MTB/tandem fixtie axle

"Terryc" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I need a load carrying wheel for a one wheel trailer, so it looks like I
need a mtb style wheel, BUT it will be electrically boosted.

So,the question is do they make a fixte hub that would be suitable for an
mtb, or tandem (takes a whie for braintothink of tandem hubs as load
carrying).

TIA

If you're lacing the wheel up yourself or getting your LBS to do it for you
then pretty much any track hub would be suitable. The end result won't be a
cheap wheel but it will be a good one.

Terryc said:

I need a load carrying wheel for a one wheel trailer, so it looks like I
need a mtb style wheel, BUT it will be electrically boosted.

So,the question is do they make a fixte hub that would be suitable for
an mtb, or tandem (takes a whie for braintothink of tandem hubs as load
carrying).

TIA

Are you making an electric pusher trailer? If so, why not use a hub
motor? There are a wide variety to chose from, they ain't light but
no electric vehicle is. I used a 200W brushless from
http://www.ihpva.org/people/tstrike/wwev.htm who may or may not be
defunct (cost around $300). If memory serves I put about 700km on it
before moving on.

This bloke has some good geared hub motors which have loads more
torque than a gearless (in general):
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm He's been
around for a while.

Resound said:

If you're lacing the wheel up yourself

self, always.

Quoted message said:

then pretty much any track hub would be suitable.

I was thinking of a real load, like 300-500 kg, so I do not think they
will be suitable.

Thanks anyway.

I think I actually have an old 28"track hub in the bike bitsand pieces
shed. Thay will probablyget used in the prototype.

Quoted message said:

Are you making an electric pusher trailer? If so, why not use a hub
motor?

For this application, not suitable.
The hub motor are good for the 15km/hr plus speed.

Quoted message said:

I used a 200W brushless from
http://www.ihpva.org/people/tstrike/wwev.htm who may or may not be
defunct (cost around $300).

There are othera around, including one bloke around Newcastle that had
yumchas for about half price. Lost the url.

Quoted message said:

This bloke has some good geared hub motors which have loads more
torque than a gearless (in general):
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm
He's been around for a while.

I think that is the guy I am thinking of.

Since I also like to tinker electronically, I'll probably use my own
external motor for a start. If the idea works, the using a standised
wheel in the front wheel.

Terryc said:

Quoted message said:

Are you making an electric pusher trailer? If so, why not use a hub
motor?

For this application, not suitable.
The hub motor are good for the 15km/hr plus speed.

Quoted message said:

I used a 200W brushless from
http://www.ihpva.org/people/tstrike/wwev.htmwho may or may not be
defunct (cost around $300).

There are othera around, including one bloke around Newcastle that had
yumchas for about half price. Lost the url.

Yeah, I bought that motor almost two years ago. Prices have dropped a
bit, though neodymium magnets and copper still aren't cheap (in fact
copper has gone crazy).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This bloke has some good geared hub motors which have loads more
torque than a gearless (in general):
http://www.users.bigpond.com/solarbbq/bikesale/bsale.htm

Quoted message said:

He's been around for a while.

I think that is the guy I am thinking of.

Since I also like to tinker electronically, I'll probably use my own
external motor for a start. If the idea works, the using a standised
wheel in the front wheel.

I read your other reply, 300-500kg! Crikey, I'd reckon very few hub
motors would be up to that (maybe the one in my scooter
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/EvtSpecs.htm). However it
sounds like an interesting project, so good luck.

Quoted post said:

I read your other reply, 300-500kg! Crikey, I'd reckon very few hub
motors would be up to that (maybe the one in my scooter
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/PARTS/EvtSpecs.htm). However it
sounds like an interesting project, so good luck.

I have some old 48hole freehub tandem hubs that I'm not using due to getting sick of bending axles. That was using a 140mm spacing. If te spacing was reduced the load capacity would go up but 500kg I think would be a bit to much. What are you going to be carting? bags of cement?

Cheers

Geoff

Terryc said:

So,the question is do they make a fixte hub that would be suitable for
an mtb, or tandem (takes a whie for braintothink of tandem hubs as load
carrying).

Surly make a fixed/free mtb hub. As does Phil Wood & White Industries
if you require more bling.

Parbs

Terryc said:

Resound said:

If you're lacing the wheel up yourself

self, always.

Quoted message said:

then pretty much any track hub would be suitable.

I was thinking of a real load, like 300-500 kg, so I do not think they
will be suitable.

For that sort of load, I think you should be considering more than 1
wheel. Even a motorcycle wheel would barely be strong enough for
that.

And definitely some sort of braking system on the trailer.

BTH

BT Humble said:

For that sort of load, I think you should be considering more than 1
wheel.

It is a trade off really. It may turnout to be totally unweildly on one
wheel, but since the load is fixed and can be balanced side to side and
fore and aft, it might be possible to do it. I'm actually expecting the
max load to be well under 300kg, but I'd design frame for 500kg to cover
dynamic forces.

The plan is to build a couple of different proto types and see if either
works. It will be the dynamic forces that travelling throws up that will
be the decider. Even something as small as 50kg resonating is enough to
throw over a bicycle and hefty rider. BTDT.

If it goes over one wheel, I think I'd be better with a trike with twin
turning wheels at front. Not the Dutch type.

Quoted message said:

Even a motorcycle wheel would barely be strong enough for
that.

A motorcycle wheel would be far more than adequate. MC wheels are
designed for loads say of up to 200kg at 100km/hr easily. so they should
easily handle something higher at a max of say 20kms. I doubt if I'd
want to let it even get higher than that on a downhill run.

A third wheel design would put all the weight on the trailer wheel,
where as a bob/flat try style would put most on the trailer wheel, but
some on the rear bicycle wheel, which would probably mean you would
comsume rear axles.

Quoted message said:

And definitely some sort of braking system on the trailer.

Absolutely definitely. I do not want to ride in that sort of interesting
times.

Regen braking is a definite must which is why I was enquiring about a
fixte wheel. Then disc and calipers.

This unfortunately is one project where procrastination will pay off.
the last few years has seen some very inteesting battery development,
which is the major weight.

I know the goal. The project is about seeing how close one can get to it
with different designs.

geoffs said:

I have some old 48hole freehub tandem hubs that I'm not using due to
getting sick of bending axles.

Please msg 48hole at woa.com.au.
They'd be useful.

Terryc said:

BT Humble said:

For that sort of load, I think you should be considering more than 1
wheel.

It is a trade off really. It may turnout to be totally unweildly on one
wheel, but since the load is fixed and can be balanced side to side and
fore and aft, it might be possible to do it. I'm actually expecting the
max load to be well under 300kg, but I'd design frame for 500kg to cover
dynamic forces.

One thing to be aware of is the force on the rear wheel of the bike. I
have a friend who broke his wrist moving house on a bike trailer when
the last load (not the heavy old share-house fridge suprisingly that
went OK) shifted very slightly but enough to lift the rear wheel of the
bike on the ground.

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[email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

Joel Mayes said:

One thing to be aware of is the force on the rear wheel of the bike. I
have a friend who broke his wrist moving house on a bike trailer when
the last load (not the heavy old share-house fridge suprisingly that
went OK) shifted very slightly but enough to lift the rear wheel of the
bike on the ground.

Exactly. I gather this was a two wheel trailer and the load moved
backwards compared to the axles to do that. Was the trailer braked?

The load I have it mind would be bolted down into spots in the frame,
which is the only reason I'm comtemplating it.

Terryc said:

The load I have it mind would be bolted down into spots in the frame,
which is the only reason I'm comtemplating it.

You're being very mysterious about this load! What on earth would
weight that much and be moved often enough to warrant building a
trailer specifically for it? Do we get any clues? 🙂

Graeme

Terryc said:

Joel Mayes said:

One thing to be aware of is the force on the rear wheel of the bike. I
have a friend who broke his wrist moving house on a bike trailer when
the last load (not the heavy old share-house fridge suprisingly that
went OK) shifted very slightly but enough to lift the rear wheel of the
bike on the ground.

Exactly. I gather this was a two wheel trailer and the load moved
backwards compared to the axles to do that. Was the trailer braked?

I think not, He has since designed a auto-braked two wheel trailer using
coaster brake hubs which we're hoping to build over summer.

Quoted message said:

The load I have it mind would be bolted down into spots in the frame,
which is the only reason I'm comtemplating it.

Tool box?

Have you considered using 14mm axle, 48 spoked BMX wheels? Those things are
pretty unbreakable.

Cheers

Joel
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Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

Graeme Dods said:

You're being very mysterious about this load! What on earth would
weight that much and be moved often enough to warrant building a
trailer specifically for it? Do we get any clues? 🙂

lol, oooh, mmmm, okay.

It is very simple. I was able to bicycle tour for 25+ years, then
suddenly I was required to plug into a power point each night. Major
bummer.

Can still get outdoors to base camp using the motor vehicle to carry a
number of batteries. This is okay when your trips are week trips because
you are basically still working.

Now that I've retired, I'd like to ride around Australia and other long
tours again. Rather expensive if I have to pay for power each night and
very route restrictive. I really like back roads.

So this whole thing started out as an exercise to see if it was
possible. A whole pile of "what-if"s has boiled down to;

1) a basic load of four deep discharge lead acid batteries that weigh
35kg each =140kg.[1]
2) petrol based battery charger(12kg) and fuel(8kg?) = 20kg.[2]
3) battery chargers, cords, meters, distilled water = 20kg.
4) water probably 4x5l = 20kg.
5) the usual other junk makes up the rest.

The single wheel trailer idea is highly preferable. Again, it is a
matter of route possibilities.

The design question is whether it can be built in such a way that the
weight acts as a stablising force for itself. It makes it a more
interesting project.

[1] Yes, I have been researching other forms of batteries and basically
lead acid still has whole pile of advantages; total cost, life, safety,
cycles, self discharge, capacity, etc.

[2] sadly, still the best way of recharging batteries away from the
mains power.

Joel Mayes said:

Have you considered using 14mm axle, 48 spoked BMX wheels? Those things are
pretty unbreakable.

These are the radial spoked ones? I've seen them and wondered.
The question I have is what size do they go up to?
Probably should wander down to another LBS and have a look. The LBS
beside the skate park specialised in that stuff, but he came and went in
a year.

Terryc said:

Joel Mayes said:

Have you considered using 14mm axle, 48 spoked BMX wheels? Those things are
pretty unbreakable.

These are the radial spoked ones? I've seen them and wondered.
The question I have is what size do they go up to?
Probably should wander down to another LBS and have a look. The LBS
beside the skate park specialised in that stuff, but he came and went in
a year.

No X3 usually, I've seen them in 11 gauge spokes with a 20'' wheel. If
you're in Melbourne there's a second hand set at work you might like a
look at.

Cheers

Joel
--
Human Powered Cycles | High quality servicing and repairs
[email hidden] | Affordable second hand bikes
(03) 9029 6504 | Bicycle reuse centre
www.humanpowered.com.au | Mechanical and on-road training and instruction

Terryc said:

2) petrol based battery charger(12kg) and fuel(8kg?) = 20kg.[2]

Quoted message said:

[2] sadly, still the best way of recharging batteries away from the
mains power.

Yes, you need huge solar panels to get any really usable power at all. I
installed a smallish panel to charge a battery just recently. This powers a
device to open my front gate remotely. The panel is 450 x 600mm and, on a
sunny day, can produce as much as 11 watts. I'd hate to see what size panel
you need for a couple of Kw.

You can console yourself that the petrol gen set probably produces less
greenhouse gases than the coal burnt when you charge from mains power.

Theo

Terryc said:

2) petrol based battery charger(12kg) and fuel(8kg?) = 20kg.[2]

Quoted message said:

[2] sadly, still the best way of recharging batteries away from the
mains power.

Yes, you need huge solar panels to get any really usable power at all. I
installed a smallish panel to charge a battery just recently. This powers a
device to open my front gate remotely. The panel is 450 x 600mm and, on a
sunny day, can produce as much as 11 watts. I'd hate to see what size panel
you need for a couple of Kw.

You can console yourself that the petrol gen set probably produces less
greenhouse gases than the coal burnt when you charge from mains power.

Theo