new chain always = new cassette?

"bruce edge" <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

If you carefully keep your chain clean and oiled, then yes, one cassette should for a few chains.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

-Bruce

I may be wrong, but i think if the chain is worn beyond use, it generally takes the cogs
teeth with it.
--
~Travis

travis57 at megalink dot net

bruce edge said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

-Bruce

changing chain is like changing the oil in a car - the more often you change it the longer the rest
of the drive train will last.

if you put a new chain on a worn cogset the chain simply wears to fit the cogs and it does it Very
quickly! put a new cogset on with a new chain and change the chain as soon as it shows signs of
wear. check with a 1foot metal rule place one end of the rule against a chain pin, strech the chain
tight - if you can see more than 1mm of pin exposed at the other end of the rule it's time for a
new chain.

bruce edge said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

-Bruce

Keep the chain cleaned and lubbed and it and the gears will last longer. Cleaning is very important
because the lube holds grit thrown up by the tire and turns it into grinding paste which grinds away
at the chain and gears.

Replace the chain when 12 links measures more than 12-1/16 to 12-1/8" (a new chain'll measure 12"😉.
I usually get 3 chains to a cassette, granny, and middle chainring (the big one lasts a bit longer,
sometimes the granny lasts less 🙂).

Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.

David

James Connell said:

bruce edge said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
always do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

-Bruce

changing chain is like changing the oil in a car - the more often you change it the longer the
rest of the drive train will last.

if you put a new chain on a worn cogset the chain simply wears to fit the cogs and it does it Very
quickly! put a new cogset on with a new chain and change the chain as soon as it shows signs of
wear. check with a 1foot metal rule place one end of the rule against a chain pin, strech the
chain tight - if you can see more than 1mm of pin exposed at the other end of the rule it's time
for a new chain.

I always get the burrs growing off the sides of the teeth of my cassette before the chain shows any
wear. Do XTR cassettes have harder teeth than XT? The XT ones really seem to be made of cheese.

-Bruce

The trick is to clean and lube often and replace the chain *BEFORE* it's worn.

altsports.nuvisionmedia.netaltsports.nuvisionmedia.netOpen ↗

"bruce edge" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

-Bruce

In article said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They always
do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the cassette's
teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let replacing
the chain go on for too long.

Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the wear
on a new cassette.

Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.

Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
from now on.

Van

--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.

This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth, distributing
the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains you rotate, once
the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of both sets of cogs
(chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't continue to get reasonable
wear once the chain is stretched...

Cheers - Adam...

Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far I
still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of chains,
still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new one, so I
just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at all. The
chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not shift under
load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other week or 200
miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two chains after each
other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :-)

/Leo

Van Bagnol said:

In article said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
always do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let
replacing the chain go on for too long.

Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.

Quoted message said:

Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the
wear on a new cassette.

Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.

Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
from now on.

Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect? I clean my chain with one of those park scrubby
things every week, and lube it.

I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence over being nice to my
drive train.

I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb mode.
Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.

-Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Rohlof and Park tools make nice tools to measure chain wear... If worn, replace and enjoy more life
from your cassette. However, it could be cheaper to just continue the use of the (worn) chain and
then replace the cassette AND chain if it starts "slipping". (Note that the chain rings on the
cranks might be wearing out faster that way as well)

Caspar

"bruce edge" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Van Bagnol said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

old cassette. They always do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs
on the side of the cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a
couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the past you let replacing the chain go on for too long.

Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.

Quoted message said:

Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a

worn

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

chain will hasten the wear on a new cassette.

Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.

Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
from now on.

Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect? I clean my chain with one of those park scrubby
things every week, and lube it.

I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence

over

Quoted message said:

being nice to my drive train.

I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb
mode. Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.

-Bruce

"Leo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a
week right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll
wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.

This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth,
distributing the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains
you rotate, once the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of
both sets of cogs (chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't
continue to get reasonable wear once the chain is stretched...

-8<- snip ->8-

Quoted message said:

Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far
I still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of
chains, still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new
one, so I just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at
all. The chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not
shift under load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other
week or 200 miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two
chains after each other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :-)

Hi Leo,

I reread my post, and I didn't express what I was trying to get across very well...

I agree that you can extend the life of the cassette by rotating chains, but what you can't do is
reduce the rate of wear on a cassette once a chain is stretched - I was specifically objecting to:
"I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear
with the chain". Once the chain is that worn, the cassette will get chewed at the same rate, no
matter how many chains are being rotated.

Thinking about it, I suppose moving a newer chain onto a worn cassette, which effectively has a
longer pitch, would help to relieve stress on the teeth but only if the link length matched the
current (worn) pitch of the cassette. Also, you'd be at much greater risk of chain suck with well
worn cogs and a newer chain.

I totally agree that rotating chains can increase the life of the cassette. Good chain maintenance
can dramatically increase the life of chains (and hence cassette). Chain rotation by itself won't
increase the (working) life of a chain, though. Replacing chains (which, let's face it, are pretty
cheap in comparison to chainrings and cassettes) before they stretch will achieve the same thing.

Cheers - Adam...

Adam said:

"Leo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Adam" <[email hidden]> wrote "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>Another approach is to rotate between 3 chains. I'm trying this now. I switch chains once a week
>right after I clean the old one. I'm hoping that I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the
>chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear with the chain.

This won't help the cogs much - that is, they will degrade at the same rate once your chains are
stretched. The key, as someone else said, is to replace the chain before it gets streched too
much. The problem is that as the chain stretches, it pulls on fewer and fewer teeth, distributing
the load less and thus wearing them faster and faster. No matter how many chains you rotate, once
the chain stretches, you will get this disproportionate wear on the teeth of both sets of cogs
(chainset and cassette), most noticably on the smaller ones. You can't continue to get reasonable
wear once the chain is stretched...

-8<- snip ->8-

Quoted message said:

Actually, that works really fine. I rotate 2 chains, been doing this on my bike since 1999. So far
I still run the same rings(XT from -99) in front and I'm on my second rear cassette using a second
pair of new chains. The old cassette is still used on my winter bike with the first pair of
chains, still rotating them. The chainwear wasn't noticeable, I compared the old ones to a new
one, so I just mounted the old chains with a new Deore crankset on the winterbike, no problems at
all. The chain stretch is minimized thanks to four things: 1. Keep your chain clean 2. Do not
shift under load 3. High cadense, as often as possible. 4. Rotate two(or three) chains each other
week or 200 miles. I estimate the lifespan of two rotated chains to be better than using two
chains after each other, but that's only what I think, give it a try and be amazed... :-)

Hi Leo,

I reread my post, and I didn't express what I was trying to get across very well...

I agree that you can extend the life of the cassette by rotating chains, but what you can't do is
reduce the rate of wear on a cassette once a chain is stretched - I was specifically objecting to:
"I'll get even more miles because I'll wear the chains beyond the 12-1/8", and the gears will wear
with the chain". Once the chain is that worn, the cassette will get chewed at the same rate, no
matter how many chains are being rotated.

Thinking about it, I suppose moving a newer chain onto a worn cassette, which effectively has a
longer pitch, would help to relieve stress on the teeth but only if the link length matched the
current (worn) pitch of the cassette. Also, you'd be at much greater risk of chain suck with well
worn cogs and a newer chain.

I totally agree that rotating chains can increase the life of the cassette. Good chain maintenance
can dramatically increase the life of chains (and hence cassette). Chain rotation by itself won't
increase the (working) life of a chain, though. Replacing chains (which, let's face it, are pretty
cheap in comparison to chainrings and cassettes) before they stretch will achieve the same thing.

Cheers - Adam...

Actaully, I was after something even simpler. For the last too many chains and miles, I've gotten
3 chains to a cassette, small, and middle chainring. I've kept the chains clean and lubbed and
replaced them at 12-1/16 to 12-1/8" wear. What happens is that I take a working, but worn chain
off and the new one skips on the cassette and the middle CR and sucks on the small. So, I replace
those parts.

NOW, I'm going to use 3 chains with the same care, in rotation. But, I'm going to let them run until
the chains break, stop shifting, or all skip. I can't help but get more miles since the gears and
chains will be worn to the same spacing, so skipping is unlikely and chain suck from shorter spacing
on a worn gear is also not an issue. I do expect shifting problems or chain suck from worn teeth to
develope -- but, I expect this to happen several k-miles longer than I used to get out of the same
components because I'm not mixing new with worn.

David

In article said:

Van Bagnol said:

In article said:

Seems like no matter how often I change chains, they don't mesh with the old cassette. They
always do that quasi-shifting [censored] under a load. I know it's from the burrs on the side of the
cassette's teeth, but shouldn't you be able to get a cassette to last a couple of chains?

I'm using XT 9sp cassettes with sram chains.

If the cassette's teeth are already worn, it appears that at some time in the past you let
replacing the chain go on for too long.

Nope, new cassette bought 3 months ago with new chain.

Quoted message said:

Worn cassette teeth will accelerate wear on a new chain. Likewise, a worn chain will hasten the
wear on a new cassette.

Give up and buy a new cassette. Check your chainrings for wear also and replace if necessary.

Start fresh. Make a promise to yourself to keep the entire drivetrain clean and well-maintained
from now on.

Jeez why does everyone assume it's from neglect?

Sorry, but you did call it an "old" cassette your post.

It's developed burrs. That's a signal to replace it. In any case, if the cassette teeth are worn,
it's going to hasten wear on whatever chain is on it, new or not, and a bad chain will start to wear
the chainrings, new or not.

Quoted message said:

I try to shift nicely, but making a short steep climb takes precedence over being nice to my
drive train.

I think the stand `n mash doesn't help either. That's my preferred long fire road grind climb
mode. Seems easier to keep my breathing under control when I'm standing at a low cadance.

Really torqueing the cranks, huh? That could do it. If you're using granny in the front, try
switching to the middle ring and ride a lower gear in the back. That reduces chain tension and
the larger back cog will distribute the chain force over more teeth. Failing that, don't use XT
next time.

I have XT 9-speed cassettes and a Sachs/SRAM chain that's about a year old. So far the setup's
lasted me with no chain stretch.

Van

--
Van Bagnol / v a n at wco dot com / c r l at bagnol dot com ...enjoys - Theatre / Windsurfing /
Skydiving / Mountain Biking ...feels - "Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng paniginip" ...thinks - "An
Error is Not a Mistake ... Unless You Refuse to Correct It"