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New Book "Rethinking Thin"

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
24 September 2007
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5 October 2007
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Jim
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  1. Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    Realities of Dieting

    Gina Kolata

    At Amazon.com
    Tiny URL
    http://tinyurl.com/yszvrl
    Long URL
    http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Thin-Science-Loss-Realities/dp/0374103984/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-1684018-2132957?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190677298&sr=1-1

    From Publishers Weekly
    Starred Review.

    New York Times reporter Kolata may be the best writer around covering
    the science of health. Here she offers an eye-opening book that
    questions all our received wisdom about why we get fat and the health
    hazards of those extra pounds. In chapters equally entertaining and
    dismaying, Kolata (Flu) traces the history of dieting fads back to the
    19th century; discusses our changing ideas about the ideal body (thinner
    and thinner); and, most importantly, explains how genetic and
    biochemical understanding has (at least among researchers) replaced the
    view of obesity as a lack of self-control.

    Most dramatic is Kolata's recounting of Jeff Friedman's groundbreaking
    search at Rockefeller University for the "satiety factor," a hormone he
    called leptin that tells our brains when we're full.

    The science alternates with moving chapters in which Kolata follows a
    group of people in a weight-loss study who are trying desperately to get
    thin—a quest that, as Kolata makes increasingly clear is sadly futile.

    In her final—and perhaps most surprising—chapter, Kolata blasts those in
    the obesity industry—such as Jenny Craig and academic obesity research
    centers—who are invested in promoting the idea that overweight is
    unhealthy and diet and exercise are effective despite a raft of evidence
    to the contrary. This book will change your thinking about weight,
    whether you struggle with it or not. (May)

    ===================================================================

    I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.

    Among other things.....
    * "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    well over a thousand years.

    * Banting and his "Letter on Corpulence" had massive detractors at the
    time. The medical community said there was no basis whatsoever for the
    working of the diet, and individulals penned poison pen letters against
    the giving up of those classic tasty carbohydrate foods.

    * Until recently, there has been very little scientific research on the
    mechanics or chemistry of weight loss.

    * Whenever there is anything that is (temporarily) successful/popular,
    there is a renewed effort to replace it with something new, and this has
    gone on for about a century.

    It may be of interest to a few here.

    Jim

  2. On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:

    Quoted message said:


    Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    Realities of Dieting
    Gina Kolata
    ...
    I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.

    Among other things.....
    * "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    well over a thousand years.

    Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    in fact work for some portion of the population. A set of morons in
    that percentage take the idiotic view of "if it works for me it must
    work
    for everyone" and so there is an endless stream of people saying it.
    If it really were true, there wouldn't be any fat people. If anyone
    imagines there's even one poster to ASD/ASDLC who's never tried
    it (barring cross posters from the fat acceptance newsgroup) then
    they are idiots.

    Go as far back as you like, there have been a percentage of
    obese individuals in any society not starving. The percentage isn't
    even all that different until the recent century.

    That said, the recent increase in obesity as a percentage of the
    population and the occurrence of people with well over 100 pounds
    to lose is new. Morbid obesity levels were never high until now
    as far as I can tell.

    Quoted message said:

    * Banting and his "Letter on Corpulence" had massive detractors at the
    time.

    Just like Atkins now.

    Quoted message said:

    The medical community said there was no basis whatsoever for the
    working of the diet,

    Just like Atkins now. Except now studies are finally coming out that
    show these claims are objectively false. In fact once insulin was
    discovered the first level basis came to be known. In 1994 with the
    discovery of leptin more of the basis has been discovered. The
    knowledge is snowballing.

    But knowing the mechanism has never been included as a mandatory
    part of the Scientific Method. As long as there are actions that
    produce predictable results (including statistically depictable
    results
    rather than certain results) and those results can be quantified and
    repeated experimentally, it is not necessary to understand the
    underlying mechanism. Following Banting/Atkins directions does in
    fact work and does work when done with control groups tracked in
    experimental studies. Any medical claim that it doesn't work shows
    ignorance of science. Medicine is indeed a practice and it is called
    that for a reason. Few doctors know how to apply science to their
    field.

    Quoted message said:

    and individulals penned poison pen letters against
    the giving up of those classic tasty carbohydrate foods.

    Just like Atkins now. Anyone who doubts that these foods trigger
    addictive behavior patterns just compare the poison pen letters we
    see on ASDLC with how smokers react when pressured to quit.
    There is an amazing resemblence to the reaction of pasta addicts
    and the reaction of tobacco addicts.

    Quoted message said:

    * Until recently, there has been very little scientific research on the
    mechanics or chemistry of weight loss.

    True and this is wonderful. Having a model for the chemistry involved
    means smarter processes can be suggested and tried and the
    results tracked. The Atkins process designed in the 1960s/70s is
    much better than could be explained before leptin was discovered,
    but it was stumbled upon by trial and error I think. Dr A tried
    stuff.
    He appears to have tracked the results and apparently tried to publish
    tabular data in the 1970s but was refused. He never again offered
    any of his data at all and there is little sign it even still exists.
    Should
    his raw data from the 1970s be available that would be wonderful.

    Quoted message said:

    * Whenever there is anything that is (temporarily) successful/popular,
    there is a renewed effort to replace it with something new, and this has
    gone on for about a century.

    Cycles of popularity. But you name the type of diet, it has had
    some adherents at all times. Low carb, low fat, low calorie, food
    combination, paleolithic ...

  3. Cubit said:


    My weightloss success does give me the itch to feel anyone can do this.
    However, I have read the stats and stories of failure. Also, I have led
    very few people into a matching success.

    At least I tried.

    It is a classic "lead a horse to water" story.

    No.... it is different.

    You can lead people to the water, but you can't make them swim, or like
    swimming.

  4. "Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:

    Quoted message said:


    Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    Realities of Dieting
    Gina Kolata
    ...
    I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.

    Among other things.....
    * "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    well over a thousand years.

    Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    in fact work for some portion of the population. A set of morons in
    that percentage take the idiotic view of "if it works for me it must
    work
    for everyone" and so there is an endless stream of people saying it.
    If it really were true, there wouldn't be any fat people. If anyone
    imagines there's even one poster to ASD/ASDLC who's never tried
    it (barring cross posters from the fat acceptance newsgroup) then
    they are idiots.

    Go as far back as you like, there have been a percentage of
    obese individuals in any society not starving. The percentage isn't
    even all that different until the recent century.

    That said, the recent increase in obesity as a percentage of the
    population and the occurrence of people with well over 100 pounds
    to lose is new. Morbid obesity levels were never high until now
    as far as I can tell.

    Quoted message said:

    * Banting and his "Letter on Corpulence" had massive detractors at the
    time.

    Just like Atkins now.

    Quoted message said:

    The medical community said there was no basis whatsoever for the
    working of the diet,

    Just like Atkins now. Except now studies are finally coming out that
    show these claims are objectively false. In fact once insulin was
    discovered the first level basis came to be known. In 1994 with the
    discovery of leptin more of the basis has been discovered. The
    knowledge is snowballing.

    But knowing the mechanism has never been included as a mandatory
    part of the Scientific Method. As long as there are actions that
    produce predictable results (including statistically depictable
    results
    rather than certain results) and those results can be quantified and
    repeated experimentally, it is not necessary to understand the
    underlying mechanism. Following Banting/Atkins directions does in
    fact work and does work when done with control groups tracked in
    experimental studies. Any medical claim that it doesn't work shows
    ignorance of science. Medicine is indeed a practice and it is called
    that for a reason. Few doctors know how to apply science to their
    field.

    Quoted message said:

    and individulals penned poison pen letters against
    the giving up of those classic tasty carbohydrate foods.

    Just like Atkins now. Anyone who doubts that these foods trigger
    addictive behavior patterns just compare the poison pen letters we
    see on ASDLC with how smokers react when pressured to quit.
    There is an amazing resemblence to the reaction of pasta addicts
    and the reaction of tobacco addicts.

    Quoted message said:

    * Until recently, there has been very little scientific research on the
    mechanics or chemistry of weight loss.

    True and this is wonderful. Having a model for the chemistry involved
    means smarter processes can be suggested and tried and the
    results tracked. The Atkins process designed in the 1960s/70s is
    much better than could be explained before leptin was discovered,
    but it was stumbled upon by trial and error I think. Dr A tried
    stuff.
    He appears to have tracked the results and apparently tried to publish
    tabular data in the 1970s but was refused. He never again offered
    any of his data at all and there is little sign it even still exists.
    Should
    his raw data from the 1970s be available that would be wonderful.

    Quoted message said:

    * Whenever there is anything that is (temporarily) successful/popular,
    there is a renewed effort to replace it with something new, and this has
    gone on for about a century.

    Cycles of popularity. But you name the type of diet, it has had
    some adherents at all times. Low carb, low fat, low calorie, food
    combination, paleolithic ...

    My weightloss success does give me the itch to feel anyone can do this.
    However, I have read the stats and stories of failure. Also, I have led
    very few people into a matching success.

    At least I tried.

    It is a classic "lead a horse to water" story.

  5. "Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:

    Quoted message said:


    Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    Realities of Dieting
    Gina Kolata
    ...
    I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.

    Among other things.....
    * "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    well over a thousand years.

    Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    in fact work for some portion of the population.

    It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times over.

  6. jcderkoeing said:

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:

    Quoted message said:

    Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    Realities of Dieting
    Gina Kolata
    ...
    I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.

    Among other things.....
    * "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    well over a thousand years.

    Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    in fact work for some portion of the population.

    It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times over.

    Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.

    I thought that you would favor the concentration camp eidence.

  7. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jcderkoeing said:

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:

    >Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    >Realities of Dieting
    >Gina Kolata
    >...
    >I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.
    >
    >Among other things.....
    >* "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    >well over a thousand years.

    Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    in fact work for some portion of the population.

    It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times
    over.

    Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.

    Jim Blow has a weak mind if he can not adjust his dietary and exercise
    habits enough to reach
    his goals. A low carb diet can help curb appetite, but even that is not
    enough if Jim Blow
    is an idiot.

  8. jcderkoeing said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jcderkoeing said:

    "Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:
    >
    >
    >>Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    >>Realities of Dieting
    >>Gina Kolata
    >>...
    >>I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.
    >>
    >>Among other things.....
    >>* "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked for
    >>well over a thousand years.
    >
    >Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    >in fact work for some portion of the population.

    It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times
    over.

    Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.

    Jim Blow has a weak mind if he can not adjust his dietary and exercise
    habits enough to reach
    his goals. A low carb diet can help curb appetite, but even that is not
    enough if Jim Blow
    is an idiot.


    Lovely way to nudge into namecalling

    But, shouldn't you lose.

    You almost introduced the Nazi concentration camps as part of your argument.

    Herr der Koenig.

  9. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jcderkoeing said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    jcderkoeing wrote:

    >"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    >>On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    >>>Realities of Dieting
    >>>Gina Kolata
    >>>...
    >>>I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.
    >>>
    >>>Among other things.....
    >>>* "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked
    >>>for
    >>>well over a thousand years.
    >>
    >>Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    >>in fact work for some portion of the population.
    >
    >
    >
    >It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    >working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    >proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times
    >over.

    Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.

    Jim Blow has a weak mind if he can not adjust his dietary and exercise
    habits enough to reach
    his goals. A low carb diet can help curb appetite, but even that is not
    enough if Jim Blow
    is an idiot.


    Lovely way to nudge into namecalling

    But, shouldn't you lose.

    You almost introduced the Nazi concentration camps as part of your
    argument.

    Herr der Koenig.

    So you still feel that eating less and exercising more for weight control
    isn't possible, even though the opposite has been shown to be true. Why
    would that be? Do you have any evidence other than a fat acceptor told you
    so?

  10. jcderkoeing said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jcderkoeing said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    >jcderkoeing wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email hidden]...
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    >>>>Realities of Dieting
    >>>>Gina Kolata
    >>>>...
    >>>>I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.
    >>>>
    >>>>Among other things.....
    >>>>* "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked
    >>>>for
    >>>>well over a thousand years.
    >>>
    >>>Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    >>>in fact work for some portion of the population.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    >>working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has been
    >>proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many times
    >>over.
    >
    >Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    >intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.
    >

    Jim Blow has a weak mind if he can not adjust his dietary and exercise
    habits enough to reach
    his goals. A low carb diet can help curb appetite, but even that is not
    enough if Jim Blow
    is an idiot.

    Lovely way to nudge into namecalling

    But, shouldn't you lose.

    You almost introduced the Nazi concentration camps as part of your
    argument.

    Herr der Koenig.

    So you still feel that eating less and exercising more for weight control
    isn't possible, even though the opposite has been shown to be true. Why
    would that be? Do you have any evidence other than a fat acceptor told you
    so?

    I never said it wasn't possible. I said it didn't work - which is not
    the same thing at all.

    It is not an effective voluntary program for most people.

    It certainly works in concentration camps, Herr der Koenig.

    Bye, I will not reply further. I'm too old to bother.

    Jim

  11. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    jcderkoeing said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    jcderkoeing wrote:

    >"Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >
    >>jcderkoeing wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Doug Freyburger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >>>news:[email hidden]...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>On Sep 24, 6:56 pm, Jim <[email hidden]> reviewed:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Rethinking Thin: The New Science of Weight Loss - and the Myth and
    >>>>>Realities of Dieting
    >>>>>Gina Kolata
    >>>>>...
    >>>>>I have read the first few chapters and learned a lot.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Among other things.....
    >>>>>* "Eat less, Exercise More" is an ancient saying that hasn't worked
    >>>>>for
    >>>>>well over a thousand years.
    >>>>
    >>>>Pretty simple how that works - Eating less and exercising more does
    >>>>in fact work for some portion of the population.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>It does in fact work for all portions of the population. If it's not
    >>>working, then one is not eating less and exercising more. This has
    >>>been proven in laboratory conditions, and in concentration camps many
    >>>times over.
    >>
    >>Starvation is different than Joe Blow being able to adjust to low food
    >>intake in a modern world of cheap abundance.
    >>
    >
    >
    >Jim Blow has a weak mind if he can not adjust his dietary and exercise
    >habits enough to reach
    >his goals. A low carb diet can help curb appetite, but even that is not
    >enough if Jim Blow
    >is an idiot.

    Lovely way to nudge into namecalling

    But, shouldn't you lose.

    You almost introduced the Nazi concentration camps as part of your
    argument.

    Herr der Koenig.

    So you still feel that eating less and exercising more for weight control
    isn't possible, even though the opposite has been shown to be true. Why
    would that be? Do you have any evidence other than a fat acceptor told
    you so?

    I never said it wasn't possible. I said it didn't work - which is not the
    same thing at all.

    It is not an effective voluntary program for most people.

    Once again, because you are so very slow, it does work and is very
    effective, if you have even minimal brain function. By most people, you must
    mean yourself, and a few other nattering nabobs of negativity.

  12. "jcderkoeing" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    nattering nabobs of negativity.

    Oh my....we're movin on up!

  13. Roger Zoul said:

    "jcderkoeing" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    nattering nabobs of negativity.

    Oh my....we're movin on up!

    My JC kill filter is working wonderfully, Roger.

    My bad for not having reactivated the JC kill filter when I got back
    from my three month trip.

    Jim

  14. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    I got back from my three month trip.

    Jim

    Where did you go?

  15. Roger Zoul said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I got back from my three month trip.

    Jim

    Where did you go?

    I backpacked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Virginia.

    I ate over 500 grams per day of carbohydrates and lost some weight.

    It wasn't hard to gain it all back when the strenuous hiking ended. It
    wasn't possible to low carb the hike without precooking and dehydrating
    special food and mailing it to trail towns for pickup at the Post Office.

    I had to quit because a medical condition developed, or I might still be
    hiking - which was the original plan... about 6 months of backpacking.

  16. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I got back from my three month trip.

    Jim

    Where did you go?

    I backpacked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Virginia.

    Wow...cool. Do you live in Georgia?

    Quoted message said:

    I ate over 500 grams per day of carbohydrates and lost some weight.

    It wasn't hard to gain it all back when the strenuous hiking ended. It
    wasn't possible to low carb the hike without precooking and dehydrating
    special food and mailing it to trail towns for pickup at the Post Office.

    That an interesting way to do it. Never thought about doing something like
    that. Without an address, how do you retrieve things at alien POs?

    Quoted message said:

    I had to quit because a medical condition developed, or I might still be
    hiking - which was the original plan... about 6 months of backpacking.

    Sorry to learn of the medical condition. I hope it gets solved. I'd love to
    be able to do something of that magnitude, but I still have to work for a
    living. One day, though! 🙂

  17. Roger Zoul said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote

    >I got back from my three month trip.
    >
    >Jim

    Where did you go?

    I backpacked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Virginia.

    Wow...cool. Do you live in Georgia?

    No, I live in Iowa and a friend drove me to Springer Mountain GA which
    is the official southern start of the trail.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I ate over 500 grams per day of carbohydrates and lost some weight.

    It wasn't hard to gain it all back when the strenuous hiking ended. It
    wasn't possible to low carb the hike without precooking and dehydrating
    special food and mailing it to trail towns for pickup at the Post Office.

    That an interesting way to do it. Never thought about doing something like
    that. Without an address, how do you retrieve things at alien POs?

    You send it to yourself at General Delivery in a town along the trail.
    It is good to mark on the box "Hold For Thru-Hiker" or just "Hold For
    Hiker". The Postal Service folks are very nice about trying to help. You
    aren't supposed to be able to have a package held for more than 30 days,
    but many Post Offices are "hiker friendly" and stretch the rules for you.

    You can also send along a "Bump Box" of potentially needed supplies. You
    address it to yourself at a Post Office in a town. When you get there,
    if you don't need it and don't open it, you can forward it to yourself
    at the next spot for FREE. If you open it, then you need to pay postage
    to forward it to the next spot.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I had to quit because a medical condition developed, or I might still be
    hiking - which was the original plan... about 6 months of backpacking.

    Sorry to learn of the medical condition. I hope it gets solved. I'd love to
    be able to do something of that magnitude, but I still have to work for a
    living. One day, though! 🙂

    There are a lot of retired folks doing this. They have the time, money
    and if you retire early enough, they have the health. I met folks into
    their late 70's and one tough dirt farmer who was just over 80 who was
    finishing the whole hike in just his second season of hiking.

  18. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Wow...cool. Do you live in Georgia?

    No, I live in Iowa and a friend drove me to Springer Mountain GA which is
    the official southern start of the trail.

    Did you "enjoy" the oppressive heat or is Iowa similar in that regard?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I ate over 500 grams per day of carbohydrates and lost some weight.

    It wasn't hard to gain it all back when the strenuous hiking ended. It
    wasn't possible to low carb the hike without precooking and dehydrating
    special food and mailing it to trail towns for pickup at the Post Office.

    That an interesting way to do it. Never thought about doing something
    like that. Without an address, how do you retrieve things at alien POs?

    You send it to yourself at General Delivery in a town along the trail. It
    is good to mark on the box "Hold For Thru-Hiker" or just "Hold For Hiker".
    The Postal Service folks are very nice about trying to help. You aren't
    supposed to be able to have a package held for more than 30 days, but many
    Post Offices are "hiker friendly" and stretch the rules for you.

    You can also send along a "Bump Box" of potentially needed supplies. You
    address it to yourself at a Post Office in a town. When you get there, if
    you don't need it and don't open it, you can forward it to yourself at the
    next spot for FREE. If you open it, then you need to pay postage to
    forward it to the next spot.

    Thanks for the info....My plan is to do some long cycling trips of this
    kind, so I think the notion will work well there too, I hope.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Sorry to learn of the medical condition. I hope it gets solved. I'd love
    to be able to do something of that magnitude, but I still have to work
    for a living. One day, though! 🙂

    There are a lot of retired folks doing this. They have the time, money and
    if you retire early enough, they have the health. I met folks into their
    late 70's and one tough dirt farmer who was just over 80 who was finishing
    the whole hike in just his second season of hiking.

    I have a buddy down in Atlanta who rides some 8000+ miles a year. He does it
    by being semi-retired and doing one or two longish rides during the week.
    I'd like to be pedalling well into my 80s, if possible.

  19. Roger Zoul said:

    "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Wow...cool. Do you live in Georgia?

    No, I live in Iowa and a friend drove me to Springer Mountain GA which is
    the official southern start of the trail.

    Did you "enjoy" the oppressive heat or is Iowa similar in that regard?

    The Georgia heat in mid April wasn't really heat, since it snowed and
    blew heavily on the first day hiking. The Iowa climate similarity is
    caused by the relatively high elevation of the trail in Georgia pretty
    much compensating for the more southern (warmer) latitude.

    Quoted message said:

    Thanks for the info....My plan is to do some long cycling trips of this
    kind, so I think the notion will work well there too, I hope.

    You might consider a trailer rather than panniers. I have used a child's
    trailer for bike camping and it works well. You can carry a lot of
    luxury goods or even several gallons of water for a dry camp at an
    undeveloped spot.

    The child's trailer gives you a lot of safety. With panneirs, cars will
    zip by inches from your handlebars, but if you are towing a child's
    trailer with one of those small orange flopping flags high up in the
    air, they move all the way over to the other side of the road when
    passing, or slow down if there is oncoming traffic.

    You get the rolling drag of two additional wheels, even if you pump them
    up to the maximum pressure for good quality tires. You also get a high
    frontal area for increased aerodynamic drag which can get real tiring in
    a strong headwind. So, it can be a negative experience to use a trailer.

    You can make some good large capacity panniers out of book backpacks and
    some hooks and elastic from the hardware store and some polycarbonate
    sheet to stiffen them up.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    There are a lot of retired folks doing this. They have the time, money and
    if you retire early enough, they have the health. I met folks into their
    late 70's and one tough dirt farmer who was just over 80 who was finishing
    the whole hike in just his second season of hiking.

    I have a buddy down in Atlanta who rides some 8000+ miles a year. He does it
    by being semi-retired and doing one or two longish rides during the week.
    I'd like to be pedalling well into my 80s, if possible.

    There is at least one book out devoted to the older cyclist. So, it is a
    popular and doable thought.

  20. Jim said:
    Cubit said:


    My weightloss success does give me the itch to feel anyone can do
    this. However, I have read the stats and stories of failure. Also,
    I have led very few people into a matching success.

    At least I tried.

    It is a classic "lead a horse to water" story.

    No.... it is different.

    You can lead people to the water, but you can't make them swim, or
    like swimming.

    The saying is "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink,"
    so I think it's the same, unless I am missing something here. The point is
    that people and horses don't always do what is good for them, even if it is
    offered to them.

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