Mushy brakes...,.

"TJ Poseno" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Right now I am running Avid 1D v-brakes and Deore LX shifter/lever combo. But my brakes are really
mushy and theres isnt a real positive feel to the brakes. How do I tell if I have V-Brake levers?
Can i measure from the pivot point ro something? Also, if they arent v-brake levers. How do those
brake boosters work?

What did the place you bought the LX shifters from say? They should have said if they were V or
canti. Chances are that they are V.

Do the brakes work? I set my Avid Speed Dial levers with my Avid 1D calipers to the greatest
leverage (least cable pull) and they work great... stop on a dime, but with a mushy feel to them. I
like to call it modulation, but it's not modulation like disc brakes.

Are these cables and housing from your Walmart bike? If so, then you need to switch it out for lined
housing and stainless steel cable. I have a feeling you bought your shifters and calipers from eBay.

If you pull your levers, and then let go real quick and let them snap back, do they snap back with a
ping or are they slow to return? If slow, it's likely your cables and housing are gummed up. If that
doesn't fix it, then check the pivot points in your 1Ds to see if they are dry or sticky. Lightly
lube as needed. Also, while you have the cable off, see how much drag there is in your levers.

Brake boosters stiffen up the bridge between the calipers, lessening fork and seatstay flex when you
brake hard.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

TJ Poseno said:

Right now I am running Avid 1D v-brakes and Deore LX shifter/lever combo. But my brakes are really
mushy and theres isnt a real positive feel to the brakes. How do I tell if I have V-Brake levers?
Can i measure from the pivot point ro something? Also, if they arent v-brake levers. How do those
brake boosters work?

V brake levers should pull at least 22mm of cable before they hit the handlebars.

If the levers are OK, check that there isn't an excessive length of cable housing and that the ends
of the housing are trimmed squarely. Mushy can just mean powerful.

TJ Poseno said:

Right now I am running Avid 1D v-brakes and Deore LX shifter/lever combo. But my brakes are really
mushy and theres isnt a real positive feel to the brakes. How do I tell if I have V-Brake levers?
Can i measure from the pivot point ro something? Also, if they arent v-brake levers. How do those
brake boosters work?

Write back with the Shimano product number* of your lever, for example BL-M570, ST-M570, or
whatever. The product number is on the handlebar clamp. You needn't guess.

The adapters are roughly analogous to the cams in a compound bow. The wire is routed in such a way
as to gain travel in its path across two radii. Clever and they work quite well.

*Gotta hand it to Shimano, they are the only manufacturer in our industry AFAIK to clearly mark each
and every product in a useful manner. Their numbering system is clear, predictable, easily
referenced and can even be interpolated/extrapolated when you don't actually know the number! I wish
a certain Italian family would get with the program. . .
--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

"What did the place you bought the LX shifters from say? They should have said if they were V or
canti. Chances are that they are V."

I got them from a garage sale...

"Do the brakes work? I set my Avid Speed Dial levers with my Avid 1D calipers to the greatest
leverage (least cable pull) and they work great... stop on a dime, but with a mushy feel to them. I
like to call it modulation, but it's not modulation like disc brakes."

They work fine, and I can stop real good, but Id realy liek to get rid of the mushiness.

"Are these cables and housing from your Walmart bike?"

Guilty as charged, but I was wondering, If I bought some new cable, and instead of having it broken
up along the fram, and ran just one long housing instead of 3 short ones, woudl that improve my
braking at all?

"If you pull your levers, and then let go real quick and let them snap back, do they snap back
with a ping or are they slow to return? If slow, it's likely your cables and housing are gummed
up. If that doesn't fix it, then check the pivot points in your 1Ds to see if they are dry or
sticky. Lightly lube as needed. Also, while you have the cable off, see how much drag there is in
your levers."

They're lubed up good and snap back

Also, by brake booster, I mean that little round thign that goes in place of your brake noodle and
suppoisbly let you use any lever with v-brakes. I thought it was called a brake booster.

if they're lx, they're v-brake levers.

some possible causes of "mushiness" [not necessarily in order]

1. misaligned pads
2. cable outer not cut square - think sheldon has an "how-to" on doing this right.
3. frame flex - /some/ boosters fix this great. more likely for rear than front.
4. internally frayed cable leaving only a few strands holding so they stretch more - unlikely & VERY
dangerous.

jb

TJ Poseno said:

Right now I am running Avid 1D v-brakes and Deore LX shifter/lever combo. But my brakes are really
mushy and theres isnt a real positive feel to the brakes. How do I tell if I have V-Brake levers?
Can i measure from the pivot point ro something? Also, if they arent v-brake levers. How do those
brake boosters work?

(TJ Poseno) said:

"Are these cables and housing from your Walmart bike?"

Guilty as charged, but I was wondering, If I bought some new cable, and instead of having it broken
up along the fram, and ran just one long housing instead of 3 short ones, woudl that improve my
braking at all?

Actually, one long housing will cause more mushiness. Any mushiness from the cable housing is
because of the housing compressing, subtracting from the movement of the cable and brake. The less
housing, the less compression *from the housing.*

One thought- did you re-use old brake cables? If so, are there any crimping or bends in the cable
itself? I've tried re-using brake cables and attached one after the previous attachment point. The
original attachment had crimped the cable and it was bent at that point. When I pulled on the brake
lever, some of the energy of the pull was spent taking the crimp and bend out of the cable rather
than actually moving the brake mechanism. Definitely mushy feeling- initial lever movement brought
the pads to the rim, but after that, some of the additional cable pull was used to straighten out
the cable itself, not pull the pads tighter to the rim. A new cable cured the problem.

jim beam said:

if they're lx, they're v-brake levers.

Not if they're 1992 LX ;-)

I did reuse old cable, and I am thinking of getting some new cable. But another question i have is
ont he housings, at my LBS it comes in one big long length, I need to cut this. But what about the
ends, the little caps that go on there, will my lbs have these?

TJ Poseno said:

I did reuse old cable, and I am thinking of getting some new cable. But another question i have is
ont he housings, at my LBS it comes in one big long length, I need to cut this. But what about the
ends, the little caps that go on there, will my lbs have these?

Yes. (Although there's probably nothing wrong with the ones on your current housing.)

Some people advise filing the ends of housing (especially brake); at very least make the hole is
nicely round and open.

Bill "due for new rear brake cable & housing on fully" S.

(TJ Poseno) said:

I did reuse old cable, and I am thinking of getting some new cable. But another question i have is
ont he housings, at my LBS it comes in one big long length, I need to cut this. But what about the
ends, the little caps that go on there, will my lbs have these?

Yes. Ferrules (sp?). Ask them for some. Get some extras- you *will* drop one, and it *will*
disappear.....

Cutting the brake housing is pretty straightforward. If you have doubts, take the old housings in
(assuming that they fit properly) and have the shop cut them to match. They have cutters that give a
smooth end. I use a dremel to smooth the ends before installing the ferrules.

how much toe do you have on the pads? toe leads to mushy

stu said:

toe leads to mushy

Not to mention jam.

Bill "good night, and drive carefully" S.