilderness area.

What does that have to do with anything? (Hint: NOTHING.)
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 04:47:28 GMT, "Michael Paul" <mfpaul [email protected]>
wrote:

. ."Rick Hopkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.news:vypNb.1155$%[email protected]... .> . .> Did a mt. biker run over your mother?
Why have most attacks the last .> twenty years been on hikers? .> .> .because this way he can claim
how bad cyclist are and it's our own damn .fault that it happened. this way he can conveniently
ignore what you .pointed out. Far more attacks have been on hikers but since that's a .pastime Dr.
Demented is active in it's okay. . .Michael

Thanks for demonstrating just how STOOPID mountain bikers are. My letter recommended closing the
park to ALL humans, not just mountain biker. You conveniently forgot that.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Mike Vandeman]

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 05:32:24 GMT, Rick Hopkins <[email protected]> wrote:

. . .Mike Vandeman wrote: . .> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:58:48 GMT, "JeffP" <[email protected]>
wrote: .> .> .To: Mikey, .> . .> .From: JeffP posted in alt.mountain-bike .> . .> .(To all the other
NG's I'm sorry you have to see this) .> . .> .I've contained myself as much as possible these last
few weeks .> . .> .Your first post and web site made me think..... .> . .> .1. You are either a sick
puppy or John Muir reincarnated. .> .2. You may just be a sick puppy. .> . .> .The subsequent posts
have not persuaded anyone to join your flock. .> . .> .You have however angered people, People who
are the best candidates for .> .assisting (not you) with saving our natural habitats. .> . .> .You
are a poor judge of people and must live with that. You should live your .> .life and not try to
make up for your own self doubts by trying to tell others .> .what they should do and think, manage
your own life, write a book about it. .> . .> .You are WRONG about everything you think because you
do not see what is really .> .happening in the world. .> .> BS. If I were wrong, I wouldn't have
been invited to speak at so many scientific .> and environmental conferences. . .Mike, I have never
seen your name at signficant ecological conferneces,

Bcause you weren't there. DUH!

.you speak at enviro conferences.

That's because you can't READ, or you would read my web site & see for yourself.

The very very few times I have ever .heard your name come up at a signficant ecological conference
it is as a .butt of a joke. . .You have conducted not one empirical ecological study that would
ever .find the light of day in a peer reveiwed jounal.

Your point?

.Rick . . .It's not black and white. Humankind's distruction of .> .the earth pales in comparison to
the past mass extinctions, .> .> That's not true. Read E.O. Wilson. .> .> the earth will be .> .fine
until the sun burns out. .> . .> .Remember, without you, either man will serve nature or nature will
try another .> .experiment, no input by you is needed. .> . .> .You don't have to annoy or bother
this NG anymore, we get it, we don't agree .> .with you, you're not welcome here, go away. .> .> I
don't annoy anyone; I simply tell the truth, which mountain bikers think is .> "annoying" (but
others enjoy). .> .> .JeffP.... .> . .> . .> ."Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]> wrote in message
.> .news:[email protected]... .> .> YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY
INTO A BIKING ISSUE! .> .> .> .> The mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker,
it .> .> attacked her because it is a natural instinct for predators to seek prey. .> .> Killing the
lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go after .> .> people, and this lion has
gotten two people that we know about. It has .> .> learned that people are acceptable targets to go
aftrer instead of .> .> unacceptable prey that it should avoid. .> .> .> .> This lion would attack
any person it might find. You are so full of ****! .> .> .> .> .> .> .> .> .> .> "Mike Vandeman"
<[email protected]> wrote in message .> .> news:[email protected]... .>
.> > The fact that a mountain lion is attacking mountain bikers confirms my .> .> view that .> .> >
(1) bicycles don't belong in our parks and open spaces, or ANYWHERE off of .> .> > pavement; they
make it too easy for people to get into wildlife habitat .> .> and .> .> > disturb the wildlife
whose home it is; and (2) humans don't belong .> .> EVERYWHERE; .> .> > wildlife have already lost
far too much habitat, and deserve to have .> .> habitat .> .> > that is closed to all humans. This
is ESPECIALLY true for animals that are .> .> > dangerous to humans. Closing the Whiting Ranch
Wilderness Park in the .> .> Cleveland .> .> > National Forest to human access is the only
appropriate response to this .> .> > incident. .> .> > .> .> > It was INEXCUSABLE to kill the
mountain lion. It was just trying to .> .> survive, the .> .> > only way it knows how. It is
interesting that we always kill the animal .> .> first, .> .> > and then try to justify it (by
claiming it was the culprit) later. Among .> .> humans, .> .> > you are innocent till proven guilty.
.> .> > .> .> > Mountain bikers, of course, responded by calling for even MORE mountain .> .>
biking: .> .> > riding with others. This proves that their alleged love of nature doesn't .> .>
exist. .> .> > For them, mountain biking always comes first.... .> .> > === .> .> > I am working on
creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .> .> > humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I
spent the previous 8 .> .> > years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> > .> .> >
http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande .> .> .> . .> .> === .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat
that is off-limits to .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 .> years
fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to
help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

 

[Jeff Strickland]

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 12:42:23 -0800, "Jeff Strickland" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> . ."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> .news:[email protected]... .> On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 08:57:20 -0800, "Jeff
> Strickland"
<[email protected]>
> .wrote: .> .> .YOU ARE SO FULL OF **** TO TURN THIS TRAGEDY INTO A BIKING ISSUE! .> . .> .The
> mountain lion did not attack the biker BECAUSE she was a biker, it .> .attacked her because it is
> a natural instinct for predators to seek
prey.
> .> .> Right. And she got there only because she is a mountain biker. Mountain .bikers .> are too
> lazy to WALK. .> . .Your suggestion is that had she walked, the cat would not have attacked. .This
> suggestion is blatantly false.
>
> No, it isn't, becasue wouldn't have gotten that far. Bikers travel at
least 5
> times as far as hikers.
>

You know NOTHING of the area where these bikers were attacked. The wilderness area is adjacent to
the suburbs of Mission Viejo. These two bikers that were attacked were less than a mile from the
nearest homes.

You are so ignorant!

> .> .Killing the lion was the ONLY option because lions do not normally go .after .> .people, and
> this lion has gotten two people that we know about. It has .> .learned that people are acceptable
> targets to go aftrer instead of .> .unacceptable prey that it should avoid. .> .> They ARE
> acceptable prey, ESPECIALLY mountain bikers. .> . .Wrong again. Humans are never acceptable prey.
> Indeed, mountain lions .normally cower when a human is in the vicinity, this mountain lion
attacked
> .two humans and it is/was only a matter of time before it attacked again.
>
> Only if people were there. DUH!
>

This lion was less than a mile from residential neighborhoods.

> .> .This lion would attack any person it might find. You are so full of
****!
> .> .> That's why the park should be closed to people. DUH! .> .********! The park had been opened
> for many years, and there are several .just like it in the region. There is also a National Forest
> that is .immediatly adjacent to the wilderness area.
>
> What does that have to do with anything? (Hint: NOTHING.)

It has EVERYTHING to do with the topic because you are insisting that this is some remote place
where nobody goes. The fact is, it is a wilderness set-aside to keep the intrusion of development
from taking over the entire county. It is a buffer zone at best, not the pristine wilderness that
you seem to think it is.